Smoke Primers

Hi.Could somebody tell me the diameter of a standard(50ml)Cape Smoke Primer Disc?Many Thanks.

You might email the place you're thinking of buying them from--I think there are a couple places you can get stuff like this from and I don't know if they are all the same or not.

My curiosiity is over-riding my desire to not look like an uninformed, green, newbie. What is a Cape Smoke Primer Disc?

It's basically chemicals from smoke impregnated on a piece of paper. There are some seeds that only germinate after there's been a fire, so the theory is that if you soak the seeds with the chemicals from the smoke it'll fool them into thinking there's been a fire so they'll germinate.

Wow. They only germinate after a fire. I've never heard of that, and although I AM pretty green I've done hours upon hours of research and never ran across this. I find it fascinating.

This message was edited Mar 3, 2007 11:43 PM

I know that some South African plants fall into this category, probably others as well from areas where fires are a regular occurrence. After a fire, the area is cleared out and so seedlings can sprout and get the sun that they need to grow, before the fire plant growth can be too dense and seedlings don't have a chance to grow, so the plants evolved so that the seeds would only germinate after a fire because that's when the seedlings could actually have a chance to grow.

Here's a link with some info
http://finebushpeople.co.za/smoke_primer.html

This message was edited Mar 3, 2007 6:08 PM

Aren't there some conifers that also need the 'birth by fire'?

Hi.This is nothing to do with flames,heat or ash.In 2004 Australian researchers isolated the molecule in the smoke.It's this that triggers germination by breaking dormancy.If this is what's contained in the primers we use I'm not quite sure as they said it would take 5 years to develop for public sale.Apparently this will also benefit germination of seeds that are never likely to experience fire.

Yeah, that's what I was saying too in one of my earlier posts about the paper being impregnated with the chemicals from the smoke. But the one I've seen has been available for a few years, I bought some at some point either in 2004 or 2005 so I know it's been available at least since then. So I guess they were able to commercialize it faster than they thought! Either that or the info you ran across is a new improvement that'll hit the market in a couple years.

Lodgepole pines (Pinus contortus) have two kinds of cones. The serotinous cones need fire to open them, as they are very tightly sealed. After the Yellowstone fires of 1988, lodgepoles sowed themselves prolifically in some of the burned areas and are growing back very, very densely. The Yellowstone ecosystem is a fabulous one for studying fire ecology.

I saw this thread when I did a search for smoke in the seed germination forum. I'm still surprised that it's the only one on Dave's. I haven't tried the discs.

I know this may soudn a bit crazy, btu do ya think if you have a fire and take the ash and make like a tea from it would it work to germinate the seeds?

It doesn't sound crazy, but I don't think it would work. It is a chemical in the smoke that helps the seeds germinate. The liquid smoke you buy in the grocery store to use in cooking meat actually has that chemical in it, so you can make a diluted solution out of that and soak the seeds. That's one way of doing it. Also, you can put dry pine needles or other kindling on top of your seed flat and light that on fire to expose the seeds to real smoke. What I really want to know is how long you have to expose them but I cannot find that information anywhere.

Some people have tried using pine sawdust on top of the planting soil and lighting it. It should be encouraged to burn for 15 minutes. After it is burned, then water carries the chemicals down into the soil.

Thing is, some seeds need the heat, some the combustion chemicals, and some both. Here's a pretty helpful page on it:

http://depts.washington.edu/propplnt/2003guidelines/group1/Smoke%20Infusion.htm

Dumb question here. I fi put pine neeedle s or such on top of my flats to burn, how do I keep the flats from melting. Or is there no way to stop that.

Thanks for the link, gonan take a look at it after dinner. : )

I haven't heard of people doing this in a flat, just a pot. Once you get them germinating, then you can transfer them.

That is an excellent link! Thanks so much. I will read it in detail.