The question to make everyone angry!

I have a Douglas Fir that is over 50' high. I have been eliminating the Douglas and planting Ponderosa Pine. This selective preference is brought on by the abundance of D. Fir and the declining presence of Pon. Pine. This is caused by the effects of fire control preventing the fire from selectively eliminating the fir and taking away the P. Pines habitat. So my commitment is to a few Fir but mostly P.Pine to exist on my 3 acres. Now to the question. That 50' fir tree would make a great snag and all of the eagles, hawks, and ravens would hang out on a tall snag. So I want to denude the tree and remove all of the foliage and much of the branching to have the tree expire. Is this the best way to get a snag or should I drill holes and put in Roundup concentrate to kill the beauty. She is going to fall or remain a snag so help me with the choice of euthanasia. Would denuding the foliage kill it pretty quick?

Yeah, makes me very angry, that you say 50', not 15m :-))

I'd think the simplest way to do it would be to girdle the trunk - cut through the bark down to the wood right round the circumference.

Resin

You know Resin in my veterinary practice I am fortunate to use the French measurment of the meridian of 1789 but the response here in the land of English conquest we are too pridefull to use the metric. I am also sorry. How much is a dram? How many mg in a grain? eeeeech.

Oh oh oh! Let her remain as a snag! We need more snags!

Soferdig,
I have to say your post took my breath away my first thoughts were OMG I rarely even have the honor of seeing a fir tree or any tree for that matter that is 50' tall, and I must some how convince him not to do this. Guilt yes, I could use guilt to persuade him and if I am lucky perhaps he was raised catholic and guilt would certainly work on him. Once I caught my breath and gave it a second thought and admitted to myself there was little difference between removing a 50' fir and my recent removal of two mature oaks (the dirtiest trees on the planet..seeds, acorns, leather leaves) abutting my patio. Now to my 2 cents regarding your plan of action are that Round Up doesn't have what it takes to topple a 50' tree. kt

I ran across this Pine last week and thought perhaps they had hired Decumbent Landscaping Services, that discredited hort. operation outta the Ohio Valley. Nah, they're just trying to create a snag. ;)

OK but you are missing that I WANT A SNAG. I have considered many to be moved here but the mass is just too much. The Fir is shading a future Ponderosa pine area and it will need more light to become Ponderosa Pine forest. (Big spaces between the trees and lots of sun). So if this fir is snagged, IE long sqraggly branches without leaf the Raptors who live all around me will become creatures of my ponderosa forest. I have many Douglas Firs that are over 50' and they are the seed crop for after my demise. ( After I become a snag) That is a sad specimen you have photographed Maackia. Mine will look like woodpecker heaven with branches and barkless raptor covered tree tops surrounded by the beautiful Yellow Pine with the essence of the West.

This message was edited Jan 28, 2007 6:04 PM

As Resin suggested I would girdle the tree. I'm releasing some old apples from a surrounding forest. The bigger trees that have been shading the apples are being girdled like the ash in the attached photo. I find it easy to saw a connecting circle around the trunk and then with an axe cut the bark away removing the cambium layer. You could add to the wildlife habitat by piling brush around the base of the tree and also hide the girdlng work that you have done.

I don't have the answer to your question Sofer, but I just want to say I admire what you want to do. I could only wish I had the land to do what you propose to do.

Yes, I second that. Wonderful problem to have! For gardeners, size does matter. My pathetic 0.6 acre suburban lot seems so insignificant compared to the grandeur that you and some other lucky DGers are blessed to have.

Maackia,

That's the most beautiful pine I have ever seen! Such incredible glory. Now, that's what I call vision! Whoever is responsible for that, should be on TV.

Sofer,

If creating the perfect conifer as seen in Maackia's photo is not in your playbook, I'd girdle. It works. It works quick. It's easy.

Scott

Actually Maackia's tree looks like those feeble attempts to make a cell phone tower look like a tree. There's one near me that looks just like that!

Thanks, BobMack; time to get out the mop and clean off the PC screen.

Actually...that's Decumbent's "I'll get you, my pretty" response to da Bears going to the Super Bowl while Cincy sips brewskis and stews till next year.

That, or he thought it was one of my Parrotia.

Supersquirter:

Ditto all the girdling recommendations. Limit the depth of the cutting so that the tree is less likely to snap off. Trying to strip off all the foliage to kill the tree would seem a massive effort, and not particularly safe. You'd have to eliminate all the buds as well, but you alluded to that by suggesting you'd cut all the branches back. Again, not real safe and you'd have a less attractive snag afterward.

Whether you add Roundup or some other chemical is your choice. The girdling ought to finish the tree off in short order.

Tomorrow I go out to sit with my tree before I girdle its wonderful structure. But I will tell it all about the wonders of heaven and how its structure will be a place of greatness as the raptors build their lives in its majesty. It will be difficult but the product of its demise is far longer and better than a fire in my wood stove. Boy this will be hard. The fir is the one in the distance that is in the shade of left side of the photo.

Sofer, are you going to be able to conduct prescribed burns in this area after your pines reach a good size? I have the same situation here, but with Pinus palustris instead. I know I will never be able to restore all of my woodlands, but I have created a little section where I will have nothing but longleaf pines and it will be small enough to where I can set a winter ground fire and keep it contained easily. It's amazing how many herbaceous plants come back after a burn. Some types of wildlife thrive in this habitat.

We are able to burn all march and April, and again in Oct and Nov. So I can get the hatch of perenials that I want. This is the area that I am burning next spring.

Sofa, my man, is this puny 50 footer outside the fence? I would gird also, use the chain saw just enough to break the cambium, but I would then use a drawknife 6-8" below saw cut barking the tree up to the saw line. This way the rain and snowmelt won't stay in the saw cut and hasten any potential rot ( you want the snag to stay up as long as possible ). And do it quick, pretty soon it will be pullin calves and pushin prolapse uterii season. Ken

The tree is definitaly located well within my fence. I am Planting snags underneath but I will only be able to haul and plant up to 20' in length. So that is why I am snagging this Douglas. Good idea on the cut/carve below. I gave up on the pull calf idea long ago. I now stay in 72 F even in Alaska. We all learn how to make life easier. It might have been during one of those prolapses that was frozen to the ground when I made that decision. LOL

Totally off topic, but, on a farm I visit, there are beaver that come up from the river to girdle timber for their dams. One day we were walking along the river bank and found a tree that was probably 10 ft in circumference that had been completely girdled by the beaver. Dead as could be. They dragged away cornstalks and small trees while waiting for the Big Kahuna to fall and change the course of the river.

Most of the beavers I know just chew until it drops and leave it there. Must not be palatable when dead and dry. It is hard being a cottonwood.