Clematis

Oh my, Victor. I have a rather unique nursery a few miles from me that specializes in rhodies. I made it there last summer and it seems they also have many varieties of acers. I don't know what happened but when I got home there was this cute litle JM in my car.

Amazing how they become stowaways!

Last June we saw some stunning JM's on Cape Cod, at a nursery. I've already mentioned that one of them will be coming home with us this year!

I'm sure you mean either JM comes home or DH doesn't!

Since Victor has reminded me of my stowaway JM, I looked it up. It's a Villa Taranto. I have it planted in a very shady location. Should I move it to a sunny spot (when it warms up a bit) ?

Probably at least part (morning) sun to get better colors. But many can take full sun.

I have a clematis montana "Elizabeth" that is planted in the completely wrong spot. What that means is that it is taking over the garden! I need to move it to a place where it can climb to it's heart's content.
What is the best way to move it? When it is dormant or after it flowers? Cut it back (I'll have to anyway) how much?
Thanks gang!
Tamberlin

I'd move it in March but let's see what the pro's say. I have a montana that wants to take over the garden and this year will get a major haircut.

Victor - as if clematis wasn't enough of a tough decision now we're onto JM's. The spot where I need one gets full endless sun. Which ones can take the heat yet grow to 12 or 15 feet tall, without too much of a spread?

DH agreed to the JM so the three of us can share the car! :-)

I would agree with Pirl - while dormant is probably best. However, with montana it won't be easy. They are so big. I don't have any montanas myself, but if it's already established then there must be a pretty sizeable root system. You really need to be careful to preserve as much as possible. But that also means digging a very big hole in the new location if you are successful in saving much of the roots. I would hack it back quite a bit - maybe down to a few feet. This will help with physically moving it, as well as with transplant shock. Remember that since montana blooms on old wood, you will lose this year's bloom.

Pirl, yes, I didn't mean to divert the thread to JM's! Your spot and space requirements would mean some research.

I also planted a Nelly Moser but it really didn't do much last year....I hope it does better this year. I know it does take a few years for them to establish themselves but I am so impatient LOL LOL I want everything and I want it now hehehe.

I think we all do, Dawn. :-)

Nelly is a good old gal and you'll love her. She'd love a nice ten pounds of manure as soon as you can get to it. Don't scratch it in the ground. Just spread it around the plant and cover with mulch. Make sure you buy the deodorized manure or spring won't seem so sweet.

Yes, we do want it big and beautiful yesterday! I don't have Nelly but it's nice. Dawn, you might want to prune it hard, even though it's a group 2. Debbie, from Silver Star, recommends that for the first year or two and I will do that this year. I had already done it a couple of times just to get wimpy looking ones going. You will probably sacrifice some bloom but should stimulate more stems and get a fuller plant.

I agree. It's worth losing a few flowers this year to get more branching for future years. Every now and then, when any one of any class of clematis, starts looking less than lush, I do cut it back quite hard - just above the first bud from the very bottom. It's worth it.

Like Shakespeare, and a pop song from the 80's said, "You gotta be cruel to be kind".

Yes I too heard that pruning them hard the first few years is a good thing. I plan to do that with all 6 of mine since they were just planted last summer. I am glad you like the Nelly Moser pirl - I wasn't sure if it was a good purchase but now I am sure it is :) Spring oh spring where are you! You can come anytime now hehehe.

I'm new to Clematis myself, and I've noticed that the first year isn't the greatest, but after that, things can really take off.

Right now I'm growing three kinds, Henryi, Arctic Queen, and Candida. Henryi was acidentally pruned to the ground last year, so I haven't seen much from it yet. Arctic Queen wilted a few months after I planted it, and so I haven't really seen much from that one yet either. But my Candida is just amazing! Here's a picture. Hopefully this Spring I'll see some more action from the other two.

That is just beautiful Karen! Awesome pic!

Pirl you got me thinking??? Do I really need 10lbs of manure around my clematis?? Wow! It is okay just to buy the stuff from a nursery or something?

Karen - Artic Queen is lovely and so is Henryi - huge spectacular flowers with maroon stamens. Great for a dark violet or burgundy iris as a match and they bloom at the same time.

Put out bait for slugs and earwigs if they're ever a problem you'll have the possibility for skeletonized clematis if you don't get them before they spot the clematis.

Dawn - sure! Get it at any nursery, Home Depot, etc. It comes in 40 lb. bags and you can use old bowls from thrift shops to dig a few scoops for each clematis. They'll love you for it and the bag will be gone so fast you'll wonder why you didn't buy more.

I have Nelly Moser. Planted it 1 &1/2 years ago. It wasn't very big last year but it is very pretty.

Thanks pirl I am going to me some manure LOL Okay not right away but I will do it this spring for sure! All I need to do is scatter it around the clematis on the top of the soil and leave it there?? I guess I should be careful not to put it right up against the plants right?

Right on all counts. Some people put down a handful of lime and others don't believe in doing it. I do both lime and 5-10-5 (a scant handful of each) and top that with the manure.

Sounds easy enough. thanks, pirl.

oh dear, these plants are much more complicated than roses.... what have I done????

so much to learn...

Gram, I want to take the tree down but after I saw some pictures of rose gardens, I saw a tree that was the support for a climber... I also spoke with Susy for North Creek and she told me that as long as I build the bed for the rose higher than the tree and add some extra manure and mulch it should be ok... I am thinking of Sombreil at that place... I am also thinking of the easiest way to get it done...

Thanks so much pirl for all your advice. I am keeping mental notes of it all. My clematis plants are going to love me this spring thanks to you :)

You're quite welcome.

I was a total failure at moving Josephine though. I killed her. The roots always amaze me and their spread (underground) is far greater than you'd think by looking at the top growth.

Kassia, I have both roses and clematis, and my roses are much higher-maintenance than the clematis. I didn't do anything at all to my 'Candida.' I just planted it, made sure it was watered (when I watered my roses), and that's it. And it still bloomed like mad for me.

Kassia, I completely agree with Karen and that's what I tried to stress in my earlier post. Clems have gotten a reputation for being difficult and high maintenance. In my experience, they are not. Watering is probably the single most important thing, unless your soil has no nutrients whatsoever. As I said earlier, there were many years where I did not fertilize at all and still had great blooms. My soil is acidic and I don't use lime. Again - no problem. Roses are way more work because of the fungal diseases. And it's a lot more pleasant to prune a clem than a rose! Don't be intimidated. It will detract from the enjoyment you should be getting.

And you can always do your own little experiment. Plant two in similar areas - preferably the same variety. Use lime on one and not the other. Fertilize one more than the other. (Prune and water the same for both.) See what happens and adjust accordingly.

I agree with Victor and Karen. Often I either run out of ingredients or the weather turns or we go away and I don't get back to it but they still bloom beautifully.

Come to think of it we have one neighbor who's become too ill to garden and her clematis survives anything and everything - it's the Jackmani (original) and never gets fed or pruned and the only water it gets is when it rains.

Clematis have been trickier for me. I think so much of this varies yard to yard and location to location.
I wanted to add that there are a lot of roses that are not high maintenance. Thinking that kept me away from roses for years.

Without high jacking the thread could you name a few or even a type - like Floribunda?

ok Victor I will take your word for it... it's all an experience anyway!!11

They're so wonderful with roses, Kassia, that when the first one blooms you'll be stationed outside with your camera and spare batteries.

Those first blooms are not coming fast enough. Although we have had a short winter so far, it seems to be lingering too long. Come to think of it, I feel this way every year at this time.......

Pirl, Shrub roses are vey low maintenance/no chemicals required. Climbing roses, rugosa roses too. I think floribunda. Others too. It's largely hybrid teas that give roses a bad name. If you want more info you can dmail me.

My climbers either went insane (Peace) or were almost one time bloomers. I have one rugosa and ordered five floribundas. I agree about the hybrid teas though The McCartney is beautiful and smells divine.

There are so many types: gallica. bourbon, etc. I have mosly shrub.

I have an HT that is easy and bloomed continuosly. Tahitian Sunset from J&P. It was my first rose and was so easy and productive that I went on a rose buying spree. I guess I'll find out this year about all the other varieties I bought. Of Course, then I had to get the clems to go with the roses. :>)