Viburnum p. tomentosum "Summer Snowflake" aka "Watanabe"

This morning on "A Gardener's Diary" they visited Pam Harper's garden. During one segment they showed her "Summer Snowflake." This thing had to be thirty feet high!!! It was a massive, vase-shaped tree. In full-bloom, it was stunning, but I had no idea this plant would get so big. She mentioned hers was about twelve years old. Mine is maybe four or five years old and about ten feet tall. Has anybody seen more mature specimens and can collaborate the size of this palnt?

Scott

Hi Scott,

This episode of Gardeners Diary was taped in 2003. I know that as I have it saved since then and watch it often. Pam Harper is my idol. We had the pleasure of attending a talk she did in Rochester NY last year.

That Summer Snowflake is gorgeous.

However, I think the camera angle is deceiving.

In Pam Harpers book, Time Tested Plants published in 2000, she writes "V. plicatum "Fujisanensis at 10 years old is 9 ft high, with "Summer Snowflake" and "Watanabe" A LITTLE LARGER, but otherwise similar".

My Summer Snowflake is about 12 feet, and approx 6-7 years old. Way above the height Spring Meadow listed them at when I purchased them which was I think, 5-6 feet. I think they presented it as being identical to "Watanabei", and that "Watanabei" was a dwarf. Eek!

Isn't her Shasta lovely also? What a beautiful garden.

Hi Scott. I have seen plants of this cv in two places that were both in the 15-18' range. I too was surprised when I saw them at how big they can get. One was at Broken Arrow Nursery in CT (aka "Kalmia heaven".....). There is a specimen plant right at the front of the nursery that is about 15' tall. I think I asked when I was there the last time about its age and was told about 15 years.

On the Michigan State University Campus there is a group of 3 planted together somewhere near the main herbaceous gardens (don't remember exactly where) that are 15-18'. I have no idea of age but the planting in that general area do not look very old and I would be surprized if they are more than 10 years old. In both these cases I was very surprized at how big the plants were.

I had one in my old garden that was about 8' and was about that many years old.

I did not know till I saw these how vertical they were in overall shape. The big ones I have seen are all taller than wide.

I do get mixed up on the various 'everblooming' cultivars of V. plicatum. Perhaps one of the resident experts can set us straight? Some of them are supposed to be smaller. I have heard different names applied to what is supposed to be the same CV.

By the way, this viburnum is IMO an ideal candidate for planting with a clematis. A long blooming clematis will pair beautifully with it and make a garden by itself for much of the season. I used the clematis 'Prince Charles' in my old garden and was very pleased with that combo. Maybe I'll post a pic again when I am at home for people who may not have seen it.

i have had a summer snowflake for about ten years and it is about 12 ft tall
that is amazing that 1 grew 30 ft tall, i find it hard to believe.

It sure looked that tall on TV, towering above the two women as they spoke, but maybe it was a trick of the lens. No matter what, it was way taller than mine and much taller than I had expected it to get.

Scott

i was always under the impression that this particular Viburnum was supposed to be a rather small one.
i am wondering if there are variantes of this one

Scott,

I had a plant of 'Wada's Compact' that was grown in 3/4 shade and it got to about 6' tall in 6 years. In shade, I'd have thought that it would stretch more. Perhaps it is really different than 'Summer Snowflake' and the other various clones that look very similar. I'd been selling 'Summer Snowflake' as a 6' plant until 2 years ago when I saw the 12' plant at Spring Grove. It makes me very nervous when I think of the plants that I sold to people that are going to get too large. Reminds of when we first got signs for Miss Kim Lilac. They said 3'-4' tall!! I, too, look forward to a resident expert that can set these plants straight. Or perhaps we need to donate plants to a test site to see how they compare?

Regards,
Ernie

No "resident expert" can make up for confusion in the trade and outright chaos in the propagation world. Some DNA testing for parentage (V. p. t. 'Anna Nicole's Daughter') comes to mind...

Take a gander at Dirr, and some of his commentary about this species. And his commentary about COPF's efforts to trademark or patent new names for plants already in commerce.

Right on.

There are definitely different plants being sold under the same name, and there is the same plant being sold under different names. Scoundrels perpetrate this fraud, and it remains to those committed to right thinking and perpetuation of quality to sort it out and offer quality information to others.

That's a big job.

I would cast a jaundiced eye on anything purporting to be dwarf in this species and its allies.

I prune my 'Miss Kim' every yr for shape and it is only 3' high and 3' wide. Seen here. Maybe I got a wrongly labeled bush. This one is over 10 yrs old.

I have seen 6' "Miss Kim" plants.

Scott

VV,

Thanks for the laugh this morning! Dirr's comment had always led me to believe that all were one and the same. Now I have a slight amount of wonder about 'Wada's Compact'. Does anyone have a final tally on the number of names this critter masquerades around under? A new one on me was 'All Summer(s?)' at the Taylor Arboretum. Looks just like all of the others.

Sofer- your plant looks very much like Dwarf Korean Lilac. The foliage looks too small and too round to be 'Miss Kim.' A close up of the foliage would give more positive ID. Once, many years ago, I saw a Dwarf Korean struggling to grow in full shade which gave it larger leaves and an airy look. From 30', it looked a lot like the pictures that I'd seen of Disanthus cercidifolius. What a let down when I got right up to it.

Scott- 8'-10' 'Miss Kim' plants aren't uncommon in my neck of the wood. It's still a nice plant, just not what we were selling it as. Such is life.

Regards,
Ernie

Not to hijack this thread but since we are talking about Pam Harper on GDiary can you tell me the name of the Silverbell with the double looking flower that was on her show? She showed a single and then the double. Thanks, Linda

It wants to get tall but with trimming after flowering it seems to remain in a ball. My 'Miss kim' up close. What do you think?

RDT-- the two silverbells she mentions growing in her book are Halesia diptera Var. magniflora, and Halesia tetraptera.

Hi Sofer,

It looks like your plant has some S. microphylla blood in it. It's too pink to be Dwarf Korean unless its the one that is getting sold under Pink Dwarf Korean. I've not seen it but thought it was a softer pink. Also, Dwarf Korean tends to have a more glossy leaf than what yours seems to have. Maybe S. microphylla 'Superba' or even 'Tinkerbelle' although it doesn't look reddish enough to be 'Tinkerbelle'. Ah, shucks.... the first picture makes the flowers look sort of a lavender/purply and the second more pinkish. Darn cameras.

Regards,
Ernie

Steve,

Please telll me that photo is not from this spring. I'd dearly love to show a picture of my Dwarf Korean for comparison sake, but no where nearing leafing out.

Bob

No the photos are actually different Lilacs. I'm sorry I haven't labled my photos and I goofed up. The first is 'Miss Kim' and the second is another plant. sorry. I have been busy with other things with my parents and didn't focus. I didn't zoom in to see the close up. I didn't have one of miss Kim.

I saw the episode...very nice garden! I paused the show when the Viburnum in question came on. Using my patented and guaranteed measuring technique ("spread fingers and walk them up the screen") the Viburnum seemed to be about 3x the height of the ladies. I guess that would put it in the under 20' category. I think I was more scared by the 'Shasta' that was shown next. I did not give mine nearly that kind of room! It looks like Pam know how to grow shrubs!!

- Brent

She's my hero(ine) :)