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Welcome back Kent!
Straw Bale Gardening (Part 12)
Welcome Back!!
How long is it neccesary to keep piling stuff around the potatoes? Do you just keep doing it, or do you eventually just let them grow? Mine need more again, and this will bring them to the level of the bales. Is that enough, or should I go higher? My pumpkins are crawling off the bales, can I give them a bed of hay to sprawl on? Leave them on the grass? Weed barrier cloth?. So many questions....
Margo
Welcome back Kent.....you are the king of strawbalers! those plants look wonderful!
...let me ask, do you have a large family, sell these things or donate them?....thats a HUGE garden!!!
Foggy
Thanks for the welcome back ya'll. I loved my vacation, but let me tell you, there's nothing like being in the good old U.S. of A!!!
Margo: I don't put anything around my potatoes. Once I made my row of straw as high as I wanted it, I planted my seed potatoes and let it go. I've read posts about adding to the potato row, but I never did that when I was "dirt" farming.
Anything that's going to run off the bales, I'd do something to prevent the grass from growing up in the vines. Papers, cloth, etc., your choice. Otherwise it'll really get "snaky" looking.
foggy: not sure about being the "King"; BB has about twice the # of bales it appears; he'll be the "King" this year for sure!
We can alot and give whatever is left to family and friends. I give the habaneros away to those who really like to turn up the heat. Jalapenos and cayenne are about as hot as I want to go.
By the way, a buddy said they froze their tomatoes, rather than can them. Anyone else froze their tomatoes? Sounds alot easier and quicker if you've got the freezer space.
Kent
This message was edited May 23, 2007 11:01 AM
When I first started "serious" gardening (enough harvest to last until the next one) I knew nothing about canning. I froze enough tomatoes to last about nine months. All I did was skin, bag and freeze. I used both resealable bags and vacuum sealed bags. They kept very well. When we had a power outage that lasted nearly a day - I decided that canning was the way to go. Now I mainly "can" and freeze when I just don't have the time - or only have a small quantity.
When I didn't have time to can I just rinsed the tomatoes, put them on a cookie sheet and froze them. Then put them in bags and used them however and whenever I wanted. So easy!! The only thing they aren't good for is fresh salads. Some people tried it when they were half frozen because they were still firm but I did not like them that way.
Jeanette
Kent:
Thanks for the compliment but you'll always be the "King" . Your plants look better. I'm having a real time with my eggplants. They are growing but the got hit by flea beetles so they don't look good. Finally treated them.
We can, freeze and dry our tomatoes. I agree with GreenAtHeart. If you start to get any volume you'll run out of space in a hurry! We either freeze them whole or chop them up and roast them with peppers and onions. Once all the water has evaporated, we run them through a food processor and voila, instant sauce. We then freeze that.
A lot of people don't dry the tomatoes but we do. We have gotten to the point where we refuse to eat tomatoes out of season. We have been rehydrating our dried maters and adding them to salads when we need to. Great taste!
BB
BB, what did you use on your eggplant? the flea beetle damage may look funny but it doesn't harm the plant or its production, so you needn't treat them in the future if you don't want to.
summerkid wrote;" the flea beetle damage may look funny but it doesn't harm the plant or its production,"
summerkid, how can that be?? They left my eggplants with leaves that were nothing but "lace", not really any leaf at all. I thought the beetles were gone, and the leaves began to grow again, but the little holes are starting all over again:((. You mean it will be the same whether I treat them or not? I'd rather not.....
Margo
I've never treated mine even though they look ratty. I'm strictly organic so learn to work around pretty much anything in the natural world.
A lot of times people are reacting to a cosmetic problem rather than a plant-health problem. But let me look up the source that convinced me that flea beetles are mainly a nuisance.
Summerkid:
I used a combination of Pyola, Neem Oil and a bioinsecticide from Gardens Alive. Even though I always apply either very early or late i the day, I think the malfunction with my sprayer applied too much to the plants.
I was teaching a potting class in some of the communities we build in and I put some plants in an Earthbox. The eggplant in the Earthbox is absolutely beautiful, nice and lush. How come the flea beetles didn't bother it but did attack the ones in the bales.
They are strong though and are developing blossoms!
BB
That is interesting. I was hoping that being in bales would stop some pests, ESPECIALLY CUCUMBER BEETLES
OK, I can't find the source that said ignore the flea beetles. Unless you want to count ME!
But Eliot Coleman recommends a shop-vac of all things, along with early row covers. Apparently flea beetles are less of a pest as the summer wears on. He's against even rotenone (still a poison) and diatomaceous earth (free silica).
I came across other recommendations for a handheld vac & Safer's on the underside of leaves, or strong water spray to knock them off.
HI YALL, IM IN NORTH GEORGIA BOUGHT VERY TIGHT SOMEWHAT GREEN BALES OF STRAW FROM HOME DEPOT AND BEEN USING UREA AT 34 FOR ABOUT 7 DAYS AND THE BALES ARE SUPER HOT BUT THEY STINK AND ARE COVERED WITH FLIES ALSO GETTING SOFT AND DARK ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ANYONE THANKS KGO.
kgo, i can't really read what you wrote cuz it's in all caps. it blinds me.
would you please try again with lower-case letters & some punctuation?
then we can help you.
Flea beetles will surely decimate eggplants here in the South. Maybe it doesn't happen so badly in the northern areas. I tend to use anything from simple talcum powder to a basil spray or mint spray to keep them at bay. Once the plants have taken on good growth and are about 18-24 inches high (or higher) the beetles tend to leave it alone. And BB, I've used Neem oil as well and it seems to zap them pretty good as well as having somewhat of a repellent property.
DE can get expensive to use if you have umpteen plants to use it on. As for me, I don't care for rotenone either, Summerkid...too much evidence of it playing a role in the cause of Parkinson's Disease.
kgo...it may be the flies are attracted to your bales due to the heat being put out by the composting/decaying bales. Also, urea, in too much quantity is highly nitrogenous and will certainly cause an odor. I think I'd cut back on adding anymore of it to your bales and if the bales stay somewhat moist then don't water each day.
As an aside, my tomato, cukes, and pepper plants are looking so nice and green, very healthy in my bales! Yay! I'm happy! :>)
Shoe.
No wonder your mind is still in vacation, Kent, look at that view!!! Gorgeous! Sounds like you're recharged for the rest of the year :~)
Lana
Thanks Shoe!
How have you been.?
BB
summerkid wrote;" Safer's on the underside of leaves, or strong water spray to knock them off."
And that's exactly what I did, so I guess I'll just keep an eye on them now. The plants seem to be starting to grow again, so I hope I can keep the critters at bay. Shoe, are there any "recipes" for your basil and mint sprays? I'd like to try that rather than the Safer's, if it will help. Really don't want to use anything, but I can't just let the poor little things get eaten alive.....
Margo
Howdy, Margo...I tend to have more than enough mint around here so I just grab it by the handfuls and let it steep in a bucket of water for a few days, then water the foliage with the mint water. The basil I'll sometimes make into a tea, usually a good handful, and steep it in warm water. This can just be made in a cooking pot...warm the water, throw in the basil and let steep. This goes into a qt spray bottle and I squirt the plants with that. It's not 100% guaranteed but it sure seems to help, especially when I use the mint tea as an alternate. And of course, I'll use the talcum as a 3rd alternative. (Just think if you ate something with talcum powder all over it. Yucky, eh?) If all else fails, you should feel safe using pyrethrum, especially since at these young stages the plants won't be in flower so you won't be negatively affecting any beneficials by using it. Lastly, if you have any row cover/reemay that will help as a barrier to the flea beetles, just be sure to take it off when the begin to flower.
Howdy BB....sounds like you are on a good roll with your gardens! Very busy here but we've been blessed with great weather for the gardens so I'm happy! (Exhausted, but happy!)
A great day to everyone! Keep smiling!
Shoe
Shoe, are these recipes only for the flea beetles? The only thing that breaks my organic armor are cucumber beetles. I resort to rotenone once a year (I have beehives so protect my precious little charges) to knock the population down, but I've yet to come across a satisfactory organic solution.
A DGer shared a garlic potion that kills everything in its path, so I'll try that this year.
I love StrawBale Gardening :). I've never had this kind of growth before, and even if they all succumb to something later, I'll try again! I have not added any fertilizer yet, what is the best way to do this?
Margo
Margo; I don't know that answer, but would love to see the responses. Your bale garden is way ahead of ours. Of-course cool weather has kept popping in, for a while longer this spring. Feb. was so much warmer than March, when day after day it was droping below freezing. The leaves on most of our Hostas have a rather odd look. like they had been in a battle. Some of the iris leaves look like they were jamed against something hard and just doubled up like an accordian.
It's not all bad though. DW don't care for radishes (raw) but does like them cooked, like in stew or even mixed in with potato salad. Well I have had most of one row to myself, so far. I have planted a second and third row already, and they are comming along nicely. The tomatoes in the bale garden are just now looking like they might actually make it. I have some in the ground with grass clippings as a mulch. They are a little smaller. They also look like they are ready to take off and do something. They have no fertilizer to give them a boost. Those in the bales on the other hand, have had, Urea to help start the bales cooking, as well as blood meal and some 10-10-10 before planting them. Yes they are further ahead than those in the ground. I would post a pic but my program is messed up. I can't seem to get it to work in harmony with DG.
Jeanett; Yesterday as I was watering the bales, I saw one of the small mellons had sprouted. O oh I forgot to tell Barb, an She isn't home right now either. But I am tickled that even one has come up. as that should supply us with seed for next year. Not to belittle in any way, The fruit!!
I have yet to plant some cukes in the bale I have reserved for them. I'm not that organized I guess. I have however planted a pkg, of seed in the ground and they are comming up. Guess I will have to get that done after bit, and see if they can get ahead of the ones in the ground. You have to remember this is still an experimental venture for me. The mellons I put in the side of a couple bales, seem to be comming along. but not many have have sprouted, as I had expected.
I'm wondering if they are trying to go up instead of out the side. I will have to check that out.
Russ
Russ,
Please do keep us informed as to what happens or doesn't with the melons you put in the side of the bales. I am very interested in that possibility.
Karen
Russ, wasn't it Catmad that has the melons in the side of the bale? Whoever it was, remember that they started the plants and had them going and then decided they wanted their bales placed with the strings the other way so they turned them and that is how they got them in the side of the bale?
I don't know if a plant would grow sideways?? Starting out. So glad your melons are sprouting. I planted Blue Lake pole beans the other day and they haven't sprouted. I even soaked them in innoculant. My melons are doing fine except now listen, the ones inside the hoophouse are about twice as big as the ones outside. Those outside are probably cold. They like the heat. You might put a hot cap over them or even cut the bottom out of a milk jug.
I am going to have to replant my cukes. They did not survive the transplanting. I have heard they don't like to be moved.
Jeanette
Jnette It was me and it was lettuce.It was an accident. When I first started my dogs bit the tops off everything and so waited until I could fence it in. Read I had put my bales wrong so flipped them the right way. A couple of weeks ago discovered the lettuce coming out the side, they had not died. It is leaf lettuce.Had my daughter take a picture as she said she knew how to put it on the site. Guess she forgot. Will remind her. Deanna
jnette. I think you are right. I believe it was Margo. Now that you reminded me, of her putting plants, I supose a person could put in seeds then turn the bales after they are well sprouted. I don't know why it wouldn't work. as long as there is enough moisture. May need to add some fertilizer ????? I did not get my hoop house done in time, to get that kind of use out of it. I think a quite a bit of talk and no work, lead to that problem. If I ever get all my mess cleaned up. and situate the back yard. Cut down that walnut tree that took the lightning hit instead of the house. And move an old storage shed. I might be able to spend more time on the garden stuff.
If I had finished the Hoop, or green house, whichever. I would not have taken up so much room in the kitchen, for starting plants. I was going to do the starting upstairs. Then about that time I got a phone call that a grandson may be staying with us for a while. Could he have the upstairs bed room? So I changed plans. But it didn't happen. So I guess the best plan would be to cover, the intended hoop house this summer before it doesn't get done again. Right???Whoops guess we were both wrong. thanks for straightening us out. Deanna
This message was edited May 27, 2007 4:58 PM
This message was edited May 27, 2007 4:59 PM
Check out the small harvest of cukes and squash. My squash were succumbing to blossom end rot up until a week ago. They seem to have worked that out amongst themselves though.
Cool! Mine are still 3" plants, different zone.
Absolutely lovely. Me too Darius. Oh well, our turn will come.
Jeanette
Concerning flea beetles: they ruined my eggplants last year. It was hard getting them going because of the cool nights into June and then the beetles really finished them off. I did spray with Pyola but couldn't keep ahead of them. This year I bought K Plus Neem spray and a bottle of concentrate since I read this kills flea beetles. I also plan to use the row covers. I will be planting some in straw bales and the rest in an Earthbox.
Questions for you straw bale experts: This is my first attempt.
1. At what temperature can I plant the bales? I'm sorry if this was answered in an early thread but I simply don't have the time to track it down. The bales have heated up nicely using blood meal. I have put on the fertilizer (Days 10 and 11) and am just waiting for them to cool down. The temps still range from 105 to 125 depending on the bale or what part of the bale. How much longer will I reasonably have to wait? I am getting anxious since I have tomato, pepper, eggplants, okra, and squash seedlings waiting to be planted!
2. Also should I still be watering them every day even though they are hot, damp and soft in the middle? I keep thinking I am just washing away all that good fertilizer but if it doesn't dissolve into the bale will it burn the roots of the tender seedlings when I plant them?I do intend to add potting mix to the bales before planting.
It is great fun following the threads of all you southern straw bale gardeners who lead the way and can then advise us newbies to the north!
Thanks, Jessica
gardadore, once the bale temps start to fall they come down pretty quick. I planted mine at 80 degrees; they fell from an average high of 140 degrees in only three days. I would definitely wait till they're under 90 degrees to avoid shocking the seedlings. As far as watering goes, once your bales have dropped from maximum temp the water should just help you get down to planting temperature that much faster. I think I can honestly say no one has over-watered their bales in the prep stage as much as I did. I have the water bills to prove it. My crop shows no sign of being nutritionally deprived. It's only when your bales start to sag and slide with time that they are really giving up the good stuff.
Weeeeeeelll, I planted mine a lot warmer than that. I think mine were closer to 110 degrees. BUT, I am not a "Southern" gardner. We in the north need the heat.
I do not water every day especially after planting. I think the plants will rot if they are too wet.
I think , even tho this is your first year strawbale gardening that you probably have gardened before. I say, use your instincts. That is what we have all had to do. Most of us are only on our 2nd year so we are not EXPERTS.
Jeanette
My plants are way behind any of yours, but I think you all have much warmer weather than I do. My tomatoes have a few blossoms but no fruit yet. I'm still watering every day that it doesn't rain. Should I slow down on the watering at some point? After they get fruit or am I watering too much now?
I have 3 regular tomatoes, one cherry tomato, one pepper plant (going to add one more pepper), and one bale that has 3 small melon plants that I grew from seeds someone sent me. I plant to put down either cardboard or black weed barrier cloth when the melons trail to the ground. I set all the bales on huge pieces of cardboard. Oddly enough, one bale has tons of grass seeds sprouting in it, one has a small amount, and one has next to none.
It's supposed to get to 77 here on Wednesday!!!! So far it has only broken 70 once I think.
Let me know what you think on the watering issue.
Gwen
Wwweeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllll, I try not to hold non-"Southern"-ness against anyone. Waiting long enough for the temp of your bale to come relatively close to the temp of the medium your seedling currently resides in is probably a good idea though. This is just "Southern" thinking though. I did cut way down on the watering once I planted however. I installed a drip irrigation system that seems to be doing the job nicely. No EXPERTS here either though.
LOL, you did better than I did dbarb. I can't knock success. Your produce is beautiful. You do have a lot better climate than we do. But, you see, when the weather is so cold the bales hold that water in like a sponge. If we have plants in there then they have a tendancy to rot.
Gwen, I sent you the melon seeds. It sounds like they are growing tho. I told Russ that I had some of those melons in my hoophouse which is covered with plastic, and then I also have some planted outside in bales. I really have to keep working with the ones outside because it is cold. Melons do like the heat of the hoophouse. You might try cutting the bottoms out of milk jugs and using them as hot caps. I would take the cap off tho so the heat can escape.
Jeanette
Jnette, I will fully defer to you on the quirks of gardening in the great white north. If your bales are still icy sponges in late May I can do nothing more than empathize and perhaps suggest cheap real estate further south of the arctic circle. At 125 degrees gardadore has one hot icy straw sponge on her hands. My recommendation of the bale temperature before planting does stand though...be it Mississippi or the Siberian tundra. Still no EXPERT here, but do want to share my experiences.
All: Everyone is doing a great job with their gardens, from the 2nd year crew to the those who just started this year.
Jeanette said it best about just using your instincts and gardening experience to adapt to bale gardening, along with the great advice you'll get from the DG family if you ever have a question. Hard to beat that combo.
One thing puzzles me.
I see all of the international subscribers to DG, but we've never had 1 single input from anyone other than USA and Canada that I can remember.
And with a 10:1 ratio of lookers -vs- comments, you'd think someone from another country would have joined in by now.
I would love to make the jump across the Atlantic or Pacific.
Kent
P.S. - forgot to mention that I hope everyone is having a great Memorial Day. Thank you fellow Vets for your contribution in the service of our country. All gave some; some gave all.
Here's a link to a great Memorial Day tribute someone created: http://www.youtube.com/v/ervaMPt4Ha0&autoplay=1
This message was edited May 28, 2007 11:24 AM
Dbarbrady. Keep up the good posting. My temps are a little inbetween yours and Jeanette's. Though this year threw us all off a bit. With the opposite of global warming this spring. **** I think Jeanette was standing outside fanning her dish towel trying to send some of their weather my way**** LOL Tee Hee
Jeanett; just funning. And still just one of the small melons so far. I probably should have soaked them and started them in doors. However I have always had better luck with direct planting. Our growing season is a little longer than yours (Usually)
Russ
Jeanette, that's a good idea, I'll do that. They sprouted right away. I put a few seeds in each 'hole' and I got one sprout in two holes and two sprouts in one hole. I recently pulled out the smaller second sprout.
Do you think I'm watering too much? Don't want to get everything rotted!
Gwen