Would clematis and chokeberry work here?

I'm trying to spend productive time this winter planning out next year's garden. I have an area on the south side of my yard that gets a little direct sun in the morning and late afternoon, but is shaded for most of the day by tall burr oak trees. I'm thinking of trying to grow a white flowered clematis along the fence, planting a black chokeberry (or maybe a viburnum) to the right of the oak, and then putting in a triangular mixed perennial bed in front of the shrub. I'm planning on moving the roses.

Would the size of the holes I'd have to dig to plant the clematis and chokeberry injure the oaks? How much shade can clematis tolerate? Any other ideas as to what would work well for this location? I'm in zone 4a.

I would think they would both do well...not injure the oak. If roses do well you must have enough sun. Pretty place you have.

Ditto, and get started on that roof!

Scott

Thank you, to both of you. It's kind of an old picture, so the roof is now done - we did it when we first moved in, and I've now had one complete growing season to just kind of watch to see what's planted where. Now I can start tinkering around with yard.

roof? never noticed the roof. That's a man for you.

Scott noticed the pallet of roofing shingles, stage left.

Folks of LL's persuasion notice things like that laying about (unfinished) by men. Usually during a ball game.

you are so right SP (and much there is laying about) and yes usually during a football tournament.

Did she say, "a football tournament?"

Scott

WeLL, she does know all about buckeyes....

All I know is that I should lay low during anything called "the big game". I haven't quite figured out the the whole "big game" schedule thing yet - they can occur in any season, with any sport.

And how about on Christmas day INSTEAD of Christmas Carols. That was the worst.

Ah, yes, the big game. When I told my wife we had to be home from shopping last Saturday by 3pm to watch Ohio State play Florida she had the audacity to ask how OSU vs. Florida could possibly be a "big game." If two teams ranked in the top ten play--its a big game. When intrastate rivals play--its a big game. When there's anything at stake--its a big game. This is starting to sound like Jeff Foxworthy's You Might Be A Redneck...

"Big Game" = any game that requires an elevation in status in order to supercede any project on a honey-do list, as in "I really can't change that bulb now honey, the 'BIG GAME' is on.....Cramer Tech vs. Fitzroyal in the state class CCC high school semifinals...it's gonna be a good one...."

This message was edited Dec 28, 2006 2:24 PM

Cramer Tech vs. Fitzroyal. Yep, gonna be a classic.

Scott

The best rule is to never, ever question an event's "big game" status. There are some things that just require faith.

Shirley in the clematis forum directed me to a good clematis nursery in the area, so I think I'm set for clematis - now I just have to have my internal chokeberry vs viburnum debate

Hmmmm...I think SP will have a suggestion.

It is sort of like JC Penny's "Biggest Sale of the Season"...err didn't they just have one of those last week...and the week before?

The downside of TiVo that they don't tell you in the commercials...."But the BIG GAME is on!!!"..."okay, why don't you just pause it and then you can watch just as soon as you are done putting the trash out, and walking the dog, and putting the kids to bed, and residing the house, and....".

Was there a question in this thread...oh there it is....I don't know much about clematis and chokeberry, but make sure you are not fooling yourself into thinking that a Minnesota garden with large oak trees is anything close to full sun. I would suggest that you focus on shade plants. Is that lily-of-the-valley along the fence? I am a big viburnum fan...but if you go that route make sure you pick one that will fit your space as many of them like to be in the 8-12' size (even if the tag says 4').

- Brent

That's my worry, Brent, is that I would sink good money into plants that won't do well, or do something that would damage the oaks. That's 'hosta lancifolia' along the fence (I found that out in the hosta forum) and it does great there - I'm inclined to let it be and plant over and around them rather than dig them out. The roses do okay, but they get a little bit more light than back by the fence, and I think I'm going to move them to places where I think they'll fit in a little better. My objectives are to pretty up the corner, and try to get a bit more of a visual barrier between my patio and the sidewalk (the picture is taken from the sidewalk). I'm currently operating under the influence of recent clematis/shrub thread on this forum! Any ideas for shade?

Thanks - I'm off to check out some sales (really - last day to drag the boys to try things on before they're back in school)

Peg:

I think your challenge is going to get a shrub decently established next to a mature tree like that oak. Not impossible, but it takes diligence. Do your utmost not to chop up the oak roots that you encounter.

Viburnums you might find hardy enough (and that would be of sufficient size to handle a climbing clematis) include:

•Viburnum trilobum clones
•Viburnum sieboldii Ironclad™ or 'Wavecrest'
•Viburnum lantana 'Mohican'
•Viburnum x 'Emerald Triumph'
•Viburnum dentatum clones

There are additional hardy viburnum; you could check Bailey Nursery's website for ideas. You probably want something to get tall enough to provide a little screening and support the climbing vine, though, and in a reasonable amount of time. Those are the ones I listed.

Chokeberry might not be able to perform these tasks for you. I don't claim to know MN conditions enough, and some of the MN/WI/IL contingent who aren't frozen stiff should be chiming in about now.

Thanks. Also (I think I've learned this from other threads) - if I want fruit, plant at least two related clones, that is, dentatum with dentatum, etc. Some interspecies pollination will bear fruit, but not as well as intraspecies. Do I have that right?

Dang, I laid out in the sun too long again! I tell ya, I'm burnt to a crisp. Peg, have you considered Pittosporum tobira?

That's a Japanese mock orange, right? Like something I can grow after a few more decades of global warming? I did have to make my kid go back and get a jacket tonight when we went out to pick up a few groceries. He figures if it's above freezing, it's T shirt weather.