Soiless Mix?

I know I have seen this before but I have searched for an hour and my pots are waiting..LOL What are the proportions of peat, perlite and vermiculite for starting seeds? I do know that it can vary for some times of seeds, more peaty, fast draining etc. But what is "standard" and I can go from there. I know peaty would be more peat and I assume fast draining would be more perlite?

yardqueen-there is a ingredient in the soiless mix that is very important and that is an addition of lime to bring the PH up to around 6.2-6.5. If you are using straight peat and then adding perlite and vermiculite, you will have a PH of anywhere from 3 to 4.5 which is way to acidic for most plants.
When starting seeds-I just use the soiless mix and it works fine. When I am potting up plumeria cuttings I add some perlite to the mix for extra drainage.

Thanks so much for that info, tigerlily! That might explain why some of the things I planted died. ;-) Tamara

I am trying my own soiless mix this year. I'm using 1/3 each perlite, vermiculite, and spagham moss. I got this information from Garden Supply. I am attaching the link.

http://www.gardeners.com/How-to-Start-Seeds/default/5062.page

Someone else said in another post that they swore by their seed starting mix.

Its too early for me to give you any real results.

Tigerlily123
I have heard this before about soils containing peat moss and the addition of lime. But the information provided stated that the lime added to the potting soils to raise the PH leaches out resulting in a low PH anyway. Very bad... How do you replace the lime in the soils in pots that are already potted? Since I had planned to make my own I have already bought peat and perlite, but have not found the vermiculite. And now I guess I need to find lime? Where and how is that available, and how do I add it?

Pennfeather
thanks for the link! I will read it now. What do you plan to do about the PH issue?

Pennefeather-if you go to your link-you will see in the yellow box to the left where it addresses the PH of peat and to add limestone.

Yardqueen-the lime that they add to the soiless mix is a slow release and lasts at least 6 months. By that time, you have the plant in the ground, or it needs to be repotted, or you can add lime. Since you already have the peat and perlite ( you don't need the vermiculite), you can find lime at garden centers and follow the directions in applying it ( you mix it with water and it is fast acting, but you have to keep applying it-carefully) The problem here for you is that you don't have a really good PH meter ( I am assuming!) to tell you when to apply the lime-and it can get out of hand for you really fast in terms of your PH . I prefer the soiless mix-in the end, it is much easier!

Tigerlily123
I am sure the soiless mis is easier and I wish I had bought it instead, but I bought the peat and perlite already, and I don't remember seeing the soiless mix. Where do you get it? I am sure I will get it next year, but for now I guess I have to use this... And no I do not have a ph meter and I know they are expensive. Now I am worried my seeds will not do waell or come up at all. And I was also planning to water with h2o2 and h2o mixture. What will that do to the PH? I am thinking I don't know what I am doing with these seeds and maybe I should have stuck to buying plants. I really want to grow all these new types of seeds I have though...

Pennefeather, Don't know if it was me that you read swears by Gardeners suppy germination mix but I have been using it for years and never had a problem with it. No damping off, seedlings are healthy. I do use a diluted fertilizer after a few true leaves appear when I water.

Last year someone post you can mix baking soda in water to raise PH , but I can't find where in my notes .
I had a lot of trouble with damping off last year .
I kept saying I was going to buy a PH Meter - the ones I found either looks to cheap to work or were to expensive .
Worms-way has one for about $12 which included shipping and another for about $20 + shipping but it's only in catalog . The $20 one won't show up on order page . I emailed them but they haven't gotten back to me - so - hello ebay

Ladygardener1, I am pretty sure it was you. I was too cheap to buy it myself. I'm hoping that mine works out well.

Now to start people posting --
BEST HOURS FOR PLANTING SEEDS
Sowing between 2pm and 4pm gives a better rate of germination than sowing in the morning or early evening. This is because of the temperature-sensitive phase of the germination process is completed at night when soil temperatures are lower.
http://www.montburggardens.com.au/gardenlore.asp

Wouldn't that be for outdoors?

A CHEAP AND EFFECTIVE DO IT YOURSELF PH TEST

A quick pH soil test. Drop a small piece of soil into a jar of vinegar. If the vinegar starts to bubble, your soil has plenty of lime. If there are no bubbles, lime your soil with 100g of lime to the square metre.

You can also sprinkle baking soda on a tablespoon of moist soil. If it fizzes it has a PH below 5 (too acid). What I need to know now is how much lime to add to my pots that are already planted? I have tried to google but I can't figure it out.

Yardqueen-don't be discouraged, this is just a minor problem, and can be remedied by either of two ways.

First-and this would be my choice-go buy a bag of potting mix at HD-I think they are like $5/bag ( not sure how much you need-how many seeds you are starting) and mix almost half and half with the perlite and use that to start the seeds. Make sure that after you water down the mix well, that you only mist the seeds until they germinate ( I cover the container with plastic =saran wrap will work to keep the moisture in) and use warm water to mist to keep the soil temps up. That way the soil will not retain too much water.

Second choice is to mix the peat and perlite and then use hydrated lime ( you can buy this at a garden center-5 lb bag is about $ 5. The directions say to use 1T/gallon of water ( use warm water to help the lime dissolve better) and drench the peat/perlite mix well. Because the peat is so acidic and you have a long way to bring the PH up to the 6's, I would double the amt of lime to 2T/gall of water. After a few days to a week-or after the seedlings are up a week or two ( if you want to start the seeds now), I might go add and lime the mix again with 1 T of lime/gallon, only this time rinse the lime off the seedlings right away with water. I am thinking that they are saying that the PH should go up a point per application of 1T-but I am not positive about this, and you really won't know without a good PH tester ( mine was $ 180 -but since I do this for a living, it has paid for itself over and over-maybe a really cheap one will at least tell you whether it is in the 4's or 6's on the PH scale).

Another reason not to use straight peat is that there is no wetting agent in it--and it is very hard and agravating to get wet! Soiless mixes have a wetting agent and so much easier to work with.

Tigerlily123,
I plan to get a PH tester of some sort, but what did you think about the baking soda to test PH? I know that is not an accurate measure but it tell you if it is too acid... Also same source said you can use baking soda to raise PH...I sure do wish I had bought the soiless mix, but I have already used the peat/ perlite mix in a large number of strarting pots. I have a lot of unopened bags I could take back to WM if I can find the soiless mix. I have a LOT more pots to fill... Where might I find it without going to the internet? I don't really want to order it, but I guess I could if the shipping is not too much...

I know what you mean about the peat and water, but I have solved that problem. It works relly well for me. I put the peat and perlite in a tub and add water and stir and mix with my hands (kind of like making meat loaf...LOL)

If ant of you have access to the vender Suothern States Garden Centers,they are franchised up and down the east coast. They sell Tobacco and Vegetable Soil Mix,currently a 2.8 cubic foot bag for $9-10 dollars.It is perfect for starting seeds and will last at least one full growing season.Absorbs water easily.

Or some other thoughts on this -- if the thread is still active.

Use your peat/perlite, and instead of buying vermiculite, get some sand. The coarser the better. 1/3 of each and mix. Wet what you will use in one day with hot water and let it sit, drain and cool.

Fill your pots 2/3 full with this non-sterlie mix and then put a purchased soilless mix like Miracle Grow or something as the top 1/3 where the seeds will germinate. Top water only with a mister or anything you have that will yield a really light shower until they get their 2nd set of leaves and make sure they get adequate light -- lots of light. LOTS of light. (I'm not going to put it in bold, but you get the idea.)

This should get you through this season in great shape.

I have another question to ask you -- if you didn't clean your bathroom sink for a year and had a slow drip in the sink, would the resultant stain be rusty or white? Or the crust/crud on the faucet? Indiana is the Limestone state and our water deposits in a situation like this would be white because of the lime crust. I've never tested the water ph, but I know it would be base as opposed to acidic. If this is the case in Texas, maybe your tapwater would be enough lime to use what you have (peat & perlite).

Another thought: I believe there are a lot of people who only use 100% vermiculite to start seeds. What I don't know is if there are people who use 100% perlite to start seeds. Maybe you could start a new thread and ask this question.

And finally, I mix 10-15% sand in with any purchased mix I buy because it does something wonderful to the texture of the soilless mixes. It opens them up. You don't notice it right away, not until after they've been growing in the same medium for more than 3 or 4 weeks. I always think of it as "breaking down" when those soilless mixes turn sort of sour and crusty looking on top. The perlite turns nasty brown and the moss starts growing. The sand prevents this and it looks fresher and the roots seem more far-reaching for a lack of a better term. They are not fatter roots, just more well-branched with much better separation. If I were pressed to explain it, I would say it acts like perlite in terms of aeration, but is "friendlier" to the roots. Perlite is very hard & jagged. If I were a root, I wouldn't like it. Sand has sharp corners, but actually has a lot of straight sides to it. Perlite floats up, sand sinks to the bottom, which is neither here nor there, but I thought I'd mention it.

To add sand, I just look at how much premade mix is in my little bin and add sand from a bucket with a cottage cheese container. I only know it's about 10-15% because once I actually measured how much sand I used and it was 7 parts of soilless mix to one part sand (12.5%). The downside is the rootball is more likely to fall apart when moving to the next size pot, however the plants take off, so it doesn't appear to hurt them, or set them back in any way; it's just messy.

Suzy

Yardqueen-sorry I didn't respond to your last question-I think that liming the peat that you have already used is the only way to go. The hydrated lime is easy to find and use. I think if you use double the amt the first time, and the normal amt a week later that will help-and maybe a 3rd time the following week should bring your PH up.
Funnily enough I am going through the same situation. About a month ago I was filling pots in one of the grhouses and came across some bags that didn't have hardly any perlite. I figured that they had just left the perlite out and I added some and kept on filling the pots. But that Monday I called the supplier and told them about the dirt, and they called the rep for the company that the dirt came from and he came out and got samples and tested them. The tests came back that there was no lime additive in it and the PH of the samples were 3.5. I dumped the dirt-about 220 flats that I had filled with it. Pain in the butt-but in the long run, it was the best thing to do. Not much grows in 3.5PH. The rep knew it, and he is replacing all the dirt and then some! A lot more-which is overly generous on their part, but they know that I can't use peat without the lime in it.
Depending on how large the plants were if I had already planted in it ( which I haven't, but you have) I would either replant them in good dirt, or start liming.
I have never heard of baking soda for raising the PH, and even if it did, I don't think it would do it fast enough. Water with a higher PH won't either. You have to raise it 3 whole points ( from 3.5 to 6 ) and the only thing that will raise it that high and fast is hydrated lime.
As for finding a soiless mix, I would go to a garden center that grows some of their plants and see if they will sell you some bags, or order it on line and pay the shipping. Park seed sells soiless mixes. Google "nursery supplies in your area" and see who carries it and if they will sell to you if you come pick it up.

Yes, Tigerlily is right -- I got carried away with my sink and sand paragraphs and didn't address the real issue. I just think of lime as something to get away from because there is so much here in Indiana, and I didn't realize you had already planted.

Suzy

Just an update on my soiless mix. I did use the third perlite/vermiculite/spagham moss for my first batch of seedlings - no added limestone. I had a good germination rate for my geraniums, vinca, and black eye susans. I can't believe that I never read about adding the lime, especially since it was clearly printed in the hyperlink that I attached earlier.

At any rate, I am now going to begin planting the seeds that are 6 -8 weeks before last frost. Rather than work with the ph issue, which I feel is much to much for me to handle, I will take my mixture and mix in 1/2 of my local nursery's seed starting soil. It may not be the best solution, but the seeds did well the first time around, so I am just expecting even better results.

I just read somewhere, I think it was in one of my gardening books, that if you can get packaged soil from your local nursery, it was usually better than the national brands. The author reasoned that it was more likely to micmic the soil in the gardens around it. In addition, it is a proven product if the nursery is using it to grow their own plants.