Clivias anyone?

Neal, have you tried PHYSAN? From these folks--works like a charm over here on bulbs (either as a spray or a drench) and is organic too.
http://www.spray-n-growgardening.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PHYSAN20PT&top=7

Most of the commercial bulb growers in Texas are using this and have been for a while.
Debbie

I was on eBay looking around and found this info, thought I'd pass it along.

Golden Dragon is a superior strain of Yellow Clivia.

The clear yellow flowers have no orange or red markings to darken the power of their color. This clean yellow can be seen at a distance, making them ideal to brighten dark corners, or shaded indoor planters. Flower clusters are large and long lasting.

Clivia are tough plants, known as survivors, proven soldiers for long-term use in mall plantings, indoor containers, and landscapes. Clivia Golden Dragon makes a good plant even better, by offering a distinctive form and bright vibrant yellow color option to homeowners, designers, and landscapers.

Yellow is a rare color in Clivia. Most clivia are red or orange. Golden Dragon represents the best of Horticultural effort to make the unusual and beautiful available to the general public.

Flowering begins in February and continues through May.


Cultural Info
Temperature. Frost-free locations. Growth is fastest with 60F nights. In frost-free areas, can be used outdoors in any shade location.

Light. 1000-3000 ft candles

Humidity. Thick leaves and bulbs of
this South African plant tolerate a wide range of humidity

Watering. Keep moist

Soils and Substrate. Fastest growth occurs in a light organic substrate such as peat, peat/bark, or peat/wood shavings

History
From the moment of their discovery in the early 19th century, clivias have had a profound effect on horticulture. Gardeners in Japan, in particular, became enchanted by these members of the amaryllis family soon after the plants reached that country from their native South Africa.

Europe wasn't far behind. In England, the most spectacular species, Clivia miniata, was put on display before its identity was known, and the first flowers created a sensation. It proved to be a durable and long lived plant, and its large seed were readily produce and easly to germinate.

Before long, the plant breeders were at work, using some of the fine selections that had been discovered in the wild and brought back to Europe. By the end of the 19th century, spectacular new hybrids were being shown and illustrated. And then they dissapeard, victims of the upheavals and fuel shortages caused by the First World War.

But now interest has been rekindled with a vengeance. An international movement has changed this palnts in many different and exciting ways. Belgian breeders, for example, have transformed clivias into more petite, rapidly maturing pot plants with astounding sales figures of over 700,000 plants per year in Europe.

Chinese breeders have selected clivias for unusual leaf patterns and shpaes; single plants there are reputed to sell for as much as $10,000. Individual seed from desirable parents can sell for as much as $10 to $20 each.

In South Africa and California, new colors such as peaches, apricots, and pinks are becoming popular.

The New Flower Colors
To understand this fervor, all one has to do is look at some of the new plants that are being bred. Yellow Clivias have long enjoyed the mystique of being exceptionally scare and desirable.

Today's knowledgeable growers, however, aren't content with the buttery cream color of older selections -they want rich, golden yellow flowers, a feat that has been achieved but is still rare.

Among the most exciting new hybrids are those with pink and peach-colored flowers, which have appeard in several different breeding programs. In these plants, the pink is usually mixed with a variable amount of cream or yellow, so the colors range from apricots and peaches to shades that are quite close to true pink.

Multipetal Clivias
A normal clivia flower has six tepals (a word that refers to petals and sepals that look alike). Some new strains, however, have eight tepals, which makes the flowers look bigger and fuller.

One of the goals of today's clivia breeders is to develop truly double flowers, and progress is slowly being made in that direction. There are now plants that consistently produce flowers with 12 tepals, and eventurally there may be flowers that look like small double roses.

Dramatic Foliage
Clivias with variegated foliage are becoming more available. These plants are cultivated for their foliage, not their flowers, and are best regarded as living sculptures. They are particularly appreciated in China and Japan.

Plants with good leaf color contrast are expensive, and often cost more than $100.00

Leaf pattern can vary not only from plant to plant, but also within the same plant. Most variegation occurs as longitudinal bands that run the lenght of the leaf and may be either white or yellow.

Whew Dale! Was all that on one listing?????

Yes, Hirt's Garden, I have bought from them and they are pretty good. They are a large and mostly uncaring firm (like all big businesses), but, they are smart and informative.

Clivia seeds don't necessarily come true. That's one of the things that make growing unusual varieties of clivia from seed so exciting. You're never sure what your plant will eventually look like. Personally yellow clivia is my least favorite color.
Because of things I've read on the clivia enthusiast site http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/clivia-enthusiast/
I am wary of eBay. My favorite source for seed at this time is Alick McLemon in New Zealand. He has the most incredible Clivia. http://www.yellow.co.nz/site/cliviaenterprises/ His seeds are offered once a year and they go fast.

Siggy, The NZ site was nice.

I'm not fond of the yellows either, I have seen some greens selling here which make a lot of money, there is someone setting up a hippeastrum site who has close links to the gardening world, they are selling some interesting ones on ebay.

www.hippeastrums.co.uk

Oh heck, I just looked at the 'other Amaryllids' on the site, they are getting Worsleya in March at £95 a bulb, no sizes given yet but inclusive of phyto and postage from their location. I need a sugar daddy.

Thanks siggy for the Clivia forum, some interesting reading ahead. I have come across another NZ site recently, it seems they sell out quickly too but I didn't save the link.

This photo has nothing to do with clivia.

Here is a person in China that grows clivia commerically and this is their personal photo album http://myclivias.spaces.live.com/?mkt=en-gb

Here is a sample.

I guess you've convinced me to try a few Clivia's this summer once I slow down a bit and get all these bulb seeds I already have, started. I hope I live long enough to see them bloom--I hear it's a long wait on clivia's, no? =)

yep-and I noticed he asks you to obtain his permission to use photo's too.

This message was edited Jan 27, 2007 7:25 PM

It's about three to five years from seed to flower. But you could buy a blooming size plant. The regular orange Miniata is a beautiful plant and not too expensive.

That's an excellent idea Siggy--I think I might actually get to see it bloom then, plus for a first of a species that always helps to make your mind up if this is something worth that long of a wait for.

I try to go three years max on bulb blooms from seeds--I guess that's my patience factor. =)

DMJ, You should ask Dale about the $17 plants mentioned earlier in this thread.

I doubt I'll have much trouble finding them when I decide to get them--I have one or two good bulb sources. ;)

I could probably get a few thrown in on my yearly Oct purchases/trades. I just have to ask. I'm also a commercial grower Siggy.
Debbie

I purchased two Clivia seeds this fall and when I was reading up on them it seemed to me that they could be treated like lily scales, so that's what I did. I put them in a baggy with a little potting mix and gave it a sprizt and stuck it in my scale box. They both have rooted and there is one little leaf on each one. Now I need to decide what to do next.

From what I've read here, they grow well in what you are calling leaf litter. Is there a commercial medium that I could purchase that might be close to that? The potting soil I'm using is the regular Miracle Grow. Do you think I could continue to grow them in that? Also, I've been keeping them very dry. Since I put them in the baggy, maybe I've spritzed it two or three times, probably about once a month. Do they still need to be kept very dry after potting up, or should I be giving them more water? Any advice would be appreciated.

These are suppose to be yellow and I got them from Chiltern in England.

I'd do what Janet did myself (seems to work Janet and I won't argue with success); but you know it sounds a lot like the same methods you would use to germinate crinum seeds would work with these too. Crinum's are the only seeds I actually germinate outside of soil--I use the damp paper towels in the baggy method myself--EVERYTHING else goes in the soil.

Pat, I think it would be a good idea to mix something with the MG potting soil for sharper drainage. I've found it to hold moisture too well on its own. Perhaps some fine bark and sand. Upon wallaby's recommendation I've been doing this with my tropical bulb plants and they've let me know they like it :)

beaker as Neal said, difinitely mix some sharp sand or washed river soil in if you have a supply it is very gritty and doesn't compact like ordinary garden soil. If you can get some leaf mould use a mix of at least 1/3 leaf mould, 1/3 gritty soil or sand, 1/3 MOSS peat if using a peat compost, there is a heavy sedge peat which will kill the plants but Moss peat is fine and makes a good mix. Peat has no food at all other than what is added and that becomes depleted, but it makes for a good mix if you don't have anything else to use.

When you put the roots into the compost firm very lightly, leaving the seed on top with the connecting stem unburied as much as possible, then give a reasonable wetting with a fine spray once only as the compost should already be moist, this will give it a chance to bed in and then let the roots forage for moisture, don't water at all until it looks quite dry on top and then only a light spray. Mine are in a propogator so they get some moisture from the air but I keep one vent open, and as they start to take hold I sometimes open the other vent, closing at night, there isn't a lot of moisture floating around in there but enough comfort moisture.

Neal, did you see my post above about PHYSAN 20 for fungal problems in bulbs?

Hearing you all, loud and clear. So, does anyone know if there is a commercial product that contains fine bark. I have the sand as I carry two 60 lbs tubes of it in the trunk of my car for added traction. This is Minnesota afterall!

dmj, I checked out the Spray N Grow site and am wondering how the Spray N Grow compares to Messenger. It sounds like they do about the same thing. I bought some Root Shield this year to use with seed starting and am wondering how that compares with the Physan. Sounds like the physan might be a cheaper alternative.

No PHYSAN is a fungicide. They sell fertilizers and messenger too, but PHYSAN is an organic fungicide.

To be real honest, I tried Messenger last year and I didn't notice any advantages--in fact, a few of my plants decidely did not like it because I did side by side comparisions. I have used their fertilizer--its OK--I just prefer a liquid 8-8-8 organic. I won't bother with messenger again, I think its a lot of hype for nothing but I'm sure I'll be shot down on that one. We have a really long growing season down here so I think messenger is a waste of time. Everything grows really well anyways.

The only thing I use of theirs regularly is the PHYSAN 20. I like it, other commercial growers are using it too. That's just my opinion on this stuff. I use it as a bulb drench and fungicide--I don't use anything on the seedlings because I don't have any problems with damping off but it is used that way too. I just don't use it that way.

I use algroflash as a general fertilizer. I like it alot. Its got micronutrients beyond
just NPK (but I don't believe it is organic).

And for a general folliar spray for enhancing plant robustness, I've been
reading a lot about aspirin. Apparently, the chemical is the same plants
use to protect against disease and insects and so when sprayed on the
folliage, the theory is, the plants muster their defenses and become stronger.
Its something like one standard aspirin per 2.5 gal of water.

Tam

Algoflash is definitely not organic--I used to use it many years ago but found it a bit strong. Park's has been selling it now for over 10 years. Aspirin is another thing that came down the pike years ago but I best think it is used on the gardener rather than the garden. At least I've found that I'm always hurting more than the plants are. And this feeling has grown over the years. I'm a firm believer that youth is wasted on the young. =)

Less is more in my opinion, less work on me and works better on the bulbs. I'm down to granular organic mixed in with the potting soil in pots and scratched in around in ground plants; 8-8-8 liquid organic feed when I get around to it; and PHYSAN 20 more in late season than early season and that's it. I will also use fish and seaweed liquid if I haven't noticed the opossum around much--it causes him to go into a digging frenzy around all my Lycoris--but just the Lycoris. Go figure as to why just the Lycoris species. =(

Let me jump in with my two cents. I have always used water soluble fertilizer (and almost all the brands now have micro nutrients). I fertilize weakly, weekly on established plants and always splash some on the leaves. I have tried lots of other products, Messenger, algro etc etc. Nothing every made a noticable difference. If it doesn't grow well for me, then I don't grow it. Of all the plants that I grow, bulbs are the least demanding, except clivia and agapanthus because they both like a clay soil. All we have round here is sand, lots of blinding white, poor in nutrients sand. Most subtropical bulbs can handle sand.

This is not a clivia...

Debbie, thanks for that link on PHYSAN. Its very damp in this hollow I live in, so the fungus is among us here. Its a product I should just keep on hand. And I so understand "youth is wasted on the young"- so true! lol

Pat, I get 40lb bags of manure/compost (thats how its labled) from Lowes for about $1.40 a bag, and it has a pretty good mix of compost and bark. I used it mixed with peat for my containers and window boxes of annuals with good results too.

Dale, a whole different ballgame with the sand you're dealing with. I try to remember that when I get zone envy, lol. What are those plants in that last lovely pic?

I can't use fish & seaweed on my outside plants - tried it once and everything
got dug out! And I can't take the smell in the greenhouse. So I don't use it often
at all. I do use the algroflash diluted so I guess that's why I don't have the
problem with it being too strong.
Tam

It's too bad Tammy it attracts so many diggers--would be fine stuff except for that one little annoying fact.

One day I watered all my containers with it. The next morning all of them were completely
emptied. I live in the country and I guess the critters were hopeful I'd buried something
yummy for them. LOL

Tam

Here are my seedlings. These are one year old , I sowed ten seeds and now have only four babies.
Kaleem

And one beby is here.
Kaleem

Hi Kaleem, they look to have grown to a good size in 1 year. I can see some variegation too, the variegated ones can apparently die if there is a lot of variegation, the seed pods which have little or no green on them I think produce seeds which won't have the chlorophyll to enable them to grow.


The one seedling I thought wouldn't grow has rotted, the other 14 are firmly held, now waiting for all those leaves to appear. Most have already made some and look robust, a few look weaker. The two others from the 52 flowered one are looking strong.

From reading the Clivea forum which siggy gave the link to, it seems even if a plant is green, if the parent had variegation they can produce a variegated offset, the same is true from seed. That means the poorly variegated one may produce good variegated plants. It's quite exciting waiting to see what happens.

Kaleem, those look so robust and healthy; good job! Are they hardy landscape plants in your area, or grown as houseplants?
Neal

Ten days on and this is what they look like. Some of them seemed to make leaves from the side of the stem as the roots grew, others are just bursting a leaf from the connecting stem, I'm sure it has a proper name if I could remember it.

I remembered, it's the radicle!

This message was edited Jan 29, 2007 10:25 PM

Look what I found lurking in the orchid area of my backyard. These seeds were a bonus for some others that I bought last April. These babies are 9 months old. I guess neglect is a good strategy for me.

I bet they grow all year for you Dale. They do look healthy, I see you have a mixture of leaf types, a nice round tipped one there. Had you forgotten about them? Nice surprise!

Janet, totally spaced out that they were here. They are in an area that is protected from rain, so they only got water once a week. A dense shade area, which some of my orchids need. Watered them once a week and fed them every other week.

They do look healthy don't they? The seed was unspecified and free, but I would say there are at least 3 different types. I got 10 seeds as a bonus and there are 7 in the pot. I will have to put them in a bigger container soon. I think I will just keep them together for awhile, just to see what happens.

Actually, Dale, that yellow Clivia pic is really very nice! A little peachy.

That was a nice bonus, they must have got the food from watering the orchids.

Good going Dale! I sometimes think we may obsess over our bulb seedlings too much and they would probably appreciate it if we would just back off and leave them be sometimes. =)

That's a glorious color! I wouldn't call that yellow. I'd definitely say that's more peach.
Its beautiful Dale.

Tam

Kaleem, That variegated seedlig looks gorgeous! Do have the parent plants?