Cool weather herbicides

I have got to get out and lay waste to acres of returning Lonicer maackii. This stuff is tenacious, to say the least. My motis operandi has always been Round-up. I am very comfortable with its safety and effectiveness. However, it cannot be applied during cooler weather and retain effectiveness. Can any of the other herbicides be used in cooler weather effectively?

Edited to add: I'm particularly curious about Triplycor. Will it be effective on green foliage while temperatures are in the high 30Fs to 55for 60F?
Scott



This message was edited Apr 10, 2007 12:33 PM

I'm not sure which herbicide would be effective at those low temperatures, but make sure to mix in some spreader sticker when you do decide to do it. It stinks a little, but I have found it to be a tremendous help eradicating my Japanese honeysuckle. Here's the kind I use http://www.rbseed.com/.docs/record_id/10647/pg/10042

Scott,

You need a chainsaw and this: http://www.beyondpesticides.org/dow/indepth/labels/tordon%20rtu.pdf I've never had it fail with the various plants that I've used it on. Cut the plant off at the ground and then squirt a bit on the stump........ dead - for good. Doing acres might be a bit tedious, I suppose.

Good Luck,
Ernie

That's what we use and we are doing acres.

Deer

I am not sure if they have triplycor in an ester formulation. Check Lesco's site and take a look.

Hey Ernie,

A little too late for that. Most of this is regrowth from stumps and roots from plants (Lonicera maackii, mostly) I cut back in past years. Very herbaceous shoots. On future projects, I'll use your advice.

It does get tedious sometimes, but it's also therapeutic. I really like restoring land. I really hate Lonicera maackii.

Scott

Read the Tordon RTU label closely, especially under general precautions (page 3). You are not necessarily doing yourself any favors by using this chemical to kill undesirables around desirable plants, since this chemical can persist in soils even after translocation through the plant you are killing. It remains available for uptake into the roots of desirable plants.

Not a good idea in forests or ornamental landscapes.

Read the label.

Read the label.

Read the label.

Even if just painted on the stumps?

terryr, picloram, the active ingredient in Tordon K and Tordon 22 can leach out of the roots of the target plant and out to other plants. Tordon RTU has other active herbicides added to the picloram. I try to use the least toxic herbicide. The following link addresses the effect of Tordon K and Tordon 22 because those herbicides' only active ingredient is picloram. With the other Tordon products, it would be difficult to acertain which active ingredient is responsible for what damage. What I find disturbing is that picloram can remain active in the soil for up to 4 years, although the average is 4 months to a year. I use it only on cacti because it is the only herbicide that works on cacti. Even then it may take up to 2 years to completely kill that darn stuff. If possible I prefer to use Round Up because it breaks down in soil into harmless components. Have you tried painting full strength Round Up or the concentrated version on the stumps.
www.fs.fed.us/r6/nr/fid/pubsweb/piclo.pdf

VV,

with all due respect, I've used it in the nursery killing mulberries, elms, etc. that were growing up through pine and in very close proximity to other ornamentals. The only time that I've had a hint that something may have taken it unwantonly was in Pinus densiflora and even then, I saw other plants no where near the plant in question that had similar symptoms. I think it ended up being some sort of fungus on the foliage. I'm not trying to say that it's completely safe and to be used with out thought but my experience with it has been pretty good. For something as tough as honeysuckle, it's worth exploring. Perhaps a small trial area would be a good idea before going after a larger area. And yes, I always read the labels. As a matter of fact, Tordon, within inches of the top of the label states that it is for use in forests :-)

Regards,
Ernie

Even if...

Thanks, bettydee, for the additional information.

Ernie makes my point, in much more detail. An experienced horticulturist and grower reads labels and applies accordingly, primarily because they have an economic incentive NOT to damage the crop that provides their living. Secondly, it's a violation of law not to do so, and commercial entities are especially subject to hefty penalties if they don't (and keep thorough records thereto). Folks like Ernie are always watching for off-site effects of an application, whether it be pesticide, fertilizer, watering, pruning, etc. The usual or typical layman gardener does not necessarily do so.

In addition to the statement of fact that it is labeled for use in forests, it is also wise to continue to read all the rest of the label where it provides thorough information about the potential for damage to nontarget organisms. A review of the list (page 3) of woody plants controlled by this product should give pause to those who would use this chemical in plant communities composed of these species. Ernie's suggestion to trial any pesticide in a sample area is right on the money. Conversations with grizzled veterans of responsible chemical use under your conditions is also very beneficial.

It would be a darn shame for valiant efforts to eliminate invasives to be simultaneously damaging to an oak-hickory association, or even a wonderful woodland of dogwoods, hawthorns, and cedars.

Hmm.........Resin, you just gave me an idea. Similar to Decumbent, I have loads of suckers coming off from old birch stumps in my own yard. Now, the deer eat those new shoots normally anyway but I find that they'll miss clumps here and there.

I'm thinking that it might be fun to spray those clumps with an apple juice and peanut butter conconction. That'd probably take care of those pesky little suckers. Then, I'll put the same concoction all around my electric fence when I charge it up in a couple weeks........

Scott, you could always fence it in and rent a couple of goats. I'm perfectly serious . Ken

Watersedge,

Oh, the depravity, the decadence, of having birch being a pest species!

Ken,

I have heard of goats being used as kudzu control down south. Quite successfully, I might add. I personally don't know any goat herders here in the greater Cincinnati area (though I do know some old goats), but I guess I could check the yellow pages.

Scott

I know, I know.... if it isn't the white birch then it's all that Cornus candensis and Vacciniun angustifolium, the stuff is just rampant! For once, I'd just like a little Japanese knotweed to pull.

We started using it over 4 yrs ago and the only plants that are dead are the honeysuckle we painted the Tordon on. Nothing else has been effected at all. I always read labels. We're not out there willy nilly spraying the stuff. It's being used cautiously, and with me wearing gloves and long sleeves to protect my skin, since I'm the one doing most of the painting.

Triclopyr butoxyethyl ester (BEE) is Vine-X. It is extremely effective. I have used it on some tough stuff with no carry-over soil contamination. It was applied to either the trunk, as they direct, or to the stump within just seconds of cutting, my favorite and most rapidly lethal method. Honeysuckle, poison ivy, multiflora rose, all succumbed. It would be tedious in large applications, but it would be only once.

Watersedge,

Okay, I'll describe the process of pulling Japanese knotweed so you'll know what it's like:
"Ah, there's some more of that darned Japanese knotweed, I'll bend over and pull it." Despite the sore back and bad knees, I reach down and pull the knotweed. The mind says to itself, "I don't think I hardly got any root. Shoot. Guess I'll be pulling that again in about a week." About this time, the eye notices more Japanese knotweed, just a bit out of reach. "Dang, would you look at that. I guess I better just get on my knees and crawl over there and get that." So I crawl over there and tug at the knotweed, again managing a very unsatisfying quantity of roots. I repeat this process until, next thing I know, I'm twenty five yards away and an hour later from whence I began. Now, here's the next part, and it's vitally important: I find myself doing the same thing all over again a week later. And then the week after that. And then the week after that. Repeat, ad nauseum.

Now, here's something I never find myself saying. "Gosh, I can't see the forest for the birches!" Nor this: "How did I get those stitches in my chin? Well, funny thing, I was trying to run through the Cornus canadensis and took a header." Here's one more thing I've never said: "State Farm? Yeah, well, I need to file a claim. You see, my barn burned down because the fire in my brush pile full of Vaccinium angustifolium got out of control."

Scott

I've never met anyone from Ohio that I didn't like:)

My sides are still splitting...

Dateline Cincinnati:

Cranberry Catastrophe

Bunchberry Bumbler

Blinded By the Birch

LOL, too funny Scott. I can only hope that the barn thing didn't really happen with another fuel source!

Regards,
Ernie

This message was edited Apr 12, 2007 6:46 PM

If using deer or goats as a herbicide, it is of course particularly important to read the instructions on the label.

Resin

Ernie,

As it was, that has been a concern in my life! When I cleared about 20 acres of Lonicera maackii from a client's woods, the question obviously came up about how and where to dispose of the bodies. The land is very hilly, so dragging the brush around wasn't much of an option. We did rent a big chipper, but a great amount of the land just wasn't accessible to either drag the chipper to the brush or drag the brush to the chipper.

A couple of deep ravines existed on the property, and these had suffered a lot of erosion in recent years, so one thing I did was toss a lot of the brush into the ravines. That, at least, lowered the profile of the brush pile and made what I called "Beaver Dams." These caught a surprising amount of silt. In places, the floor of the creek has risen at least two feet.

Another thing I did was create long brush piles through the woods. I figured that these would hopefully last no more than 3-5 years and they might actually provide homes for wildlife while they broke down. As it turned out, they broke down almost completely in about three years.

But, two of those three years were really dry and I seriously began to question the wisdom of having long, continuous piles of tinder dry brush snaking through the woods! Fortunately, no fire ever occurred and a crisis was averted.

Scott