Carnea

Carnea blooming late Feb in the g house.

Is that a birthday bloom? I love your DG name BTW:)

Happy Birthday Jackie!
-Kim

Thanx Kim. Looks like the carnea's will have to provide my bday blooms. LOL
Here's a rooted cutting also blooming. Funny I don't remember seeing the
white bars before.

Happy Birthday! Beautiful bloom and so welcome this time of the year.


Susan

Happy Birthday(!) Jackie -

The carnea bloom from the cutting showing the lighter primary folds may deepen in color as the plant becomes larger and metabolically more mature...

Nice photos...

TTY,...

Ron

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!! Pretty blooms too!!

Thanx Ron, Susan and Ronnie. Love the flowers on carnea but the plant
itself is ugly. I haven't been able to make it branch. Seems to have it's
own agenda. lol

Jackie

Happy BD Jackie....mine carnea are pretty ugly, too. I'm hoping the summer heat perks them up.

Thanx Beth. I wonder about the effect of the temps on carnea. Last summer
when mine finished blooming, It just sat there
not growing or anything. So I rooted a cutting and it just sat there too. As soon
as the temps cooled in Oct, it started growing again. In Aug, I'm going to cut the big one all the way back and see
what happens. Maybe it will finally branch.

Jackie

Happy Birthday Jackie,

LOVE Your I. carnea blooms.

This one has such a nice deep Pink Color
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=3320748

Mine are always a Light Pale Pink.

Emma

Happy birthday! Really nice looking plant there, Patootie!!

Joseph

Happy Birthday !

Happy birthday, Patootie - thanks for inviting us into your greenhouse to enjoy your birthday flowers :)

Karen

Thanx Emma, Joseph, Rj and Karen.
Glad you enjoyed my birthday flowers :)

Jackie

I have noticed on my carnea....after a dip in temps. some of the primary leaves on the main stalk died and fell off. From the place they fell off it looks like "branches" are forming.

Beth, If your seeing little nubbies, could be new stems or branches forming.
How cool did it get to make the lvs drop? Here in the summer, our heat is excessive, day after day of 95 plus. That's too much for carnea, but at least
it didn't croak. Last Oct, when the temps moderated to 85-90, it started
growing again. What do your summer temps range?

Jackie

Our summer temps are pretty moderate...usually in the 80's (coastal influence). We might have a couple weeks of 90's when we complain a lot, but it is not the norm for this area.

I think it got down to 40 for the leaf drop.

This message was edited Mar 27, 2007 10:54 AM

Beth, Your summer temps better suited for carnea than mine. I'm sure yours
will start filling out as it warms there. Mine will just tolerate summer temps
waiting for the cooler days and nights of fall.
It's a whole different story for carnea ssp fistulosa. It loves the hot temps and grows well, sometimes blooming by July/Aug. It's still blooming when
I return it to the g house late fall. I really prefer it over carnea.
fistulosa in Nov

Jackie

Beth - yes,the plants will often sprout new growth at the junction where the cotyledon stem meets the main stem,but plants that are completely severed below(!) the junction of the cotyledon stems almost never resprout from the stem and in annuals usually persish without any further growth...

Jackie - the following assessment is most definitely not directed at your person,but based upon the frequent useage of the subspecies designation of fistulosa which is encountered extremely frequently all over the entire World Wide Web...and I'd like to try to offset some categorically very mistaken notions about the useage of the term subspecies fistulosa...

so,a couple of aspects to be considered...


The only difference between Ipomoea carnea and Ipomoea carnea subsp. fistulosa is that(accordingto the professional peer reviewed literature) the subsp.fistulosa tends to have leaves that are more elongated and spear-like and the Ipomoea carnea tends to have leaves that are a wider cordate shape...that's it...(!)...

There is usually enough overlap in the leaf measurements that have called into question as to whether a subsp.fistulosa should even be continued to be regarded as an officially recognized subspecies...politics in professional botany are as real as in any bureaucratic 'institution'...and just for the record I personally also have serious doubt about the legitimacy of the subsp.fistulosa...

The seed photos of the Ipomoea carnea and Ipomoea carnea subsp.fistulosa on the USDA website are misleading based upon my experience...because I have seen seeds with varying depth of coloration and various degrees of bristly spinulose hair from plants that were collected from wet and dry areas and from plants that produced mostly rounded cordate leaves in addition to plants that produced the more spear shaped leaves...the shape of the leaves will often change at different stages of the plants growth and in response to environmental variables...

There is no other serious and sufficient documented differences between Ipomoea carnea and Ipomoea carnea subsp.fistulosa...there are no differences in the height of the plants,the flowers,the seeds or the way in which the main type varies from the subspecies...as both Ipomoea carnea and the Ipomoea carnea subspecies fistulosa can both display any and all of the same characteristics...again the only(!) official claim to differences is in regard to the shape of the leaves which can vary so much on the same plant and/or within the same group of wild plants that the legitimacy of a subspecies fistulosa is rendered somewhat 'dubious'...

Plants that may be either Ipomoea carnea or Ipomoea carnea subsp.fistulosa can vary in the type of environmental factors that they respond to based on the geographic strain...e.g.,Ipomoea carnea or Ipomoea carnea subsp.fistulosa may not flower well in a very,hot dry environment or either one might do very well in a hot dry environment depending on the particular geographic strain...(!)

Ipomoea carnea and Ipomoea carnea subsp.fistulosa both flower very well all summer in India where the temperatures are constantly well over 100degrees and where plants are growing next to a stream and get constant moisture... the same type of behaviour has been observed in different geographical strands,swarms and colonies in the New World plants...

TTY,...

Ron

Very interesting observations, Ron. Thanks - Arlan

Ron, very interesting. A little hard to understand with my 2 plants looking so different and acting so different except for the identical blooms. I may send pics of mine so
you can see how they differ. Not to argue but so you can see why I am amazed. My carnea was started from seed but I purchased 2 grown plants of fistulosa.

To relate a story re the fistulosa purchase 8 or so yrs ago.
I went to a local nursery and saw the fistulosa, there was no tag.
Looking at the spear shaped leaf, I thought gee that looks like the cemetary flower
id'd by Mr Hudson as Zapotec collection, Ip ssp fistulosa, a lovely cemetary
flower. I had germinated a seed but lost the plant by doing something stupid.
I recognized it solely by the lvs.
So I asked the nursery owner, could that be a tree mg? She said she didn't
think so. Fast fwd 3 or 4 weeks. I had rec'd my latest issue of Tropical mag,
defunct for the last few yrs. In it was an article re hibiscus, showing some of
the more rare and exotic. One pic was id'd as gossypium stuartii, ornamental
cotton. It was identical to the plant at the nursery. I returned to the nursery and
asked her if the gossypium's were for sale and she said yes. lol
She had purchased the plants from a lady in So Louisiana who had id'd them
as gossypiums or she had seen the mag article. Until I joined Dave's, I was still calling them gossypium's. lol
So you could say I've already been on quite a journey with my gossypium
turned fistulosa.

Jackie
Sorry if I bored anyone, I still find it amusing. Wish I could find the old mag
to see for sure if fistulosa was mis-identified
Here's a pic showing the bottom growth of fistulosa from last summer
I'll send a pic of my ugly carnea soon.

Here's my ugly carnea, the base of the plant. Even as old, fat and ugly as I am,
I look better than this plant. LOL
This ugly thing produced my lovely b day flowers.

Jackie

Don't give up on it yet, I think they just get ugly for the winter! I bet it will be green and growing soon.

Here's the equally unsightly top.

Beth, I hope so. I probably need to cut it back to under a foot tall now just to see
what it does. Might kill it but I've got the baby one I rooted last summer.
The older plant just did not respond to my attempts to prune and shape. That got me nowhere. lol

Jackie

Jackie - To recapitulate > you may have an Ipomoea carnea subsp.fistulosa...you may not,but in either case whatever you might find in any(!) Ipomoea carnea subsp.fistulosa could also be found in an Ipomoea carnea and vice versa...the one and only difference taxanomically that determines the difference is the shape of the leaves...

Again,any behavioral or other trait that you might encounter in any Ipomoea carnea could also be found in Ipomoea carnea subspecies fistulosa...

So(!),I just wanted to be clear that the taxanomic determination is based upon the shape of the leaves and no other trait...

I'm finding that the useage of the term fistulosa engenders more mistaken ideas about Ipomoea carnea than not...so,I'm sharing my experience that most of the people in the world presently 'believe' that the difference between Ipomoea carnea and Ipomoea carnea subspecies fistulosa has a 'mysterious something' to do with a characteristic other than a thinner more elongated leaf...and it doesn't...whatever features or behaviour(s) that you find occuring in any Ipomoea carnea could also be found in Ipomoea carnea subsp.fistulosa...

Individual plants that originate from various geographic localities and strains and that have adapted to local conditions e.g.,dry,hot,humid,early flowering,late flowering,more blooms.less blooms are characteristics that have resulted from adapting to local conditions and are not taxanomic keys to determine the difference between Ipomoea carnea and Ipomoea carnea subsp.fistulosa...

Here is what you stated

"Beth, Your summer temps better suited for carnea than mine. I'm sure yours
will start filling out as it warms there. Mine will just tolerate summer temps
waiting for the cooler days and nights of fall.
It's a whole different story for carnea ssp fistulosa. It loves the hot temps and grows well, sometimes blooming by July/Aug. It's still blooming when
I return it to the g house late fall. I really prefer it over carnea.
fistulosa in Nov"

The mistake here is the conclusion that all Ipomoea carnea do better in cooler temperatures and that all Ipomoea carnea subspecies fistulosa will do better in hotter temperatures...or any other variations as per climate factors...the difference in the taxonomy is not a climate associated factor...

Your description implies that Ipomoea carnea as a taxanomic entity is less adapted to hot summer temperatures than Ipomoea carnea subspecies fistulosa as a taxanomic entity...and this is an over-generalization regarding the differences between I.carnea and I.carnea subsp.fistulosa...

There is Ipomoea carnea from certain geographic areas that will do well in very hot temperatures...there is Ipomoea carnea that may not...

There is I.carnea subsp.fistulosa that may prefer hotter temperatures...there is I.carnea subsp.fistulosa that may not...the response to climate depends on the geographic locality that the plants genes originated from...as there are very hot dry areas of Mexico/Cetral America/South America and there are cooler humid regions...and I. carnea and I.carnea subsp.fistulosa can be found in both areas...

Ipomoea purpurea that is from Iran is better adapted to hot and dry more so than Ipomoea purpurea from the rain forest of Brazil...the same applies to Ipomoea nil from the same areas...

So to conclude that Ipomoea purpurea likes hot and dry and Ipomoea nil likes humid would be an overgeneralization because both taxanomic entities can be adapted to various climates...it depends on the particular geographic strain...

You may happen to have an Ipomoea carnea which might be subspecies fistulosa > and the particular geographic strain that you have has a certain response to your climate >but that response to your climate can be present in both taxa...

Hopefully a clarification of the points in question has occurred...

TTY,...

Ron

Ron, thank you. I understand what you are saying.
I know plants can and do adapt in order to survive.
All I had to go on re the temps were my own observations.
If I could get the culture right for carnea, I might see a
different pattern emerge.

Jackie

Depending on the adaptational characteristics of each geographic strain...different flowering patterns may emerge...your particular I.carnea may be a strain that has adapted to flower exactly the way you are seeing it and so it may not change it's flowering behavior...

It will be interesting to see how the different geographic strains that you have continue to display differing flowering patterns ...

TTY,...

Ron

Ron thanks, should prove interesting. Will send update later.

Jackie

I soaked these seeds on the 27th. Planted them on the 28th, and put them on 78 degrees heat. Frank

This message was edited Mar 31, 2007 8:44 PM

This message was edited Mar 31, 2007 9:26 PM

Here is my ugly winter carnea stick coming back to life with new branches.

New branches coming up from the roots, too.

Another great thread, Patootie - I liked Ron's dance between genes and geography, Frank's close-up of the seeds' hairdos and Beth's spring transformation of those "ugly" old sticks - not "boring" at all

Beth, How tall is your carnea stick and have you ever pruned it back?
I would love it if pruning mine caused new shoots to come up from the
roots.

Jackie

I never pruned mine! It got up about 3 feet (I planted it in the fall) and then the cold weather made it drop its leaves. It might be coming back sooner than yours because I have it in the greenhouse and it's warm now.

Thanx Karen , Missed your post cause I take too long to reply.
I think it's a interesting thread and I know I have learned from it.
Hope others do too.
Jackie


This message was edited Apr 9, 2007 5:03 PM

Oops, did it again. Grabbed a sandwich, let the little dogs out and then
responded .
Beth, mine is in the g house. The ugly, upper branches have some new green shoots. They aren't growing noticebly and it's the same thing it did last yr.
I am going to prune it back and if it doesn't shape up I'm tossing it.
Big talk cause I have my back up plant. LOL

Jackie

Patootie, if you don't mind, I'm going to answer your dmail that has cheered me up considerably here. Do I mind your commenting that I "have a way with words"? hee hee - words are to me as a ball of yarn is to a perpetual kitten - I have fun with them and often worry that I've gotten so carried away that I might have hurt someone else's feelings. So, no, I didn't and thank you so much for making my day.

You're welcome and breathing a big sigh of relief here. LOL

This a pretty current photo, I don't know how i missed it.. what a nice color there. I really like that flower, never did see mine bloom, it died out.

A.