Four O'Clocks a Host plant?

Nasturtiums are a beautiful flower, even if I don't get Whites, because they are sparce for this area as Paige said...I really like Nasturtiums though, I grew them a couple, years ago... If I get GS Whites, then it will be a bonus>:-)

We do get Checkerd Whites for sure.. And I have host for them in the form of our Native Clammy Weed. I believe the Checkerd White is a very widely distributed BF.. All over US.. this is the plant I have for them..> Check out the little clams and the tiny seed pods there.. Very colorful flower and a good nectar source.

Anyone have nasturtium seeds?

Okay...I learned something new...hadn't realized clammy weed is a larval host for Checkered Whites!!! We've got that growing wild back at the ranch too...but I'd not noticed any Checkered Whites there....yet :o) All I've seen on them are nectaring Queens. Arggggggggghhhh!!! So many native plants...not enough brain cells to remember what they are all good for!!!

Love reading that wonderful news on the cats you are raising Becky. WOW!!! That's really fantastic!!! I knew Nasturtiums were a larval host but hadn't paid much attention to them as they don't do well in my clay based soil. I got some in a trade a few years ago...Princess of India or something along that name...can't quite remember...beautiful red blooms. I planted them in the ground and they lost lots of leaves and looked pathetic. I'll have to try growing them in hanging baskets with good fertile instead. That way I can pinch back the long tendrils and get a bushier fuller growth.

Hope you keep posting photos of the growing caterpillars and don't forget to show the chrysalids too!

On another positive note...I hadn't seen a butterfly in my yard in weeks and I was out earlier today and saw a dozen or so sulphurs, a Dusky Blue Groundstreak, gobs of little skippers, one Gulf Frit (rut roh...I don't want to look at my passifloras!) and I also saw a Mexican Bluewing!!! I'd just put out a little bit of butterfly bait for a lonesome Snout perched at an old feeding station and within about five minutes this gorgeous Mexican Bluewing comes floating over my fence and flits around the bait bowl for several more minutes before it finally lands!!! See the little Snout to the left of it too.

~ Cat
it's sunny outside but very windy - so am surprised to find a nice selection of butterflies flitting about. Possibly they are nectaring up before the cold rolls in.

Duh, just found some nasturtium "Empress of India" seeds that I had put away to plant in Spring. Also found Hyacinth Bean Vine. Anyone know what that attracts? And Tithonia?

Great Karen!!

Oh and Cat, as usually the BFs there blow me away, Gorgeous Bleu there!!


Deb

Clammy weed is a pathetic name for a plant! I don't think I've ever heard of it, but like you Cat, I have limited space. LOL I can't try and attract everything either. What a disaster that would be with my limited cage space. :O

I love that MB! And of course, the little Snout is beautiful in it's own way. I was surprised to see 2 butterflies this past week. Once while driving I saw a little yellow one fly in front of me and then a crazy one flying around so fast in my garage that I will assume was a Tawny Emporer.

I have got to get organized with my seeds and spring preparations, which I hope includes getting all those recipes for the baits. I especially loved how you had that hollowed out log hanging.

Karen, the Hyacinth bean are beautiful! (did I send you those? lol) I plant them every year because the hummers love them. The Tithonia's are great nectar plants for the butterflies. If you have seeds, try starting them inside rather than throwing them out. I've had a hard time getting them to grow like that, as have others, but had some nice plants when I started them.

Yes, they were from you, thanks so much!! And I put them in a "safe place" to wait for Spring (lol). It is so warm here that I am going to start them.

Paige and anyone else - The Nasturtiums can get very leggy and the leaves and flowers get sparse and faded in full sun. When I first grew them, the packet of seeds said full sun to get the most blooms. But the leaves looked awful. I stuck the containers, that the plants are in, up against the outside of my screened porch for exposure to morning sun and full shade the rest of the day. That's when they got nice large deep green leaves and not as many blooms but the blooms were richer colors. And when you grow several of the plants in a container, they get pretty thick and you get more blooms anyway. So I think that is the best way to grow them. Crowd them in a large container to spill over the sides. And set them somewhere that they only get about an hour or two of sun (early morning is best so they don't get scorched by the sun) and shade the rest of the day. I posted some photos of my pots on another thread:
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=2866868
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=2866864
The whole point in growing these as a host is for the leaves for the GSW Butterflies, so you want green, healthy leaves.

Deb - I have never heard of the Clammy Weed plant. Is that a Texas native plant?

Karen - You've got dmail. The Hyacinth Bean Vine is a great plant! Love it! I got some seeds by some very generous folks here and have started growing it. One of my plants is already blooming! Very nice vine! I highly recommend growing it! (see attached photo) What is Tithonia? Is it a Texas nectar plant? Paige - You've had good luck starting them from seed indoors?

Cat - I would definitely try growing the Nasturtium in a container with good soil and early morning sun exposure with more shade the rest of the day if you have a location like that in your yard. Your Mexican Bluewing is beautiful! Must be a Texas butterfly. Never heard of them here in Florida. How awesome to see so many butterflies! Makes the gloomy days of winter seem shorter, doesn't it?

I have noticed that when it rains for a day or more, I see no butterflies during that time .... of course. But the minute the weather clears up the butterflies and bees and birds come out in full force to eat. It's like a carnival! :-)

Sorry about that. Something happened when I uploaded the photo. Here's a better photo! This is the Hyacinth Bean Vine starter plant that I am growing that is already blooming!

Yes Becky it is a Native Texas Plant..
Dwarf Cleome, Clammy Weed, Clammyweed
Polanisia dodecandra
Clammy refers to the shape of the petals.. like tiny clam shells. It is a beautiful drought resistant plant with blooms that attract BF's and Hummers and host the White Checkerd. It is one showcased at the Texas Discovery Gardens at Fair Park in Dallas.


Talk about a plant that has it all!

I posted all the birds I saw today here if you all would like to see>
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/684262/

That sounds like a very interesting plant, Deb! Does it get real tall?

Boy! I just looked at the bird thread you posted and WOW did you have a busy day with all the birdies! How cool!!!!

Isn't the little Kinglet something!! Glad you went to see the posts! Thank you!

Cleome is a fairly popular Hummer BF Nectar plant, Clammy weed is a Dwarf Cleome.. It doesnt get as tall... about 18" at the most I think. The globe in the picture up there ^^ was about 1 1/2" in diameter, the plant was bout 12-18" tall.

Oh! I have some Cleome seeds that I got in a group swap recently. Not dwarfs, but worth trying to grow especially if they are drought tolerant! Cool beans, Deb!

And yes! Your little Kinglet is a cutie! ;-)

Deb...

Is clammy weed also called Skunk Weed because of the smell when you brush into it? I can't remember. Not sure if I want to go brushing into it next time I drive out to the ranch just to find out though :o)

Love those bird photos too! WOW!!! All I've seen in my back yard lately are grackles, sparrows and one little yellow bugger...not sure it it's a warbler or not. I don't know my birds at all. The ranch offers a large variety of birds...I will have to start photographing and learning their names. Lots of hawks and such out there too.

??? Is Hyacinth Vine good for anything aside from beauty???
I grew some last year but the butterflies never touched it. I saw a hummer or two check it out but nothing to truly say they kept going back for more. I ended pulling them out late last year. I still get sprouts showing up from the fallen seeds...ah...so should I leave them be or pull them out too?

Karen...that's it...Empress of India!!! Hey, I was close...empress..princess...at least I didn't say Jester :o)

Becky...yes...after seeing your post and the GSWs I am going to start some naturtiums in hanging baskets for this coming season. Hopefully I can attract white to lay eggs instead of just nectar and fly through. The nasturtium leaves are also edible right? I think I've read about using them in salads or am I mistaken? Not that I'd want to take away food from caterpillars :o)

~ Cat

You are correct Cat. Nasturtiums are used in salads. They apparently are high in Vit. C from what I have read. :-) Mine have a weird smell when I pull the leaves off the plant. I can't quite describe the smell. It's almost kind of musky.

Ok, I've had Dwarf Cleome's before. Very pretty hot pink, white and purple. Unfortunately none of them came up from the many seeds this last year. Maybe they'll surprise me and pop up later tho.

Tithonias are Mexican Sunflowers. You must have them! They are a brilliant orange and the butterflies just love them. I did grow a couple from seed a year or so ago. I expected them to come up since I didn't deadhead them much but I didn't see any. They could have been covered by so much early growth that they died tho. I've bought some at Wal-Mart the last couple of years but they are always rootbound with too many in one pot, but better than nothing. I'm going to start some inside soon tho so I can have some good, healthy ones. Wal-mart...$1.07

The Hyacinth bean vines are only used by my hummers. They do really great here and I love them so I start new ones every year. If you don't like it then pull the babies up... but I can't believe you don't like them! ;)

I'll put the Nasturtiums on a list of things to try. I've got so many new things to start already so I need to see what kind of space I have left! Not many things require shade tho so I might have a spot for them.

The larger moths such as Hummingbird Moths love HBV too!

http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=2709608

Thanks Paige, I will plant the Hyacinth Bean and Mexican Sunflowers!

Oh cool photo Deb!

Oh and Becky, right!! That HBV roots so easily... My cutting also bloomed..the roots are a nice size clump now, so I potted it up and keep it in the bathroom window..

Also I had my first Brugmansia this year.. When I cut it down from the first freeze I kept as much of the foliage as I could without it toppling out of the vase, a huge vase weighted down at that. It has been going very well and now has a lot of root growth on it. With the other 2 I will have 3 colors this year, yaay! I was glad I could save some of the original plant, just in case my mulch job doesnt keep the one still in the ground alive.

(I pasted in a part of the foliage in the top right corner so I wouldn't take up 2 posts.)

This one is Yellow, and smells heavenly in the evenings when in bloom!

Hi all-

I didn't really want to start a new thread, but I wondered why everybody posting is from the deep south? I have a million questions, but I'm from Indiana, so I'm not sure you guys can help, but I wanted to drop in and introduce myself and see if I could get some hints from ya'll LOL!

I have a lot of butterfly hosts -- the big trees like oaks, hackberries, willows, cherries, ashes -- and naturally, I want to attract more butterflies. I recently found out that what I had thought ALL THESE YEARS were Monarch butterflies were actually Viceroys! So now I want Monarchs.

My 2 burning questions have to do with Milkweed. Silky Red and Swamp Milkweed. I wondered which is the better of the two for Indiana, and if they are annuals or perennials here. (I think I know the answer is swamp milkweeds are perennials and Silky Reds are perennials we grow as annuals.) Is it worth getting seeds of both to grow in zone 5/6? Or just the swamp one?

My other question has to do with Spicebush Swallowtails and I need to know the Latin name for Spicebush so I can get one. :) I found a listing for:
Lindera benzoin, SPICEBUSH Dec (z6) (B&W,Hon,Fra)
This dense, medium-large shrub produces spicily-fragrant yellow flowers in spring & red berries on female plants; yellow fall color PSh/Med.
But #1 I think I have this, can you believe it? I saw the picture at the Forest Farms website and I am almost positive I have this in my backyard! but #2 I wanted to make 100% sure it's the right spicebush.

And the third question is, I have all the normal butterflies for my area, but the two I don't have that I *could* have are:

Zebra Swallowtail pawpaw
Eurytides marcellus

Giant Swallowtail prickly ash and related
Papilio cresphontes

I wondered what a prickly ash is. I found this link, but it doesn't sound like somehting I'd want to plant, y'know? http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/83393/ I'm sort of hoping it's something else.

I'd love a paw paw, but I'm unclear where I'd even buy one...I've never seen them for sale and I've never seen a paw paw fruit, either, to get the seed. I guess I'm looking for alternate hosts for the Zebra Swallowtail and the Giant Swallowtail, so if you know of any, you might post them. The list I have is for Indiana, zone 5, but we might be reclassed to zone 6 here since it's been a decade or two since we've seen -20 degrees. (knock on wood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

'Nother burning question: There is a picture of a candy dish posted above by TexasPuddyPrint. It looks like the candy dish is being protected by wire and it looks like the dish is full of mud or something. Um, what is this?

And finally, I have some Nasturtium and Four O'Clock seeds if anybody would like to trade for Clammy weed (Short Cleome) seed -- maybe make a 2 or 3 pack trade? I could use other butterfly host plants like bronze fennel. I also have zinnias which are hugely popular with the butterflies (nectar). D mail me and I'll give you some choices, but anybody reading this will likely know more than I -- I just grow the flowers!

Thanks,
Suzy

Wow you get Viceroy, how cool!!
Yes it is the one Suzy Lindera benzoin You can get them from Nearly Native Nursery, http://www.nearlynativenursery.com/
ask for Jim. This Spicebush is sexed, so you may want to get more than 2 to have better chance of getting both m and f.
I bought my Paw Paw from
http://www.easywildflowers.com/ I am very pleased with them, and their prices are pretty good too.

The goo in Cats dish is a special nectar recipe with bananas and Guinnes Stout beer she makes for butterflies (will get the recipe)..
Another thing Suzy is when your planning to host butterflies it is good to look them up for their distribution to make sure they come to your area. I usually give a quick look here>
http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/search

Deb

Also Suzy, I have Aristolochia tomentosa seeds if you would like some. Pipevine for PVSwallowtails.

Let me know if you need help with anything.

I have green fennel seed if you want some.

Well, see, this is all a little confusing to me primarily because the butterflies I thought I had, I might not have -- and somehow I have ones I've never heard of, instead. This is a picture I have -- I thought it was a black swallowtail, but now I think it might be a "dark form" or "black form" of the Eastern Tiger Swallowtail. Who gets to decide? I always thought Eastern Tiger Swallowtails -- which I have a LOT of -- were yellow! Uh, to be honest, these butterflies are starting to look all alike to me.

Thanks for the seed offers, ladies!! I am right this second in a seed swap and have emailed the hostess to throw in some of these seeds....if she isn't able to, I'll hit you up, okay?

Do I really need a boy & a girl spicebush? Will they use a boy for their egg laying? If I have this plant (no leaves on the bushes now so I can't confirm, which is driving me crazy!!) I have a single non-bloomer. I also think I have one of those thorny spinyashes

The prices on those native plants are cheap! Thanks so much for the link! I shall buy a paw paw this spring for sure -- maybe a few!

And finally, Deb, that link with the map is wonderful. I should have some of those blue gossamer winged butterflies here: Eastern Tailed-Blue (Cupido comyntas) and Summer Azure (Celastrina neglecta). Hmmm. Looks like I have a long ways to go yet!

Wow! I am getting really excited! Thanks!

Suzy

Well one thing you do have is the stellar Pipevine ST there!! Gorgeous photo, I may need to use it, (only with your permission, and i will put your name on it).. I can't get them to open their wings for a picture, lol!

I am delighted to add, the plant I offered is that one's host plant.



This message was edited Jan 17, 2007 2:00 PM

Whaaat? Are you sure? Here is a link to several pictures of the Eastern Tiger Swallowtail - dark form. I told you I am confused. To me they look alike except for some little dot or dash on the wing.

http://images.ask.com/pictures?q=Eastern+Tiger+Swallowtail+dark+form&qsrc=2072&tool=img

Lol! I looked up Stellar Pipevine ST and got no hits... finally figured out 'stellar' was your word, not part of the BF name.

I've seen pictures of the pipevine swallowtail, and yes, it's very common here, but I have never seen one in my garden. I've not quite figured out how it can be so common when pipevine isn't hardy here.

Suzy

Yep Suzy, Your right.... I'm old, eyes playing tricks on me.. I had a blonde moment, and I am not even blonde... whew! lol
I do have some Tulip Tree seeds, and Basswood too. So I suppose I may still be able to help, forgive me!

http://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/species?l=1372

I agree on the dark form ETS. It's very hard to tell the difference from a BST but I'm going on the shape of the blue and the sheer black look rather than a solid dark color. (not sure that makes sense) And since you are north where you will see more ETS. Once or twice a year I see a Tiger here and I'm always thrilled!

You are very lucky to be further north in that you will probably have many native trees in your area that are hosts to some beautiful butterflies. I've got a friend in Ohio that raises butterflies and moths and he uses a lot of them. I'm still nursing a Spicebush that he collected for me on a hike. I'm not sure that it will like our climate tho. He grows rue for GST. I think it actually does well there, whereas here it is very tempermental.

Anyways..."who gets to decide" is a good question! Books are your best bet. Buy them or just go to the library. The Butterflies thru Binocular books are great. (Jeffrey Glassberg) There are always books for your certain region that will give you more info of what you will normally see, what are more rare, and what plants they use.

Good luck!

Isn't that cool? I just love that map feature!

I have all of these except the Mountain Ash which won't grow here -- too hot. I jut put in 2 Sweetbays last summer because I wanted them, not because I knew they were butterfly hosts. This is Swallowtail heaven here.

--> Caterpillar hosts: Leaves of various plants including wild cherry (Prunus), sweetbay (Magnolia), basswood (Tilia), tulip tree (Liriodendron), birch (Betula), ash (Fraxinus), cottonwood (Populus), mountain ash (Sorbus), and willow (Salix).

Suzy

There you go Suzy!! That is wayyy coool!! Sounds like you came prepared! Can't wait for Spring now! We had some snow today, which is not unusual for this part of Texas. Snow is better though, it melts slow instead of running off. This will be a great year!

I am attempting to grow Syringa vulgaris "Congo" too. A great nectar choice for the ETiger ST.. A few other crazy things too... guess we will all see how that works later on. I'm not too proud to let you all know if it doesn't. I am adding more host plants, making at least about 12 different BF Species in all.

Suzy - It's interesting to see the difference in some of the butterflies depending on where you live in the U.S.

Deb - Do you grow "thistle"? I keep seeing that listed as a nectar plant for butterflies.

Tonight I noticed about 6 of my Great Southern White cats were laying on the bottom of the cage. At first, I thought they were dead or dying. Nope! They are morphing into their chrysalis stage. They were wiggling all over the place. Not hanging anywhere in the cage but just laying there all bloated and at first not hardly moving until they started changing. Here's a photo of one of them morphing.

This message was edited Jan 17, 2007 11:00 PM

Here's a photo of another one.

Here's a photo of some of them before morphing. They were just laying there very still. See how bloated they are. When they morph into their chrysalis then they get very active squirming around and rolling back and forth. Fascinating!

oh cool. I wonder if that is the way they morph. I know the Long-tailed skipper morphs with the leaf wrapped around it

That is really weird that they don't attach to anything. I guess they just crawl up on the nearest thing to hang and dry. It's a good thing that more than one of them were doing it or you wouldn't have really known what to do.

fascinating

konkreteblond,

I wasn't ignoring you -- as per your idea, I went to the library last night for bf books. I had to order most books from other branches, but I did come home with 3 butterfly books. Here's something that makes no sense to me: Most of the books were titled something along the lines of: "Butterflies and birds in the garden" Uh, don't birds EAT butterfly caterpillars? LOL! Somehow it just struck me as funny....well, funny and also sad. I have a lot of birds here -- they eat all the worms I have from lasagne layering. That's sad, too.


Becky, those are neat!

Suzy

Suzy,
Butterflies and birds co-exist in a good eco garden...it's just natural.. Some caterpillars will make birds sick though, and they won't eat them. In summer I will move all the bird stuff to the front yard, but they are bound to come to the back too. Black Swallowtails could possibly be spied out and eaten by birds like Cardinals, but if you have some portable plants to put in a cage, you can put them in there to safely finish the last instars and morphing. To me wasps are a greater concern than the birds. Many of us cage them, some more than others. Even on a case by case basis. Good thing for DG with this BF&H forum you can post as you go, and decide what to do.

Have found that I (personally) can not prefer one creature too much over another, as to erradicate any. For me it is a balance and there will be losses.. I remain a gardener and a witness as much as possible.

Paige gave a great suggestion to go to the library.. it is a good way to decide what books you want to spend money on. The Jeff Glassberg book seems to be the one to have for butterflies. I need to break down and go buy that one myself, lol.

Becky, I haven't grown the purple thistle before but I might this year. I saw a pic in the Bird Watching Forum with a Cedar Waxwing munchin on them.. Just thought it migh be a good one around the feeders,, or maybe not :-O


Deb