Need suggestions for a compact ornamental tree.

I have a very small sliver of sun in my mostly shady yard that I would really like to put a small, decorative tree...probably an evergreen one. There is a tree growing there now that I'd remove, and that's where the new tree would go. Here is the catch: Like a lot of New England, we have a LOT of rcok ledge in the yard. I've landscaped around a lot of it that is exposed, but I don't know how much of it there is buried that I can't see. Possibly a lot, given the peculiar terrain of our yard. So, I do not know how deep a hole I can get in this particular spot before hitting solid ledge. I took a green wire plant support stake and poked it into the ground...seemed to hit rock at about ten inches, but without digging I don't know if those are loose rocks or solid. I know nothing about trees or what they require ...we have trees in the yard growing on ledge, but of course they all started from acorns or whatever. I'm not that patient, lol. So, given those conditions, is the possibilty of ledge a dealbreaker for planting something pretty like a little dwarf cypress? I'm open to any other suggestions and advice. I'm looking for something smaller than the tree that is there now- so maybe a couple feet wide by 2-4 feet high? Here is a pic. That little pine looking tree is the one I want to replace. It seems to be growing right up against the rock. I'm kind of trying a little half hearted mini rock garden thing next to it..just trying to take advantage of the little areas of sun that I have, I guess. The area is only shaded in the morning (sun rises from the other side of that rock), and then gets what I would consider full sun for the rest of the day (the areas to the immediate left and right of it are in shade, as you can see.)

That's a challenging site. I don't have much experience at all working in areas such as what you described. See if you can contact a member named Leftwood by d-mail and steer him to this thread. He rock gardens quite well and he should have some sort of a suggestion for you. Of course it would probably be a good idea to dig up that area to see what you are going to run into before choosing any plant.

The one plant that comes to mind for me for that area would be a Japanese Maple of all things and it isn't evergreen and I don't even know if that area would get enough sun or not for one of those even after you removed the small evergreen. Mine are growing in full sun but I've seen many photographed that seem quite fine growing in part sun.

Thanks for the response, Equilibrium. I had thought about Japanese Maple as well, because the airy-ness appeals to me..just not sure how hard it is to keep one small or how to select the right one, and also the potential issue of what's under the grass. I don't really care if it's not evergreen, because frankly, once the leaves drop and it gets cold out, I am an indoor sort of girl and really don't care what the yard looks like! Digging up the area is on my to do list, and maybe I'll ask for some thoughts in the Japanese Maple forum. I think it would get enough sun- it gets sun for probably 75% 0f the day.

I also thought about something in a container, but don't know what that entails for the winter.

There's a thread out there somewhere in which a member artfully insert planters into her landscape. I forgot her name but she's somewhere down south and the results of her pots being plugged here and there throughout her landscape are really show stoppers. I don't think outside of the box when it comes to landscape design. I'm just not artsy but I copied some of her ideas sticking a few containers out into my yard and I must admit they look really nice cropping out of nowhere. You see, I'd never given any thought to having a planter anywhere but on a patio or a stoop. Again, I'm not that creative.

I really think you should try to contact that member named Leftwood. I once saw a thread with photos of his troughs that he created that were spectacular.

I can go dig up the name of the nursery that sold me my Japanese Maple. You could call him on the phone and slam him with questions and I bet he'd come up with just the right Japanese Maple for you. I don't recall the name of the nursery or the name of the man because I don't normally order these types of plants but if you are interested, I would dig out contact information for you because I know he'd spend time with you. I didn't know we had a Japanese Maple Forum here. My how we've grown. Good place to start if you want information from other gardeners as opposed to a nursery.

I found the thread with the troughs-
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/722607/

Still looking for the thread in southern gardening I think on the planters in the landscape.

Thanks again, Equilibrium. I am an artist, but not a gardener! I just started last summer, so I would have to say I don't even understand the box well enough to think out of it, lol. But I'm trying to learn, which is why I'm here. The problem is that it is pretty overwhelming.

I started making hypertufa containers last year and use them dotted thruout my landscape as well. Mine are mostly round, and in my shady yard I have them planted with hosta, ferns, heuchera, etc. I thought about putting a little tree in one and then placing it on the spot in question, however, I don't know that I can deal with dragging it into the cluttered garage every year or whatever I would have to do in order for it to survive the winter. The perennials I used last year in the hypertufa containers I just planted in the ground at the end of the season.

I'm embarrassed to post this, because I'm sure it's all wrong and packed too tight, but I just put this together with some inexpensive stuff I found at a local gas station. I don't have a clue what I'm doing, and I don't know what to do with it at the end of the summer...probably just let the stuff die and consider them annuals?This is on my deck- again, one of the two or three spots where I actually have sun. So even though my yard is like a giant quarry, the amount of shade prohibits me from doing a lot of rock garden-y type stuff, I think. But I love the hypertufa because it fits in so well with the rock ledges we have.

Don't worry about hunting down that phone number for now. There is actually a pretty good nursery up here that I could probably get some advice from...and in the meantime I'll just do some more internet homework.

Beautiful trough. Maybe you better post that in container gardening or something. I think we have a forum like that don't we? I don't know much about annuals. I have to go running for help to a member who grows them professionally so those are out of my league. I kill annuals quite well if that counts for anything.

That trough is great! Our gas stations don't have anything like that. There's a thread in the Rock Gardening forum now called "Show Us Your Troughs", it's definitely worth a look:

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/722607/

Tee he, that was the exact thread that I was thinking about that I posted a link to above. You have good taste in troughs claypa.

OoPs... well, it is a great thread and bears repeating I guess. Sorry I can't offer any advice about the ledge, except it always amazed me how big Spruce trees will grow up there in a foot or two of soil.

Have you ever tried your hand at creating any troughs for yourself? I keep telling myself that is something I need to do one of these days.

I keep meaning to. There's an entire forum about hypertufa and concrete under the home talk tab with some good ideas. I probably have all the stuff too, but I still have to plant a few hundred perennial seedlings. Hopefully at least some will bloom this year.

My favorite trees in Maine were the Amelanchiers, maybe that would work for you, Noreaster. Also the Huckleberries that I never could identify, just brilliant red in the fall. It was hard to get to the berries before the critters though.

You guys should give it a try...mostly it's just messy, so you have to have some space for that, depending on how large you want to go. Plus you have to have patience for it to cure and all that before you can put it into use- wish I had started this year's projects earlier. I just made a mock millstone fountain out of it..I think technically you shouldn't use it for water features because of it's porosity, but I'm gonna take a chance that the fountain won't be in use often enough for it to be an issue. I like hypertufa because it looks more stonelike than regular concrete stuff. The hardest part for me as a woman is dealing with the 94 lb bags of Portland Cement.

Thanks for the tree suggestions, claypa- I will look those up.

I know you're right. I don't so much even mind the mess but it's just setting aside time to play with the process. It's always so much easier when there is someone around who has done this before. I guess I'm in the claypa camp- I keep meaning to.

Two things. You can always import some soil and plant on top of the rocks. If there is any space at all between the rocks, roots have an uncanny way of finding them. Just try to use soil that is similar in structure to your existing soil and try to mix the new soil into the existing as much as possible so that you don't create a hardpan. Secondly, Japanese maples can take a surprising and remarkable amount of shade.

Scott

I think she's got the equivalent of full sun and doesn't realize it- "I think it would get enough sun- it gets sun for probably 75% 0f the day." My Japanese Maple that is in "full sun" is only getting about 8 hours of sun a day.

Scott, I had thought of that as well, adding some more soil to the surface to create more depth. I just wasn't certain if there would still be a drainage issue if there is in fact a ledge plateau sitting under there...kind of the equivalent of a plant sitting in a pot with no drainage hole? Again, I'm not sure how these things work and what sort of root space a compact conifer or maple is gonna need.

Yeah, I think it's probably close to full sun...or as close as I get to it in this yard. I would guess it's in the sun from about 11:00 am or so to sunset

Okay, finally saw this thread. (By the way, I still have some pics of troughs to upload on that thread.) Like Scott says, roots just inherently find there way through cracks and crevices in rocks. Besides, that spruce you want to take out doesn't seem to be having a problem. Plants just adapt. Dwarf false cypress (Chamaecyparis spp.) would do fine. So many to choose from. The C. pisifera types are the easiest, and the threadleaf types of those are the easiest of all. A simple C. pisifera 'Filifera Nana', or 'Filifera Aurea Nana' would be good if you like that foliage type. There is a 'Filifera Aurea' (no "Nana") that would probably grow too large.

There are not to many other dwarf conifers that grow in tree form. Most are "bushy". Many dwarf Canada hemlocks would fit your needs, but I don't think I would recommend them as you have a nasty adelgid (insect) that seems to be taking a big toll on hemlock over there. There is a spruce, Picea abies 'Remontii' that would work well, but not at all common in commerce. Or perhaps a dwarf form of Swiss Stone pine (Pinus cembra). Many have a nice blue color. Japanese maples would be excellent too.

Thanks, Leftwood.

No, the spruce that is there is doing well...it seems to be coming out of the base of that rock, literally. I think I am leaning toward the dwarf false cypress because I do like the look of them and it's something I can go check out at local nurseries. I think I talked myself out of the Japanese Maple because I notice some of them just look a big ball when they mature, and I don't want that. I guess I could learn to prune, but I'm leaning towards as low maintenance as possible now, I guess.

I do have a small hemlock in another area and I know about the adeligid problem. What a crying shame that is, because I love hemlocks. I drive around town and see a lot- some look fantastic and lush and some look decimated. Is there anything I can do to protect my little hemlock or should I just continue to keep my fingers crossed?

if you ever get down to MA, there's a place in Littleton MA called 'Bonzai West' that has tons and tons of dwarf confiers and Japanese Maples.

Another non-tree plant that should do well in rocky soil is lowbush blueberry.