Seedlings

How big should my MGs be in their seeding cups before I plant in the ground? Also, I have four plants of 2 different colors is that enough to cover a 15 ft fence? I am in Zone 9 and wonder if they will come back each year or do I need to replant? Thanks, Tim

Hello:Tim I would at least start 12 more MG indoors under grow lights.
I would sow the seeds in late spring.I sow my mg toward the end of May.here We have our last frost date around May15th.The zone you live in they probably will reseed. You can even direct sow your MG.

Tim,

I usually wait until there is a nice root system in the cup that will hold the growing medium together when I cut the cup away before transplanting. Which one(s) are you growing?

Joseph

I am growing Ipomoea Scarlet O' Hara and Ipomoea Unida's Purple. Will they reseed and come back each year or do I need to start them over? There are heavenly blues growing wild around here but I can't find any seeds. I bought some heavenly blue seeds before and they were coated with something, why?

Some MG's are coated so "druggies" won't chew them up to get high.

swampguy - Scarlett O' Hara should be a solid red Ipomoea nil similar to the ones shown here
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/88943/
http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=3257009
but the solid red is currently hard to find...

Ipomoea purpurea "Crimson Rambler" is often substituted for real SOH by many suppliers and merchants...and most of the time they just don't know any better...

The one that you mention here
" Ipomoea Unida's Purple"...this might be Kniolas...which should be so dark that you can hardly see that there is a darker star pattern in it...and when viewed in full direct sunlight...no 'shadey light' necessary to realize that Kniolas are extremely dark...

Here is a relatively dark GrandPa Ott's taken at noon in full sun for comparison
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/117902/

The "Heavenly Blue" that you mention as growing wild in your area is most likely actually Ipomoea indica as entered in the PlantFiles here
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/7775/
Ipomoea indica is often too clonal to produce seeds...

Enjoy your MG's...(!)

Ron


P.S. - The capstan and other 'anti-fungals' that the seeds may be coated with can be more toxic than the alkaloids in the seeds...analagous to spraying pot with paraquat...

This message was edited Apr 6, 2007 4:17 AM

Do you think 4 plants are enough to cover a 15 ft fence? How big can one plant get? I would also like to put one or two on an old clothesline pole I have, will that be enough?

Start a few more in case one doesn't make it for some reason.

Tim, 15' in height or length?

I am in zone 9 and was wondering will they come back next year or will I need to start over?

They will seed if you don't cut off the dead flowers. They will form little seed pods after the bloom and the seeds will fall and grow in the spring.

Thanks everyone. I am already hook on so many plants and now morning glories. I wonder if there is a twelve step program for plant addictions. :-)

The addiction only gets worse if you hang around this forum! I'd never even seen a morning glory before joining DG. Now I'm growing them inside and even trading for seeds. Loving it, just wish I had more growing space inside right now.

Joanne

What is it in MG seeds that cause people to get high or is it poisonous? Can it endanger children and pets? It is similar to Datura or Burgs?

MORNING GLORIES (Ipomea spp.); entire plant; plant contains LSD-related hallucinogens; may contain toxic levels of nitrates.


alot of plants are toxic in one way or another it just isnt talked about. you just need to be careful. there are lists out there on this subject just type poisonous plants in to google or yahoo or what ever search you use.

swampguy - Thanks for your questions and I will attempt to share some information from my experience and researches into the toxicity of MG species

Marie - Thanks for your input although my perspective is somewhat different and I will elaborate somewhat in the links and listings provided here...

So,To Any and All to whom it may concern,generally here it is...

Not all Morning glories are hallucinogenic
http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=2263849
http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=3279682

Not all Morning glories are 'poisonous'
http://davesgarden.com/forums/p.php?pid=3292434

The following is a partial listing of some morning glory species which are fully/partially edible to humans and/or to different animals...most especially the
parts categorically mentioned when prepared properly and/or as raw greens or extracted juice .
These species and specific parts mentioned range from entirely to partially edible are probably less toxic/hazardous to humans and animals
Please exercise discretion/rationale in pursuing this subject matter further.


The Ipomoea species in the batatas series are likely to have vegetative and root parts that are generally much less toxic as compared to other taxanomic groups in the MG Family of Convolvulaceae.
The most common alkaloids present are tocins and vasoconstrictors and less commonly of the 'hallucinogenic' ergoloid type...most of the alkaloids that occur in Convolvulaceae are usually much more concentrated in the ripe seeds to a lesser extent in the roots and usually present in a much less concentration in the vegetative parts of the plants.

Ipomoea carnea is the species most often associated with physically toxic properties.
Ipomoea tricolor and plants in the tribe Argyreieae are the species which have the seeds which are are used for their potential hallucinogenic properties and although the indoles responsible for the mind-altering properties can sometimes produce alarming disorientation >these same hallucinogenic alkaloids are not known to have physical toxicity.
Ipomoea tricolor is most often mis-identified as Ipomoea violacea by the mostly urban 'devotees' of using the seeds for hallucinogenic purposes...the mis-identification stems from an an early taxanomic (mis)-identification by Richard Evans Schultes and some verbal support from an unknown Convolvulaceae 'expert' at the NYBG which was susequently not recognized by the rest of the professional International botanic community and this confusion with Ipomoea violacea still lingers despite DNA sequencing proving the identity of the 2 completely distinct Ipomoea species...
See my comment on the main entry page for Ipomoea violacea here
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/57559/index.html

The Indians in South America who use many indole based alkaloids (currently classified as 'hallucinogens') on a daily basis for many years are not distinguishably less physically fit than those who do not use indole based hallucinogens...

The Indians who use ergoloid type of indole alkaloids daily still manage(without any optical glasses) to shoot monkeys and birds out of the trees using only handmade blowguns...keeping in mind that this type of hunting is difficult(!) and that anyone with serious visual impairments or other serious nervous system impairments would simply not be able to accomplish this type of routine hunting...

I'm not advocating...just reporting...



Calystegia japonica - shoots and roots eaten in China
Calystegia sepium - roots eaten prepared in China - young shoots eaten in India
Convolvulus erubescens - animals graze leaves; human use as a green vegetable reported in Western Australia
Convolvulus farinosus - leaves used as a food additive and herb in East.Africa
Convolvulus lanatus - animals browse leaves in Arabian area
Convolvulus prostratus - animal bovines graze leaves; human vegetable Arabian
Cressa cretica - animal fodder in Arabian area; herb eaten in India
Cressa truxillensis - animals browse stems; used as vegetable by Indians in Sonora
Evolvulus alsinoides - animals graze parts in NE Africa and NAustralia area
Ipomoea alba - leaves/infructescences used as human food by indigenous people in tropics
Ipomoea aquatica - all vegetative parts can be eaten raw but usually cooked
Ipomoea bracteata - tubers used raw as vegetables in Mexico - Chihuahua,Morelos,Oaxaca
Ipomoea batata - all vegetative parts can be eaten raw but usually cooked
Ipomoea donaldsonii - animal browse aerial parts; humans eat roots raw and prepared in Ethiopia,KenyaSomalia
Ipomoea eriocarpa - used as human food and animal fodder in West Trop.Africa
Ipomoea indica - aerial parts grazed by animals
Ipomoea hederacea - seeds used as a purgative by various Indians
Ipomoea leptophylla - root used as famine food by plains Indians
Ipomoea littoralis - related to sweet potato and human famine food in micronesia
Ipomoea lonchophylla - aerial leaves grazed by animals in Australia
Ipomoea longituba - roots used for human food after preparation in North East Tropical Africa
Ipomoea mombassana - leaves/stems grazed by game animals in Kenya/Tanzania
Ipomoea murucoides - game mammals browse flower parts in Mexico/Guatemala
Ipomoea nil - seeds used for many centuries as a purgative
Ipomoea pandurata - root used as a famine food for N.American Indians
Ipomoea pes-tigridis - leaves are animal food forage in West Trop.Africa
Ipomoea plebeia - animal fodder in Australia
Ipomoea polymorpha - roots eaten in SouthE/East Central Africa(eg,Ethiopia,Kenya,Zambia)
Ipomoea purpurea - roots have been used as a famine food ;leaves/stems bovine/caprine browse SE.Afr
Ipomoea ramosissima - related to sweet potato - Central/S.America
Ipomoea sepiaria - leaves eaten by humans in India
Ipomoea sultanii - roots are used as a famine food in Somalia ; aerial parts for animal food
Ipomoea setosa - root is considered to be a potential source of human food
Ipomoea tabascana - related to sweet potato - Mexico
Ipomoea tenuissima - " " " " -Central/S.America
Ipomoea tiliacea - all vegetative parts can be eaten raw but usually cooked
Ipomoea trifida - progenitor of sweet potato - root used as food in certain areas of Mexico through S.America
Ipomoea triloba - " " " " " - origin Americas - now pantropical
Ipomoea turbinata(muricata) - peduncles eaten by humans in India; leaves in East Tropical Africa
Ipomoea umbraticola - related to sweet potato - Mexico/Central America
Ipomoea x leucantha - " " " " - Mexico/S.America
Merremia peltata - roots considered edible by some tribes in Malay but may cause
purging; aerial parts also substantially browsed by cattle and other ruminants

Operculina brownii - roots considered edible by some tribes in Australia
Operculina turpethum - young buds eaten when still white - N.Queensland
Porana racemosa - peduncles eaten in India
Rivea hypocrateriformis - leaves,stems and young shoots eaten raw or cooked in India
Turbina oblongata - root used as food by natives in Lesotho

Please remember that many animals can eat toxins safely that are not safe for humans and vice
versa!

The following is a partial listing of Convolvulaceae species eaten by chimpanzees in
the Mahale Mntns. :

Hewittia sublobata - leaves and stems
Ipomoea cairica(Sweet) - leaves/vine
Ipomoea involucrata - leaves
Ipomoea ochracea - leaves,shoots,stems
Ipomoea rubens - leaves
Ipomoea species various not further identified - flowers,leaves stems,pulp
Ipomoea turbinata - leaves and vine
Lepistemon owariensis - leaves,stems
Merremia pterygocaulos - leaves,stems

Seed companies have a tendency to label all of the seeds as 'poisonous' with the skull and crossbones and there really is no evidence that the seeds of the most commonly grown species are anything near 'deadly'...they are realistically much more likely to result in simple uncomplicated vomiting than any other distressing features for the reasons I mentioned in some of the links...

Hope this reference material is helpful...

TTY,...

Ron

This message was edited Apr 11, 2007 4:07 AM

how do you know when to take your seedlings out from under a starter kit? I'm new to MG's and have some growing and have ordered more. even JMG's. Darn Gourd anyway. She gave me a bunch of plants before she moved and there are a lot of MG's growing in the pots and they are so pretty. Where is she anyway. Haven't seen her here for a while.
Thanks all,
Norma

NJBGardener-Norma

You asked
"how do you know when to take your seedlings out from under a starter kit?

The starter environment is usually used to get the seeds to germinate and to give the plant a 'running start'...i.e., by providing a very supportive environment for the young plant to develop it first true leaves and after that has been accomplished you can move the plants to a larger container indoors wherever they will receive sufficient light and/or outside weather permitting...

TTY,...

Ron

Hi there,

Norma,
my modem had to be replaced and they took their sweet time in doing so, finally today they fixed my problema.....

But, I'm here now.. when your mgs bloom, post a photo and we'll try to ID them for you.

I think one of the ones you have is I. Indica from my seeds, they look like Star of Yelta but with the Indica leaf patterns. That one should be interesting. I didn't get to take a photo of it in 2005. Hopefully that is one that will bloom and survived. Will send you a D-mail.
A.

Gourd
Thank you for the info. I will keep my eye peeled for the l.Indica. They are just getting to blooming size now.

Ron,
Thank you. I'm always afraid that I am going to leave the seedlings in too long cause I have had some get long and lanky and I don't want that to happen again.

Norma