the greening of a pond

Ok, my pond seems to be alive and well - too well. The fish are always hungry and have adjusted nicely to their new home. About a week or two ago the water started to get greener and greener and now I can't even see the bottom any more. The fish are invisible until I throw some food into the feed ring. Somehow they can see or smell food very quickly. They act as if they were water shovels and skim the food right off the edge of the ring, a foot or two at a time. It's quite amazing to watch. But that's not why I'm writing.

The pond folks, whose advice I've taken in my pond design, ( http://www.skippysstuff.com/index.html ) tell me that all is normal and that the pond SHOULD turn green as it equalizes itself to the environment. I should add more plants, bacteria and time and all will be well - eventually. I don't know if I should add more plants as I worry about becoming overcrowded as they mature in this heat and full sun. Like how many feet appart should I have water lilies to provide shade? Should I plant other things in the pond itself. I mean I have a concrete pond and everything needs to be in pots. Tall things need giant pots in order not to fall over in windy weather. I wanted to avoid that. We get strong winds and hurricanes around here.

But generally speaking how many plants are too many? And how long does it take to clear up a pond? My two 150 gallon tanks are slimey with growth and various marginals are growing in there. I suspect that the bio process is not quite ready to eat the algae and wonder about the whole process anyway. Does it really work?

Many of you must have had green ponds at one time or another. Do they really clean themselves up given enough time? How much time?

Ooops, that picture is a week old and does not show all the plants in there now. I'll shoot another in the morning.

The advice that you received was correct. Your pond will probably be green for a while until it has it's own little biosystem going. Most of us have hit the panic button the first time our ponds have turned green. When I had my first little pond it kept turning green and I would empty it out and scrub all the algea out (good thing it was small....only around 6'x6') only to have it happen again within a week or two. I finally gave up and left it alone and put a couple of lilies in there and it cleared up by itself in a couple of weeks. How many lilies or water plants you have is a matter of personal preferance. From the picture it looks like you have 4 or 5 in there already. Unless you want to add more for asthetic reasons I would say just leave it alone for a while and your pond will find it's own balance. You are doing great! Your pond is beautiful. Please keep taking pics for us as things progress. :^)

fredrump,
There are never too many plants as far as a pond goes, concerning the water quality. We usually steer away from them becauase we want a better view of the fish, but that reason semi-contradicts the health of the pond. Especially here in Florida, you will suffer from green water from time to time. Being a newer pond, let yours settle into it's own bio-system for a while, then deal with what eventually doesn't clear up on it's own. You didn't mention if you have a UV light on your filter system, which will kill the green water type of algae. It will not kill the algae on the walls or rocks, but small amounts of that kind is also slightly beneficial to your pond. Make sure you have enough oxygen for the water. Lack of oxygen can green up your water quickly, and green water can suck out even more, eventually harming your fish. Everything is the big circle of life (no I won't sing) in a pond. Don't be tempted to overfeed your fish either. The more fish poop, the more fertilizer there is for algae, and again the greener the water. We all get tempted to feed too much! Make sure your filter is adequate for the number of gallons of water you have.

Definitely "new pond" syndrome, it will clear up all on it's own. Refrain from making nay water changes...it will prolong the greening.

Hi Fred,

Sounds like you are coming along like normal. The 1st time my pond turned green I almost died but it eventually balanced out too. I did put some barley straw bales in and it may have helped. I put in 2 bead filters and little difference the thing that helped the most was the UV light. I highly recommend the UV lights!!!

I'll second the UV light suggest!! My first year I constantly battled the water quality - my pond is 18' in diameter - spent hundreds on algae destroyer. Got 2 UV lights the second year, (per advice from DG, Snapple45, I think) and the water cleared beautifully - still pond water, not swimming pool water - but a nice pond shade and, because the algae was controlled, I could easily see the bottom and all the fish. HIGHLY RECOMMEND! Dax

Per the advice of "Skippy's Ponds": 'As stated elsewhere, we believe the only way to go is with an out of the pond filtration system. This is a true Bio-Logical filter, therefore all those fancy UV's and other such stuff are useless. Actually using a UV with a biological filter is an oxymoron. The UV kills bacteria along with the algae spores and bacterium are one of the 4 keys to make this biological process happen. For more explanation on why this type of filter works, see FM Cure for Green Water elsewhere on this site.

Note: You will need some patience. Not now, but when you get the filter up and running. Under ideal circumstances... good weather, right bacteria, etc. Mother Nature takes her time. It may take from 4 to 8 weeks before the first cycle happens. Green to Clear. The pond needs to turn green for the bacteria to begin its magic. Do not be surprised if it cycles several times, but wait it out, don't clean, relax and it will happen for you. Here are a few things that will hinder progress... Using any of the following: Chorine in the water or any other additive that kills bacteria, cleaning it, pond decorated with either limestone or sandstone. This type of mineral matter is soft and erodes easily. The suspended particles will attract algae and/or your water will always be murky. Hint: Grand Canon and the mighty muddy Colorado River.'

Ergo: I do not have a UV light but I have to wait 4 to 8 weeks. Sigh.

Here's this mornings shot of the pond as is. I have 10 various waterlilies in there. Some are growing faster then others.

Fred

PS just saw the posts coming aboard while I was out at Lowes getting more lumber for my rec room in the garage. Now my advice (see above) was to stay away from UV lights as they kill both algae and bacteria which eat the algae. Besides, I wouldn't even know where to put the UV.

some more shots

One of my filters from above

I still have to fill the island with regular old dirt, sand, anything (which costs $400 per load around here if you can get it).

The waterfall in the rear of this photo is turning brown with algae where the water runs down. The stepping island in the front has caves built in under it.

Everything needs more green plantlife. Here's the upper falls from the bio tanks

and lastly a shot from the rear of the main waterfall.

Fred I tried the biological filter, went to 2 huge bead filters($3000.00) and finally the UV light. If I had it to do over I would have done the UV light and nothing else. Everybody has to find what works best for them. Good luck.

Jeri

jeri, you mean the bio filter did not work for you? Can you speculate on why? Nature doesn't have UV lights to clear it's waters. Somehow moving water has to clear up if it runs a similar course even in a man made brook, don't you think? I imagine the bio filter to be a copy of water running through a maze of plants down a hill. Somehow the water comes out clear at the bottom.

I'll let this run through the summer to see if this action can be replicated in my pond.

Fred

I'm with Jeri... I had all kinds of bio filtration and a whole summer of green water in spite of all my calculations etc. Finally in late August I got the UV light and wished I had ordered it in May :)

Fred.. you may be able to get a good balance.
I hope you can - it just proved impossible for me.
Our man made contained ponds are not the same as a natural pond that constantly has fresh water moving in and water moving out. Its not just "moving water" thru plants but the fact that nature has fresh water coming in. I love vegi filters etc but I just got tired of green water all summer. But good luck to you, I hope it is successful :)

charlotte

Just where does one put these UV lights? Does everyone have them?
Fred

I don't use one. I have 100 gal of mechanical filtration and 100 gal of biological trickle tower on my 7k gal pond.

My UV is between the pump and the bio filter.

Water comes thru the pump...up the line out of the pond to the UV light (it is hid in rock) and then to the biofilter and back to pond.

No not everyone uses them but many of us do. I really tried to do without one but got tired of the green water.

I've got to add a second again to the UV light. I have approximately 7,000 gallons running over 85', with two ponds. Since mine is to promote a backyard wildlife habitat, the 18' diameter pond has a walk down beach, etc. Believe me, natural was the only way I was going - one with nature and all that - . I had Biofiltration exclusively. Because of the size of my pond, I was told that the water clarity/quality would balance out within 4 months - NOT!

Whatever works is cool for you, fredrump, but I enjoy the pond so much more now because I can see all the fishes, plants, etc. under the water. And the fish have been VERY healthy - in fact, I'm going to have to give some away this spring. - Dax

I've sent a couple of pics of the pond and stream, just look at the clarity of the water. I never got that without the UV lights.

Oh, forgot to say that the depth of that area of pond is 3'.

This message was edited Mar 13, 2007 9:43 AM

And here is the mid stream in late September -

I have used both. I used the UV lite first, it works well, but you have to have one large enough, replace bulbs (supposed to yearly), then I got the bio filter, and it has out done the lites. Once it gets going and I put water hyacins in the top and it has outworked anything else I have used in the past 10 years.

My UV lite bulb lasted 2 years, and I found replacement bulbs way cheaper than pond suppliers on eBay. It made a huge difference in my back pond. It's pretty big, and the bio-filter is actually a separate pond plumbed to it. Everything would clear up for a few weeks, and then something would trigger an algae bloom, and I'd be back to pea soup. The UV light put an end to that. My front pond, which is much smaller, doesn't have the same issue; it's been clear for years (knock wood).

Dax080

That is lovely!!! So relaxing.

Fred,

I have a 9' waterfall into about 8' pond with 4' bio filter from the small pond down to the large pond. The 1st year it turned green and stayed that way. I put barley straw into the pond and over night the string algae disappeared but I didn't care for the dark color of the water. The 2nd year I installed a 5000 gal bead filter and by the end of that year I put another 3000 gal bead filter. The 3rd year we installed the UV light and it has worked ever since.

You have to change the bulbs out every year and it is a pain with a light as big as mine. The bulb is $100.00 if you don't break it or the sleeve it fits in but I've broke the sleeve twice now and ended up replacing the whole light last year.

That's about it and who ever said ponds take care of themselves lied!!! The bead filters have to be cleaned about every other day and I'm not big enough to do it so my DH has that job but other than that now the pond pretty much takes care of itself. LOL

Jeri

The UV's work very well in my set up. I wouldn't be without them. Mother Nature sometimes need a little assist in a closed pond system. The bulbs are pretty easy to replace. They are not cheap though. In the original work installing the pond my DH tried to arrange everything so that I could manage it entirely on my own if I had to. This wasn't any mushy valentiny thing he had going on, he just wanted to make sure HE didn't have much to do himself! No, the pond does not take care of itself, but the routine weekly maintenance isn't much - clean the filter and skimmer matts. Once a month drain the settling chamber on the filter. That involves turning a valve that leads to a sump and then adding some water back into the pond. I vacuum the bottom once a year too.

The link is for a very reputable company which has an extensive catalogue of commerical fish hatchery, home and pro aquarium and pond equipment. They have an excellent selection of inline UV sterilizers. Sizing is critical, under wattage is a total waste of money. Over wattage is also a waste of money. You get no more bang for your buck. Be forewarned, they are expensive.

http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/listings.categories/ssid/382

OK, I hear you guys. What DAX has is essentially what I wanted to have - a brook running from a higher pond which is set below the bio filter down to a lower larger pond with an additional waterfall. The problem here is getting the rocks. Everything has to be shipped in from up north some place. I was at the rock store yesterday (actually a yard which supplies landscapers and contractors with all kinds of stone, gravel, sand, rock, etc). The nice round big rock was $670 per ton. I bought a size down from that for $270. It's a multi-colored gravel rock with up to 2 inch stones. I will be putting that stone in my upmost pool and plant marginals in it. So the bio will fall into a rock/plant field, then there will be open water (for now) and then another pond filled with water hyacinths which then drops into the main pond.

But larger rock transported from Tennessee or Pennsylvania costs a bundle and its cheaper to have a concrete pond built from scratch.

I'm very much surprised to hear DAX saying he/she needed UV lights while running such a nice brook. That's a revelation.

I'm still trying to picture the UV light setups out there. Pictures on the web don't explain much. I have an external pump which has a filter attached to it whose function I don't quite understand. It's basically a leafcatcher but, being that the pump sucks water out of two inlets in the bottom of the pond which are covered with broken granite, such debris really has little chance of ever winding up in that filter and it does look clean.

Other then that I only have the skimmer bucket and the bio-filters. So, if I have 2 inch pipes in and out of the pump, do I just cut them and buy a lamp to fit into a 2 inch pipe or what do I need? I guess I should photograph my pipes so you can see what things look like now.

The only maintenance I see so far is cleaning the skimmer bucket every once in a while. I was following the guidance of 'Skippy's Ponds' whose 150 customer installations don't really have any maintenance. Those bios run for years and years before they need cleaning. They also have clear water helped by the plants growing in their bio filters. I will be away from my pond during the Summer months and expected life to be normal there in my absence. Am I chasing a dream? I guess only tme will tell.

Couple more questions - should my rocks be just under the water level or just above? I'm talking about where I'll have plants growing. What will look better?

Then, I need to elevate a rather large pot onto some concrete blocks. Should I just use the blocks as is or treat them with Muriatic Acid or something to decrease their alkaline content? Will it matter for 5 blocks?

That is what you do with an "inline" UV. Usually they go in after the pump and before the filter. That pump and filter should be an important part of the filtration process. Use the gallons per hour rating of the pump and the total gallons in the pond to size the UV. The volume of water should move just slow enough past the light to allow time for the algae to clump and die. Too fast and there isn't sufficient time for the light to work. The wattage should be strong enough to handle both the flow rate and volume. Various manufacturers have different sizing methods because of slightly different configurations of the water path through the light chamber.

I know what you mean about the cost of rocks. They aren't any cheaper in the north either.
I use a pond service to look after our ponds when we are gone. It is called daughter! There are companies up here who specialize in pond maintenance for vacationers. If "daughter" wasn't available I would have to hire out for anything over a week. Every pond is a little different. The first full year can be a doosie of a learning curve.

Hey, fredrump, I followed snapple45's advice last year when I got my Savio Skimmer/Filter with the two UV light holders - and the lights. Is the perfect size, but I've got two 57 watt UV lights running 24/7.
Can't get any better advice - I'm completely satisfied.

As far as rocks - that's where I totally lucked out - I found all the limestone that you see on the edges from my back yard!! We have a woods and when we starting checking it out, found slabs of limestone everywhere! Did not have to buy one stone (except for the fake one over the skimmer). Now I see how truly lucky I was - I certainly couldn't have swung for that much stone at those prices!

Dax

Boy Dax, I'm sure happy you are happy with those UV's. For the expense, if they didn't get the job done, I wouldn't be surprised if you hunted me down for compensation.

Free limestone? Arrrrrrrrrgg. I paid until my eyeballs bled.

Free limestone and a maintenance-DAUGHTER? You guys are TOOO lucky!!!

I have to brag on Jim until he got sick last year has done a wonderful job of keeping the pumps going and filters clean. I can't wait to get it back up and running again soon.

jeri11, I hope this spring brings you and Jim a good year.

It has already been a good year and getting better every day. Thank you Snapple45.

Fred,

You have a lovely pond. I know how frustrating it is to have green water when you want it to look so sparkling and clean. But it will find its balance. My first year pond was a constant struggle with water clarity issues. Last year I did a major remodel of my pond and I did not have ANY water issues. Even though it was essentially a first year pond, I never had an algae bloom, the water remained crystal clear and everything in my pond thrived. I know this is the exception, not the rule, so I don't really know why I didn't have the typical new pond green stage. The only things I can think of that might have contributed to my luck are the following:

1. a 70 foot gravel stream - natural filter
2. barley straw - I swear that stuff works miracles!!!
3. lots of shade - my pond receives very little direct sunlight. You can help shade your pond by adding more lilies (I've read that it is good to cover up to 75% of your pond's surface)

I do not have any UV lights and I have a biofilter based on skippy's design. Hope some of that is helpful.

Edited to say - I'm not knocking UV lights - I'm just saying I don't have them.

My pond: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/655669/ or http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/622470/

This message was edited Mar 15, 2007 8:50 PM

This message was edited Mar 15, 2007 8:52 PM

OH MY!!! what a link to a pretty waterfall. This picture shoud be framed. http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=2505228

I'd love to see an update on your water stream/pond. I love New England and it's rocks and spent two months there roaming about this past Summer. Maine, NH and VT are among my favority Summer & Fall places but you can have the cold weather in Winter and the mud in the Spring.

Songsofjoy, you did what I tried but couldn't do here in flat and rockless Florida. I'm now trying to simulate the environment using colored river rock in my water path. Bought $250 worth of marginals today to plant in the rock/gravel where I had about 10 inches of water before. I haven't planted any yet and wonder if I should just stick them in the rocks sans pot or plant then as is in their pots. I bought a bunch of pots made out of some kind of brown fiber. I might stick the smaller ones in there. The roots can find their way out of there if they wish. I moved 1 1/2 tons of rock bucket by bucket into my water, up and over the concrete water path walls. These rocks look great but I suspect they'll slime over over time?

Now you say you followed Skippy's design as I did. You have an advantage in that you don't have full sun but that has it's drawbacks too. I'm suprised your lilies bloomed but will they do that again this year? I had a previous pond in the shade and most of the time didn't even bother to run the filter, just the pump over a 6' waterfall made out of lavarock. The rock was full of ferns. But the lilies bloomed only the first year.

I placed my pond in full sunlight in order to get lilies to bloom as part of my grand garden design. The jury is still out as to whether I have to get UV lights. I know I need more lilies but I'd rather wait till I can divide what I have. At the nursery I was today they wanted $35 per lily. I passed and bought lots of smaller bog plants instead.

Now my big question. I keep hearing about barley Straw and simply assumed that one would have to buy bales of threashed Barley grass and out that in the pond. A google shows me that also lots of byproducts made out if Barley Straw. So, when you guys speak of Barley Straw, just what are we talking about. I could envison a bale of straw in front of one of my water drops so that the water would have to filter through the straw. I see at http://stillpondfarmstore.com/rspbb8k.html where two bales cost $69 with free shipping. Should I try that or some liquid extract? I would prefer such a natural solution to installing UV lights.

Fred
PS the cloudy water doesn't seem to bother the fish and they still see the food almost instantly. How do they do that? I sure hides the fish from predators though.

Hi Fred,

As for how to plant your marginals, you could go either way. I would check to see if any of them are aggressive growers first. In Florida you have a much longer growing season so an aggressive grower could take over your pond in one season if it is not contained in a pot. I planted some of my marginals directly in gravel, others are potted.

I was shocked to see my lilies bloom last year. I bought them for the lily pads and never expected blooms. When my first one came, I was pleasantly surprised, but assumed it was because they were first year plants and I was sure I would only have 1 or 2 blooms. Imagine my surprise when they continously developed new buds and bloomed all summer! Between six plants I probably had about 30 blooms. I know that is not nearly as much as I would get in full sun, but I am hopeful that it wasn't just a first year fluke! (My first year pond had lilies in it and they never bloomed in my pond even though I brought them home from the nursery blooming.) I guess the jury's still out on that one though. We'll see what happens this summer!

Don't spend $35 on lilies!! I ordered mine online for much less than that. I want to say they were somewhere between $10-15. I can't recall where I got them from. I thought it was The Water Garden but they are listing theirs at $23 right now. Either way, there are many reputable online sources where you can spend a fraction of the cost. All my lilies and marginals were ordered online. They were small, but healthy root systems and everything multiplied and thrived the first year even though my pond wasn't done till July (which is almost winter here in NH, LOL!)

As for the barley, I know it comes in many forms. I bought a bag of pellets and placed the whole bag in my biofilter. I bought them about 3 days after starting up my pond, when the water was just starting to turn a bit cloudy. Within 24 hours of putting the barley pellets in, my water was literally crystal clear. I was amazed. This year I plan to buy something other than the pellets. Maybe the barley balls. I only got the pellets because it was late in the season and that's all my local pond store had.

Isn't it funny how the fish can sense the food? I'm convinced the little guys have some way of communicating with each other. Even if I toss the food into a corner of the pond where only 3-4 fish are gathered, within moments every fish from all corners of the pond come flying over. They are too cute. I caught a glimpse of mine under the ice the other day. They were moving about and I counted all but 2 of them. This was my first winter with fish so I was quite excited to see they've made it through!

Thanks for the compliments on my waterfall picture. I like that one too, except the aluminum ladder acting as a temporary bridge prevents me from framing it, LOL. I now have a nice cedar bridge, so this summer I will take some better pictures.

As far as getting water plants is concerned check out Texas Water Lilies. They are listed on Garden Watchdog and have excellent prices. Here is a direct link for you http://www.texaswaterlilies.com/

I too bought lilies on the net from Texas Waterlilies. I have ten in pots. They are growing nicely but no blooms yet. When you buy plants via mail they are of necessity small or young. The plants at the nursery come in big pots fully grown and with flowers to boot. Big difference. When you are anxious to see some flowers in your pond, the tempation is great to buy them even at $35 a piece but I resisted. :-) Got to let grow what has started.

Today I bought and added one bottle of Barley and Peat juice to the pond (Tetra Pond Barley & Peat Extract). I'll add another bottle tomorrow. Each is for 2500 gallons and really not enough for the pond but I don't want to mess with the balance too fast.

Has anybody ever used bales of straw to reduce algae? Something like this? http://stillpondfarmstore.com/rspbb8kit2pk.html

I'm not sure if this voodoo fish culture or if it really works. Seems like a lot of money for some straw but if it works?

Fred

The barley straw bales I bought were about 8"X12". This was about 10 years ago and they weren't that expensive but with inflation I guess that would be about right.