Thank you Gail! :o)

hee hee ... I'm afraid I'd have one hand trying to cut the stuff and the other in the Pop Corn Bowl! :)

lLOL.. yes well innthat case do be sure to rinse it in a collander afterwards & wash your hands too. :)

Mmm popcorn... now I'm hungry......


padding off to the kitchen in search of nuratishment.

MsC

:) I LOVE THIS GARDEN & ALL THE BEAUTIFUL, WONDERFUL, FUN PEOPLE HERE!!

OH YES... there are so many great folks at DG but this forum has always been my favorite lil home away from home...


MsC

I had to dig around to find Amy's post!

yup! I agree! And I just bumped up the thread on seedlings and jostling the roots every 2 weeks. The advice comes from Dale Martens.


I haven't heard that one is better than the other....


I think I am worse than you. I got tired of taking the bag of soil from the microwave to the freezer to cool it down faster..!!!! I now bake a bucket-full, and then store it in bags or a bin or something (sealed).



Well, for me, it isn't all that surprising. It's only one of many things I can't do. Others include keeping philodendrons and peace lilies alive....



It is said to have some effect in preventing damping off (which is bacterial) in seedlings. I'm not sure that it would have enough of an effect to be helpful when mixed in with the soil. (Remember it also turns sour in a few months.) I've been meaning to mention that you might try adding some hydrogen peroxide to your watering. (I think some other people add a drop of bleach or Physan20 - same idea.)

So True! My two favorite forums are this one and the Houseplant Forum! I lurk a bit on others occasionally, but these two are my favorites. And, I do visit the ID Forum sometimes ... and the Beginning Houseplant forum ... and the Prayer Request Forum .... and the Daves Garden Forum .... and the Florida Gardening Forum .... oh yeah, and also the Trading Forum! Once in awhile I also go to the Home Talk section and check out Trash To Treasure!


:) I guess I'm just all over the place!

Isn't it strange how some of us have a lot of trouble with some plants that do so well for others? I have great luck with Peace Lily's usually ... and Philo's some do real well for me while others don't like my house at all!

I remember reading about folks baking their potting mix .... never did it though because I think someone said it stinks up the house!
:) Thought about some night when I don't feel like cooking dinner to put a pan of soil mix in the over and when hubby comes home from work, tell him it's dinner! hee hee .... I'm so bad! Not really! My husband of 38 years is the Greatest! So easy to please! He would go get take out for us if that ever happened. I cook dinner most every day, but then I'll go a stretch where we eat out or get take out!

I used to bake a lot for Pete's Students, our Basketball team at the University, Cheerleaders, Fans, Friends, Family - but have kinda gotten away from it lately. I wonder what people would say if I told them I've been baking again and tell them I'm baking dirt?!

Key great reminder ... the LFS is great for STARTING things in but not necessarily GROWing them in long term.

Now saying that ...I wonder why I don't seem to have any trouble with it " souring" in my terrariums??? Mmmm..maybe MsC should take the top off & give one a sniff??? Mmm nope on second thought I'll take Key's word on it.:)

Lin you do seem to get around a bit but that's great. I watch all the forums & lurk on some. When I first joined DG I was everywhere too but when the AV forum started that was it for me.. I almost come here exclusively .

Now that we're back home & I acn grow more outdoor plants I may venture off???

MsC

This message was edited Jun 2, 2007 9:53 PM

Real soil will stink, but peat mix (soil-less) does not.... Moisten it first, and bake at a low temp. I do about 200/225 for 2-3 hours (sometimes overnight. LOL)

Mmmm... do i really have to use the oven??? It seems like "cooking" to me??

Now, just for conversation sake~ I never did understand the "cook the soil ", Key... why if it is Soiless does it need to be baked, nuked or otherwise prepared?? I thought that was the whole idea of going soiless???

Thanks for a lil education on the subject.

MsC

Ok, someone refresh my memory as to what exactly soil-less mix is! Is it just a combination of perlite/vermiculite/peat? Or what?

well I am a 100% indoor gardener, so I don't know what soil is. Soil is that dirt outside - has lots of other stuffs in it, like compost and worm stuff and things like that. The mix we usually use is peat-based. Peat, as in peat bogs. To peat, we add various amendments like vermiculite and perlite.

Some gessie growers prefer to use 50% topsoil type soil (real soil) and 50% soil-less mix. I think the reasons for this are mostly: (1) peat is hard to rewet; (2) soil has other nutrients; (3) peat is acidic.

To that we can say: (1) wick your pots, add water crystals, add dish soap to your water (but not all at the same time); (2) use a fertilizer with trace minerals; and (3) add lime or buy pre-pH adjusted mix.

Why do we sterilize this stuff?

Well.... if my peat mix is compressed, I may not. But if it is not compressed, it is usually is pre-moistened, and there are holes in the bag to allow for breathing, which means there are fungus spores and mushrooms spores and gnat eggs in the bag. When I sow seeds, I will get that green gunk spreading across the surface, or mushrooms, or gnats, or all of the above and more. Supposedly there are other things that can be in there that can lead to root rot etc.

But for me, it basically comes down to the green gunk, mushrooms and gnats.......

With sterilized mix, I can sow my seeds, seal the bag/box airtight, and leave it for as long as I need to. Sometimes seeds take half a year to germinate, so this is a very good thing. If I don't sterilize, that green goo smothers the surface in about 1-3 months, depending.

Ah there you are ... thought you left us alone in our thoughts..

Ok... so I got that even soiless soil can have mushrooms,fungus and gnats in it..but then why not use just vermiculite for seeds???? No cooking involved?? (MsC is hoping for a Yes.. no cooking involved)

Oh & I do remember my mushroom caper in the terrariums... they were cute...weren't they???? Not!

Look at the pic ~ to the left of the word bubble to see the pretty lil yellow mushroom Key is refereing to.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1112918


MsC

This message was edited Jun 2, 2007 11:35 PM

roflol.

I am finally getting to laundry, so......

I have yet to do a huge pile of work that I brought home, and there are plenty of other things to do tomorrow. There is just not enough time....

I don't get vermiculite - as in, I don't understand it all that much. We had a nice presentation - very informative - about soil mixes last month and the speaker said use at most 10% vermiculite in your soil mix. OTOH, plenty of people use it to start seeds. (You can read more about vermiculite if you google something like vermiculite "cation exchange" and plants or something like that....)

I tried several mixes in my last batch of seeds. As a general rule, the peat mix sprouted first. The LFS sprouted next but out-grew the peat ones for most seeds. The vermiculite - well apparently this is not a good mix for me.... LOL. Next time I check the pots, I'll report back again.

In the past I've also tried a layer of milled peat (100%) as a top layer (seeds on top of the milled peat) which worked well. I also tried a layer of milled sphagnum - I ended up with more live sphag than whatever I was trying to grow.

By my experience notwithstanding, many people do sow seeds on vermiculite. It should work. So should a chopped LFS mix. Or perlite+chopped LFS.



Could be that the perlite and charcoal do a good job of extending the life. Straight LFS starts to compact, and once it does it stays wet all the time (assuming you water it) - I think it sours pretty quickly at this stage.

RFLMBO.. yes I have grown plenty of LFS in my terrariums but it does have a nice green color to it when everything else is dormant/dead...Looks like an intentional planting of lil green fluff...

Well, I have nothing better to do now ... all dogs are kenneled quietly, all birds feed, hubby out town & my chores are done! :)
So wanna send me your work & I can help with it too..lol
Next week the grandson will be here & I won't have a minute to myself..


It's great you have so much info to share cause alot of times I thinkwe gardners do things but don't reallly understand why or the end results...makes a big difference when you can see the info all together make an "informed choice " I think.

so much is trial and error though, isn't it?

And if we have another option, why not try it?

I mean, it's not like NZ LFS is the most local of potting media. What other potting media do I have on hand... hmm... Diatomite, charcoal, hummus, bone meal, dolomitic lime, some other amendment I add to seedlings, crushed oyster shell, expanded clay pellets, coconut husk chips, pea gravel, styro peanuts, granite chips, tree fern slabs and shreds, osmunda fiber, water polymer crystals, and there's probably more...

Granted, much of this is for the orchids, but no reason not to use them for other plants.

I'm just thankful I don't have the option of adjusting climate control for the plants :P

LOL.. well an adjusting climate control is kinda like growing them in the house as houseplants??? Never mind that's a whole other story...

I can't type anymore cause I just got an error mesage that said I edited too much & to try again tomorow..lol
Mmmm maybe I should take that typing course again?

MsC

we should give Amy a break anyway. She's got some catching up to do!

There's an orchid grower out in SoCal who has multiple greenhouses, each controlled for a certain climate suitable for certain orchids... lol lol.

For 3 years now, I've been meaning to set up a terrarium by the AC vent so that the temp stays cool for some cloud forest types... not sure I'll ever get around to it....

See ya on Old Bloomers... thanks amy for letting us kinda hijack your thread...
Hugs MsC

Wow! Have I got some catching up to do! LOL I dragged myself away from the great discussion to have dinner with the family and spend time with my working-two-full-time-jobs-for-the-moment husband and y'all solve everything from the mystery of Santa Claus to world peace! LOL I love it! I saw several things I want to comment on, so I'll be sending several posts in a row, I'm sure. :o) Sure wish I'd been here to join in on the conversation. Maybe tonight... :o) Off to get a few things done...then I'll be back!

Alrighty, here we go...

I love that, MsC! And if that's the case, then I'm *much* more of a real gardener than I ever dreamed! LOL

I always use warm water to water with, so that's not my problem. After doing quite a bit of reading about crown rot, I've decided that is almost certainly what happened to my AVs. The Optimara site states, regarding crown rot, "Do not let the soil dry out completely before watering. Repeated, sudden changes in the availability of water can cause the same effects as overwatering." I'd let them get bone dry, then drown them, then not water again til they were bone dry. Never on purpose, of course, I'm just quite flighty. The self-watering pots are too expensive for me, so I don't have any of those, but I made one out of a Sprite bottle (talk about high-class! LOL) just to see if it would help. Sure enough, the AV in it doubled in size in no time and bloomed as pretty as I could ever wish for. I set it inside a pretty container to hide the "redneck self-watering pot" and no one is any the wiser! I told my husband to save all his water and Sprite bottles from work, so I've got a dozen or so under the sink. I might work on a few of those today.

Lin, it sounds you might be having some damping off issues with your seedlings. I'm far from an expert on seed-starting, but have read multiple times that putting hydrogen peroxide in the water can help prevent that. I don't know that it would help, but, mixed in the right proportions, it couldn't hurt.

Ki, if I hadn't known that unwatered Strep was yours, I would have thought it was one of mine! Thankfully, I've found them to be somewhat forgiving even in such a state.

And now that I've read your cautionary note on LFS, I'm thinking I should pull that Petrocosmea back out of it and chop it up (the LFS, not the Pet!). You've probably said that a million times and I had forgotten it. I'll throw in some perlite for good measure, too.

As far as charcoal is concerned (y'all should love this one), I tried to find it at the local garden centers, such as they are, and HD with no luck, so I went to Lowe's. Couldn't find it there, either, so I asked one of the employees in the garden center about charcoal to mix in my potted plants. They told me all the charcoal is over by the grills! ROFL I just had to walk away... Guess that's something I'll need to order online.

Keyring, another question??? I have bags of soil-less mix like Sunshine,etc.....I haven't been using that....I just order AV mix from Optimara and mix with perlite.....would I be better off using the Sunshine and Metro soil-less mixes and bake them as you said?????

Ki, I have two large baking pans that I spread it out in as soon as I take it out of the microwave. I stir it around with a spoon to let the initial steam escape. By the time I get another bowl mixed up, put it in the microwave, and start a load of laundry (a neverending process around here) the first batch is cool enough to work with. When the second batch comes out of the microwave, I put the rest of the first batch in a second bowl, spread the second batch out in the pans, and restart the process. My only wait time is really between the first and second batches. If I were to prepare a bag ahead of time, I'd just lose the bag and have to start over anyway. LOL



Philos, I can grow; Peace Lilies, usually I can grow, but I get irritated with the whole drama queen, wilt-to-the-floor act. Same with Fittonias. I know you're thinking the Streps pull the same act, but they bounce right back. Peace Lilies and Fittonias always seem to suffer long-term from underwatering. I always think, "You wilted, I watered you, now get over it already..."



Mine, too, MsC, as you might have noticed from all the OT threads I post here. :oP I enjoy several others, but they're sort of like being at a friend's house - I'm comfortable there, but there's no place like home. :o) Besides, I think we're the chattiest bunch around, and I enjoy it so much!



I started nuking mine when I opened a bag of soiless mix and fungus gnats swarmed out at me. Then, the bag of perlite was full of mold and mildew. Is it necessary? I don't know. Perhaps those were just fluke bags that I happened to open at the same time, but it was enough to convince me. I can kill plants easily enough on my own, thank you, I don't need help! LOL Seeing that picture of that darling mushroom you grew makes me wonder, though! ;o)



There was no hijacking that I saw. I'm thrilled the thread has turned out to be so full of information. I'm constantly learning new things and I love when one small idea turns into a long, thorough discussion. It's like the two of you were saying, about informed choices and trial and error - we learn from one another. I really enjoy hearing about others' experiences with plants. I learn so much by contrasting and comparing my results with the results of others. And I guess I'm a science nerd at heart, because I love to experiment, try new plants, try new ways of growing plants or seeds or cuttings, and so on. Even if I kill something, I can reap some kind of information from it, so at the very least, I know what *not* to do next time. So, thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences! :o)

Gail, for what it's worth, I don't buy AV mix at all. Until recently, I used the regular Miracle-Gro potting mix and mixed perlite in it. I've just recently found a soilless mix that doesn't have fertilizer in it (like the MG does), so I've switched to it and am adding perlite to it, just like always, and really like it. Of course, I put in a bit of vermiculite to help hold some moisture, but I know you don't need the vermiculite. Certainly, take Ki's or MsC's or Snowrose's advice over mine, as they're much more successful than I am, but for what it's worth, that's my method. :o) You've got a lot of experience growing beautiful plants, so I'm sure if something wasn't working out like it should, you'd spot it in no time and be able to correct any small problems before they became big problems. See, I have a lot of faith in you, too! :o)

I am learning soooo much from you ladies, And, I Thank You All!

I wish I could find a soilless mix somewhere around my area ... haven't seen it anywhere! I know I can buy it on-line, but hate the thought of shipping on the amounts I'd be needing to buy. Right now I've been using Schultz AV Mix with lots of perlite added. Recently found some MG Oraganic that I've mixed lots of perlite with .... used it to repot some houseplants, might try it on an AV.


hee hee ... I have a Lily of some sort (can't remember the name right off hand) in a container on my deck and yesterday when I was moving everything out to get watered by the nice rain, I noticed two little mushrooms growing up in the pot! I just left them for the time being! I've found mushrooms on occasion in plants out there but not for awhile now. Sometimes we have them growing up in the lawn on the side of the house thats real shady!

Lin, did you see the thread about the Strep seedlings? Lots of good reading!
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/568313/

I know that Schultz makes a soil-less mix that everyone carries....I just cannot use Miracle Grow as it is a soil......waaay too heavy for houseplants for me....

Lin, I would guess that the AV mix you're using is a soilless mix. See if it lists the ingredients on the back. A soilless mix (definition here: http://davesgarden.com/terms/go/844.html ) is peat with one or more of the following mixed in: perlite, vermiculite, bark, sand. I'd say your mix falls within these guidelines.

Gail, the MG I was using was soilless, but yes, it's quite heavy. I never used it straight out of the bag for anything. This new kind is much lighter and fluffier, even before adding perlite. Can't remember the name of it...Garden Magic, maybe?

Okie Dokie
thanks

Another trick for damping off is to water with chamomile tea.

I've found bags of tiny charcoal locally, but I find it way tooo fine.....

And Gail, what works is what works.... I prefer to make my mix from locally available supplies - I go through quite a lot of it and I can't imagine ordering it online. As it is, I have to order almost all of my orchid mix online. In a pinch, I've even bought cactus mix and added dolomitic lime (which I had at home) to raise the pH and used it on the AVs.

What about aquarium filter charcoal? They may have bags of that at a pet supply store. If it would work, I'll check the next time we go to get dog food.

Good question about the aquarium charcoal .... I remember a few years back buying that to use for a terrarium because I could not find horticultural charcoal anywhere ... then I read it is not the same stuff - that aquarium charcoal shouldn't be used for plants!??!! I thought charcoal was charcoal. Since we have a 150 gal Marine Aquarium (Salt Water), I gave that charcoal to hubby to see if he could use it and finally found a nursery in Orlando that carried horticultural charcoal. Seems I found a web site about the difference. I will go see if I can locate it again! Back in a sec ....

Here's what one site says:


Filtering charcoal is not the same thing as horticulatural charcoal. Much of what is sold for aquariums is not a wood charcoal at all, but is made by a completely different process from bituminous coal, peat, lignite, hardwood, or animal bone, followed by further processing & chemical washes. It retains a great deal more water than does horticultural charcoal, & less oxygen. Unlike filtering carbon, horticultural charcoal is untreated & unprocessed, hence much more a "natural" product.

This message was edited Jun 3, 2007 2:49 PM


And ... I think I read somewhere that Horticultural Charcoal is made from wood in raw form, without coals and other additives.

This message was edited Jun 3, 2007 2:52 PM

Hmmm, interesting. Since that's the case, I guess that wouldn't work, then. Oh well, it was a nice idea. Thanks for all that information, Lin! I didn't know any of that!