Hederacea

I do mean to share these old botanical texts in my collection, but I don't always get around to scanning them. Here is one for today.

Here is the desciptive text.

that is so beautiful!

More text for your reading pleasure.
beth

Very cool print. I love these :-)
Thanks much!
~Alice

I'm going to put this in a comment to Ipomoea hederacea in the PlantFiles - the eyes of the artist really do present a plant unique to the artist, his times, place & culture - I love that sort of thing. Thanks, Beth.

This message was edited Feb 8, 2007 7:48 AM

He also got the details in there including the little hairs sticking straight up all over. It makes you want to go see the details of the plants in person...but we have to wait a while for that if you know what I mean.:)

Outstanding again Beth. Makes me glad again I took Latin in High School. The writer of the Latin referred the hairy nature of the plant using about 5 different latin words for various kinds and stages of hair, on various organs. The writer of the English refers to rules and protocols for naming plants. Whoever published a latin description first, got the naming rights. The International Botanical Congress still uses this rule today. If you discover a new plant, some on else may get credit if they publish first, in Latin. This was half a life after Linneaus, wow that is powerful.
Frank

This message was edited Feb 7, 2007 10:45 PM

The old prints and texts show as Karen has accurately described the 'rendition' and understanding of the plants "unique to the time,place and culture" of the author...

I am viewing the addition of these older and yes taxanomically outdated materials >if added to the PlantFiles,to be a detriment to the up to date accurate information that the PlantFiles are designed to serve and provide...it will inevitably lead to alot of unnecessary and redundant questions about the current accurate ID's...

Although Frank and others may be more than 'happy' to provide the answers to clarify the additional questions that will inevitably arise...

I'm seeing the addition of outdated materials added to the PlantFiles as confusing to those looking for up to date ID's (as there may be more of a tendency to refer to presentations in the older material) and additionally burdensome for those who are clear about the details of the up to date ID's...just my honest opinion...


Have Fun...

TTY,...

Ron

Ron, I think you've made a very good point about us keeping in mind how what we put in PlantFiles affects its purpose. And I agree that clear, up-to-date information is central to that purpose.

However, I also think it's a shame to totally stick to that purpose to the exclusion of the romance, lore, poetry, art, etc. of flowers. Remember that time Reginald Farrer and his donkey fell over the edge of their precipice somewhere in Asia into a "raging" torrent below, full of rocks and boulders? Man and donkey were separated in the water while their companions raced along the banks they could reach trying to save them. Eventually, each one of them made it to a bank and lived to tell the tale. Now, wouldn't you love to know what plant(s?) they were looking for at the time they fell over the cliff? (If I ever find out, I'll post it.)

I think that the way PlantFiles is structured by having facts in one part, and comments in another allows for (and invites) both types of input.

So, what do you think about strongly wording a preface to presenting these links in which we emphasize that these prints and text are out of date and given for purely historical reference and the beauty of the print?

Already, the dialog in this thread has yielded a comment from Frank about Latin taking precedence over English that I found very enlightening. How else are we supposed to push the boundaries of our own ignorance if not sow the seeds of confusion that beg questions that would not otherwise be asked?

Karen - I am not opposed to the presentation of the historical material that you and others are interested to collaborate on...in fact I think it's an interesting and worthwhile venture to compile and explore any type of history...as long as it doesn't impede the primary purpose of the up to date information...

I'm still wondering if you want to
1) present all of the material in the commetary section of entries
or in
2) links to threads here in the MG forum that will address the material in a more indepth form...

It would seem that links to threads devoted to the historical investigations would be alot more practical

The use of lingering Latin for some medicine and some other sciences was the attempt at a Universal language so that people in different cultures would have a common denominator language...Much the same as English as the language of Amerika (the New Roman Empire) has become the modern Universal language of technology...luckily Latin or other ancient languages aren't used too much for computer science or modern subatomic physics...

"what plant(s?) they were looking for at the time they fell over the cliff?"...locoweed(?!)...

"So, what do you think about strongly wording a preface to presenting these links in which we emphasize that these prints and text are out of date and given for purely historical reference and the beauty of the print?"...> great idea...

"Latin taking precedence over English" that I found very enlightening...sure...if doctors and lawyers had to use plain English it would quickly shorten the gap between them and people with "common sense"...but using antiquated languages increases jobs and helps the economy...

Have Fun...

TTY,...

Ron

Plants can evolve and change over time. I agree with Ron that they aren`t useful for plant IDs. Being a historical reference it could be fun to compare them to modern day flowers we have in our gardens. I`ll bet some are pretty close to the same and others may have undergone mutations and changes over time?

I think it would be very interesting to go outside and pick a plant and draw it...if you were an artist of course :)

I will say the details seen in these prints are harder to represent on paper than it looks.

I never planned to add these old botanical prints to Plantfiles. Often the plants are classified and named differently today. I do find it interesting to read the text and try to follow the logic they are using in trying to classify them. The text often says in paraphrase "we are not really sure where this plant should go but we are putting it in this catagory for now...".

I agree it would be nice to have a morning glory file folder for all these prints...I have a lot more not scanned yet! I am not sure there is a Davesgarden place for that.
Beth

There could certainly be a continuing series of threads devoted to historical prints and texts...

Those are beautiful .. they would look great in frames. Wow.. thanks for sharing.

A.