MGs of Playa del Carmen, Quintana Roo, Mexico

I had the good fortune of a company paid trip for my wife and I to a beautiful resort in this area of Mexico in mid January of this year. I saw lots of beautiful butterflies, which you can see here: http://davesgarden.com/journal/d/t/atenkley/4287/

On one of my walks in the late afternoon, I came upon some MG vines with seed pods. Like any good afficionado, I rescued a few pods for trial at home. This was one small area about 20 feet long. I noticed a difference in the leaves and the pods at each end of this area, but thought them to be just variations of the same species. I was feeling pretty good, because I knew that the pods on the north end had to be Ipomoea hederacea and the ones on the south end were some variation...I thought excitedly. I did keep pods from both areas separate, made mental note, took a few pictures and was on my way with a smile on my face. Once home I labeled the packets as I. hederacea and thought I would grow the seed from the larger pods of the northern part to compare with the local Alabama I. hederacea seed I had collected earlier.

To compare the growing plants, I have Journal entries to document their growth etc.

Baldwin County, AL I. hederacea - ivy leaf: http://davesgarden.com/journal/j/vbc/atenkley/47273/

Baldwin County, AL I. hederacea - heart leaf: http://davesgarden.com/journal/j/vbc/atenkley/47272/

Mexican I. hederacea: http://davesgarden.com/journal/j/vbc/atenkley/47274/ ( these are from seeds of the northern part of the collection area)


I basically forgot about the pictures until this evening.....now I'm thinking I could have I. hederacea from the north end and I. nil from the south end....

What do you think?


Here are seed pods from the north end:

...this is the leaf from the north end...

...these are pods from the south end....sepals not nearly as reflexed and curved as those from the north end.

...this is the leaf from the south end... a bit different from the normal I. nil leaf...

...and finally, here is a spent flower I found about mid way between the two ends. It looks a lot like I. nil....

Now I guess I'll need to start more seed to complete the comparative grow out...

Arlan

Certainly hairy enough to be a nil!

Arlan - Glad you collected seeds from this area

Here's what I see as per ID in the photos of the plants...

Ipomoea hederacea
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/atenkley_1175124539_886.jpg
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/atenkley_1175124721_399.jpg


Ipomoea nil
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/atenkley_1175124833_109.jpg
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/atenkley_1175124934_232.jpg
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/atenkley_1175125129_850.jpg


TTY,...

Ron

Thanks for the confirmation, Ron. I really appreciate it.

In the same neighborhood, I found this plant of what I belive is Ipomoea cordatotriloba. It had much smaller features than the local Alabama variety.

Here is a picture to show the scale of this plant's flowers and pods.

...here is the leaf..

...finally, another cluster of spent flowers and pods.

Arlan

Wow .. that is significantly smaller than the ones that are trying to eat my neighborhood.

X

Really cool seed capsules, Arlan!

Joseph

Arlan - The sepals look like Ipomoea cordatotriloba...Did you collect seeds from the very small plant in the batatas series(?)...could you post a closeup of the seeds(?)...

Excellent(!) photography...

Thanks...

Ron

Yes, I did collect some seed and they are also very small. This is as close as I can get with my present "lighting system". Hope this helps!

Lot 20707 Playa del Carmen, Mexico

Arlan

Arlan - Nicely arrayed and Close enough(!)...Ipomoea cordatotriloba...

TTY,...

Ron

...here is a photo of the Ipomoea hederacea seed from the north end; the seed has a smooth coat.

Seedlot 20607

...and here is the seed of the Ipomoea nil from the south end; it has short hairs....

Seedlot 20507

Arlan

Wow! I haven't seen nils with hairs!

After seeing these, I looked at some hybrid seed that Emma sent me. It had much shorter hairs, but you could see them. I was using an 8X leupe. I'm wondering if this is an identifying characteristic of I. nil..?

Arlan

Arlan - Very nice(!) photos...your setting a new standard for MG seed photo closeups...

The degree of hairs present on the majority of the seedcoat in Ipomoea nil is very variable and so not absolutely 'diagnostic',but the presence or absence of any hairs and the degree and placement of any hairs is still usually a very helpful aspect to be considered...

If you could look close enough you will see that the Ipomoea hederacea does in fact have hairs surrounding the 'all important' hilium...

Great(!) contributions...

TTY,...

Ron

I agree with Ron, great photos!

Joseph

Ditto here on the great photos.. A.

Thanks Joseph and Antoinette, I appreciate it! We enjoyed the trip, and I especially liked my hikes into the neighborhoods!

The seed photos were done rather quickly, and I would like to reduce the contrast between the black seeds and the white background. I've got a few ideas and X has given me a few more....

I noticed some really nice seed photos by Frank....!

Arlan

Here is an update on a few relative items.....

I did try to germinate a couple of the Ipomoea nil seeds, one germinated finally and I just took this picture a few minutes ago....

It is still a very young plant, but it seems to have more of a I. nil shape to the leaves than the I. hederacea shape. Now I just hope I can get it to bloom to confirm it's identity.

Edited to add: After looking at a picture of an early leaf of the Playa del Carmen Ipomoea hederacea plant...it looks a lot like this one..... here it is: http://davesgarden.com/journal/j/si/124819/

This message was edited Jul 6, 2007 5:35 PM

I have one of the Playa del Carmen Ipomoea hederacea plants in the garden, growing between a cordate leaved and an ivy leaved I, hederacea from locally collected seed.

Interestingly, the local cordate plant was a "flowering machine". It formed flower buds at every leaf axil, starting from the very first true leaf on the plant. The ivy leaf plant started blooming probably 6 weeks later than the cordate, and then only when the plant had substantial size.

Both of these plants were attacked by rust when the rains came, as were all of my JMG's. This rust quite quickly consumes the leaf and it dies and falls off. (I have had several JMG's get decimated and actually die.) Both the cordate and the ivy leaf plants are finished blooming now, and the rust has taken its toll.

Now....the Playa del Carmen plant between these two is unscathed by the rust. I can not find even a spot on any of its leaves. It has not flowered yet....the plant is getting monsterous in size, and I still do not see any flower buds.... It's leaves look somewhat like the local ivy leaf, but are larger and have a greater substance...feeling thicker.

Here is a picture of the top side of the Playa del Carmen . hederacea.... showing some insect damage...

This message was edited Jul 6, 2007 9:05 PM

...here is the underside...showing no rust....

For comparison, here is the top side of the local I. hederacea leaf...giving a hint of the rust damage taking place underneath.

...here is the underside of the local ivy leaf I. hederacea, showing the rust....

Arlan

Thanks for the pix of the Rust. Are you aware of what other species in your area are acting as alternate hosts. Sometimes a whole genus and all the species in it can act as an alternate rust host. Here where I am living, the white pine blister rust, can get harobred by species in the Berberis genus, and the species of wild currants in the genus Ribes. Wild currants and Oregon grape are the intermediate hosts in my neighborhool. The white pine blister rust was introduced to the northwest around 1919, in white pine seedling imported from France.

Have you considedered chemical warfare on the rust this time of the year.? Frank

Hi Frank,

I believe the alternate host for this rust are the pine trees...which are everywhere here!

I first saw it in the garder last fall on the second crop of MG's. then this year it showed up on the primary crop. I have always tried to keep chemicals off the garden and yard, however, I have started a spray program to combat this...to try and keep the new growth rust free and the plants alive to mature the seed crop. I will be using chemicals for this as a preventative measure from now on.

Arlan

Hi Arlan. . .

I have a horrible problem with Rust for the first time ever.
What chemicals are you using.

Thanks,
Emma

I guess I might like to know, too. We also try to stay away from chemicals in the garden, but white pines were the first woody plants I could get past local vandals out front some decades ago. Well, hmmmpf.

Great thread, Arlen.