Has anyone in central CA had success growing Eng. Hawthorne?

I was tired of buying Hawthorn berries for tea, and decided to grow my own. I ordered a seedling from Horizon Herbs, and planted it in a wine barrel. It's not doing well, though, and I'm not sure whether it can be grown in my area, zone 9, or whether it's simply to hot for it here. I'm also not sure as to what type of soil it prefers...has anyone here had success with growing it, and if so, how did you grow it? Thank you.


This message was edited Jun 6, 2007 12:42 PM

I wouldn't know an English hawthorn from any other hawthorn, but there is someone in my neighborhood who has a couple of some sort of hawthorn growing as street trees. You get a bit hotter than we do though so that could make a difference but honestly that shouldn't be showing up yet, it's just barely getting into summer so I'm sure an established hawthorn could easily deal with the temperatures you're having now.

There are a couple other things that could be going on though. A wine barrel sounds like an awfully big container for a little seedling, it's generally better to move up one pot size at a time as the plant grows, otherwise if you have a big huge container and a tiny plant, its roots can't possibly take up all the water that's being held there in the soil and it becomes much easier to overwater because there's always water there sitting around.

Seedlings are also going to suffer more from heat/sun than an established plant so that could be the problem too. If I were you, I'd repot it in something smaller for now, and keep it somewhere that it's protected from sun during the hottest part of the day and see if it does any better.

The other possibility is if the place you ordered it from was growing it in a greenhouse or something (or even if they are just in a very different climate than you), it may not be used to the sunlight, temperatures, and lack of humidity that it's experiencing now. Sudden changes like that can be stressful for a plant so you need to work them up to it gradually. When I get new plants, I always keep them in a shady area for a while and mist them every day since many of the nurseries I order things from are in a humid part of the country, then if they're looking good after about a week I'll start cutting back on the misting and move them to an area where they start to get a bit more sun, then gradually work them to no misting and whatever amt of sun they're supposed to have.

Thank you...I will try moving it, into a slightly more shaded spot. This last entire week has had 90+temps.....
This seedling actually wasn't that small when I rec'd it, (about 2' or so). I only planted it in the barrel temporarily, with the thought of putting it into the ground later this year. I'd heard that it grows a long tap root which doesn't like to be crowded...hence the barrel. (Plus I don't have another container that's smaller:). I only water when the soil is dry to the depth of an inch, but I think I understand what you mean about downsizing the pot. Will see about getting a smaller pot next payday...
What I'm mostly interested in is what type of soil would this tree require? Also, is it diocious?
I suspect I may have picked a tree unsuitable for my climate; I haven't seen one anywhere in my area...but I thought I'd try growing one anyway.

I don't know how big your barrel is, maybe it's not that bad. When you said seedling I was picturing something really small and it sounds like this is a bigger seedling than what I'd imagined, so depending on how big the wine barrel is it may not be the end of the world. I'd wait for it to be dry a bit farther down than an inch before you water though, especially if the container's a bit on the large side for the plant you want to be really careful on the watering.

As far as soil--as long as it's in a container, I'd give it regular good-draining potting mix same as you would for any other plant, I don't think it has any special needs in that regard. And when you plant it in the garden, I would plant directly in your native soil, others may disagree with me on this and tell you to amend the planting hole, but especially if you have clay soil, that can create a "bathtub" effect and you basically drown the roots. And even if you get lucky and don't drown the tree, its roots will want to stay in the nice amended soil rather than going out into your clay, and then the tree will effectively become potbound in the hole which is also not good. For trees I always shake off as much of the container soil as possible and plant it in my native soil as-is. I would also recommend waiting until fall to plant it, that's a good time of year to plant things here, and the middle of summer is an awful time to plant things so I definitely wouldn't recommend it.

The caveat with all my advice here is that I have never grown a hawthorn of any sort and I'm not familiar with them except that I would recognize them if I saw one blooming, so all my advice is basic advice that I would give on any tree, but if by some chance hawthorns have special needs I wouldn't know about those. I don't think they're dioecious by the way, when I see them sold I've never noticed anything that would suggest that so I'm assuming they're not.

Thank you, again, ecrane3. Actually, it sounds like pretty good advice to me, especially that part about not planting it in totally amended soil. I have more sand than clay, where I live, so some compost is in order, but I'll go easy on it.
And no, right now is definitely not the time to plant shrubs, I should wait til fall, in this case. I believe this plant is native to Europe, and would therefore much prefer a cooler climate....or at least one a few zones cooler. If it survives the infernally hot summer we usually have here, I'm planting it out this November, when it starts to cool off, here in central CA.

I will keep my fingers crossed that it makes it for you! We had temps of 115 here during that heat wave we had last summer and the trees down the street from me came through it fine so I think it's definitely got a chance. When you plant it in the garden I would also consider finding a spot for it where it'll get sun in the morning and maybe early afternoon, but is shaded during the hottest part of the day, when you live in a hot climate some plants that say they need full sun will fry if they really have full sun, but if you give them a bit of shade in the afternoon then they do just fine.

What is an "English Hawthorn"? I'm in England, and there's no such thing!

There are two species of hawthorn native here:

Common Hawthorn Crataegus monogyna
Midland Hawthorn Crataegus laevigata

If you want a hawthorn better adapted to California's climate, try one of the Mediterranean species such as Crataegus azarolus. This also has the advantage of larger, more palatable fruit.

Resin

If you believe Plant Files, English hawthorn is C. laevigata
http://davesgarden.com/pf/adv_search.php?searcher%5Bcommon%5D=English+hawthorn&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&search_prefs%5Bsort_by%5D=rating&images_prefs=both&Search=Search

Hi Ecrane,

That's an error; here's a more authoritative source: http://flood.nhm.ac.uk/jobj/runjava.jobj?java=ctol.CTOLServer&method=printNamePage&accountref=987&NAMEID=6697

Resin

Aren't we just having a bit of a communication problem? There would be no reason for you in the UK to call it by a common name, "English" hawthorn, since the common name in your country is "Midland" hawthorn. If the people here called it "Midland" hawthorn, folk might think it's common to Midland, Texas. LOL. Since people may have seen it growing well in the UK, they may have chosen a shortcut to honor the place they viewed it, hence "English" hawthorn. ""tomayto, tomahto". There does seem to be agreement on the botanical name.
Peace.

I don't think there really are any "authoritative" sources when it comes to common names, the same plant will often have different common names even in different parts of the US and the number of names is only going to expand as you look at other countries. I don't think there's really ever been much of an attempt to standardize common names, that's why we have Latin names so that everyone can know exactly which plant is being talked about (although sometimes those aren't clear either--but at least they're better!)

Ok, Resin. Yes, in the interest of successful plant culture, I should try a local variety, but would like to give both European Crataegus cultivars (monogyna & laevigata) a try first. I'm a European import myself, and have a weakness for things familiar. ( I generally add local varieties later, and hedge my bets.)
Peony, someone once said, "What's in a name? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet", or something to that effect. I suppose we can always stick to botanical nomenclature...(and probably should, in the interest of international harmony?) but I'm not that well versed in it, and often don't have the time to look things up. Will work on it. Nice to meet you, too.
Cyra
-

PS...Thank you all for the advice, link, and for being available to ask. The link is especially handy, as now I can try to understand botanical terms...seems I've had a lot of them backwards:)

Hi Ecrane,

Well, the fact of the matter is that plant is sold all over the place here as English Hawthorn. Sorry if you feel that's inappropriate but I'm not the one who gave it that name. Whether it's appropriate or not, there's really no controlling what people decide to use as a common name for a plant, and since there's no rhyme, reason, or scientific background for common names, they really can't be regulated, standardized, etc. So I stand by my statement that you can't have an authoritative source on common names.

Cyra, I don't advocate the sole use of botanical labels for plants - I think that's a bit silly and smacks of gardener elitism. If one uses a botanical label, why can't one add a common name. Most of us purchase and discuss plants in this country on the basis of common names. My point above was to basically say, "Who cares what common name attaches to a plant?" Even if there are differences and sometimes misunderstandings, through civil discussion, good and honorable people can reach a common understanding. My point was exactly what you noted with "A rose by any other name..." Good gardening!
rj

Well, Peony, I don't think I'm particularily elitist. I'm more a practical sort, -I go with whatever works. If I wish to communicate something, it helps to speak the language understood by the other party. ("When in Rome, do as the Romans do", and all that....)
If a Hawthorn is called "English" locally, and I'm purchasing from a local, I'll call it that, so that they'll understand what it is I want. If they use a botanical name, then I'll refer to it by that, if I know it, and if not, I'll look it up, or ask someone knowledgeable, for assistance.
If I'm buying a plant from another country, I'll try to refer to it in the same way that people local to where I'm buying the plant do, or the botanical name, whichever is more easily understood.
IMO, life's too short to spend it haggling details, I'd rather be playing in the dirt:)
Cyra

When I lived in New Mexico I successfully grew 3 kinds of hawthorn -
English Hawthorn - Crimson Cloud
Russian Hawthorn
Lavalle Hawthorn

Of these, the Russian hawthorns and the english did the best, I had a problem with fire blight with the Lavalles

Summer temps were often in the 100's and in the winter could drop to -20. I got good haws on all of these but the best on the Lavalles.

My soil was pretty sandy and I had to amend the dickens out of it with organic material.

I think you might want to try the Russian hawthorn, they grew well and were pretty tough in an environment that could be challenging.

Roger

Thank you, Roger. I will probably try all three. I've heard of Hawthorns being succeptable to blight; is there any treatment for this? Or does one remove that plant?
If I succeed with one variety, I will try with others, next. I'm growing them for haws, for personal use; and hopefully for my feathered visitors to enjoy, as well. Of course, I'll appreciate the flowers, in late spring, too...
Cyra

This message was edited Jun 11, 2007 9:31 AM

I have the 'Paul's Scarlet'.
It does good so far; has been in the ground for a few months, but it needs water every two days or it gets droopy. Little roots grow slowly.
In my neighbourhood there are many English Hawthorns, and they don't seem to be plagued by anything at all.
Christie

The Lavalle that had fire blight had to be removed. A second Lavalle was doing OK but I would worry that it too might become infected. If there is a successful treatment I am unaware of it but then I don't know a lot of things!

All of these put on a nice show in the spring. The Lavalles have large red haws that are interesting when the leaves fall. The Crimson Cloud probably has the smallest/fewest haws but is a beautiful small tree. When I bought it it was sold as a Paul's Scarlet but when it bloomed out the next spring it was an obvious Crimson Cloud. Even so, a lovely tree.

Roger

(Thank you, all..-C)

i think the hawthorn trees are in the rose family along with apples, so if you can grow roses and apples why not?

They are in the same family as roses and apples. But just because things are in the same family doesn't mean they'll grow in the same conditions. You'll even find lots of things that are in the same genus but different species and they like completely different conditions.