what is it about purga?

What is it about purga that so many people get seed of some other specie? Is it crooks, or ignorance or just some ritual misunderstanding. I know that another specie was used for the same purposes , and was also called jalap, before purga was discovered by the spanish, and then also called jalap, in unison. Is this where the misunderstanding is? If so all those getting the wrong seed would at least be getting the same wrong kind.

Buying seeds from over seas is like playing blind mans bluff with you wallet all winter. Growing it out to see if it is true to name, is just as bad as growing them out to see how many names the same one has at bloom time. ohey vey. Frank

Hey Frank - There is consistency in the species that have been marketed as Ipomoea purga...so far as I am aware all of the supposed I.purga has turned out to be Ipomoea turbinata as entered in the PlantFiles here
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/133533/

The Ipomoea turbinata does have a similar look,but oif you look closely at the sepals surrounding the bottom of the outer tube on the I.turbinata,you will see that the sepals very closely resemble
Ipomoea alba as seen here
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/85370/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/119173/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/47020/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/64465/

The sepals on the Ipomoea 'alba' here
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/23838/
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/23839/
do not look typical and this is likely to be a similar looking but different Ipomoea species


The Ipomoea purga as entered in the PlantFiles here
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/139467/
has sepals that do not have the short pointy horizontal tips that are typical of both Ipomoea alba and Ipomoea turbinata

TTY,...

Ron

Hi Ron,
It looks like the colours of these 2 species are quite different, similar for sûre but the true purga seems to be a good "fuschia" and the Turbinata more like a light violet, so identifying the 2 species mustn't be to difficult, at least that's what I think when I see the photographs.

Henri

It's really frustrating when you purchase purga, only to get turbinata. I got "took", too...like everyone else. I am beginning to thing that I. purga rarely sets seed. You can tell the turbinata seeds because they are big, thick shelled, and look exactly like moonflower seeds. I believe if purga seeds are ever found they will be smaller. I was able to purchase some I. purga roots but they were dehydrated and no longer viable.
Beth

Henri - The flower color is much to variable and the sepals(!) are the most reliable key...if the collectors down in Mexico were focusing more on the details of the sepals and not just on the flower color...there would probably be Ipomoea purga available already...

Ipomoea purga will be located and circulated eventually...

TTY,...

Ron

Hi Ron,

I have some seeds of (supposed) I. Purga from several sources, 1 from a trade in the US and 1 from a collector in Germany, I haven't grown them yet.
I have a few questions :
How long will it take to make its first blooms if raised from seeds and if it's the true Purga (given the proper amount of light,heat etc....) ?
Are I. Purga and I. Turbinata seeds very similar ? Can those 2 sp be identified just by comparing the seeds ?
Do you know where I can see a photograph of true I. Purga seeds and I. Turbinata seeds ?

Thanks !
Henri

Henri, here are botanical drawings of I. purga seeds. They are fringed in hair, unlike I. turbinata seeds. That's how you can tell the difference.

Thanks Beth, that's helpul.
The problem with old botanical drawings is that sometimes they exagerate the details quite a bit (I remember a botanical drawing of Pachypodium namaquense....if it didn't say it was that plant I would never have recognized it !)
There must be a photograph of the seeds, somewhere... !

I have been hoping to find one, too! I think Ron is in contact with someone in Mexico where he got the bloom photos, and is hoping to get seed photos too.

Henri - It would alot easier to provide relevant cultivation details on Ipomoea purga if it had been grown by some gardeners and MG enthusiasts...but so far there is no database of experience with gardeners growing this plant...so,if someone actually get's the correct species and grows it out >then we will have some realistic information...

There are a few researchers who have grown Ipomoea purga but not all professinal researchers are open to sharing seeds and/or other information and unfortunately for the MG enthusiasts this happens to be the case with the researchers who have grown the Ipomoea purga plant relatively recently...

If I manage to locate any Ipomoea purga seeds the seeds and sprouts will be added to the PlantFile images here
http://davesgarden.com/pf/imagesbyuser.php?user=RON_CONVOLVULACEAE
and possibly also posted to the MG forum...

The threads here on scanning seeds for closeup details is excellent(!)...
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/708535/
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/708098/

There are closeups of the seeds of Ipomoea turbinata on the USDA website here
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=IPTU3
although I expect the photos eventually produced by the members here on the MG forum to supercede in overall accuracy and quality any photos currently on the USDA site...

Henri,if you can post closeups of the seeds that you have >that would be helpful...I'm not going to make any promises,but 'once in awhile' I can ID some species from the seeds...

Seed photos posted for ID should ideally have the seeds strategically arranged so that the view of the back and the sides of the seeds are easily visible and the hilium...closeups of the hilium are particularly valueable...

A view of what the seeds look like in a group helps to provide an indication of the general shape,color and other characteristics that are sometimes more easily apprehended when the seeds are viewed as a group sample...

Thanks for your questions...

Talk to you...

Ron

Here are the "phony" I. purga seeds I got in the mail, for comparison purpose. Of course, we don't have a photo of the real thing, just a drawing.

Thanks Beth - Sure looks like I.turbinata to me...