Hi,
I have a couple spots for tall 5-8', late blooming lilies next to the south side of my house and was wondering if any of you have experience with "Silk Road" and/or "Scene Stealer"? I might consider trumpets as well.
Aside from the looks etc. I am concerned that planting too close to my white house could burn the flowers? Any thoughts/experiences with this would be appreciated :*)
Happy Liling,
Andrew
Tall late blooming lilies...
I wouldn"t worry about that. I have a white house and have never seen any adverse affects on any of my foundation plants and a lot of those are lilies.
I actually think that I have more problems with burning next to my brown cedar house. Silk Road is a beauty. The pictures don't do it justice, perhaps bcause it misses the wonderful fragrance. Tropical Isle ( A trumpet) that I got from B & D Lilies, is another tall beauty that is a favorite. Andrew, there are a ton of options for you.
I think as long as you keep the roots cool, they don't mind the upper areas in the sun/lots of light.
If the flowers are prone to fade, you might see that, but I expect that in WI it shouldn't be too much of a problem...
Silk Road is a great one you just can't go wrong with. For me it blooms in July about the time the Orientals start. There are later options too, like Leslie Woodriff- very pretty and strong, but no scent. Scheherezade and Black Beauty are good, reliable performers, also with no scent. I've never grown it, but Anastasia is said to be a good extra late bloomer, and gets quite tall.
Happy planning!
Neal
andrew,
you might get some ideas from the lily garden, http://www.thelilygarden.com/index.html
they list there lilies by bloom time, along with all there other info.
good luck and i agree with the others about keeping the roots cool and your tops will be ok.
good luck and let us know what you decide.
debi z
Buggycrazy is the best source for finding lilies that don't burn. That is because she actually reports her experience with whether or not the lily burns. I don't know any other grower that will provide this information since in a sense it is a negative statement about the lily. I always carefully read through her descriptions looking for this information.
And yes, they can burn! Many of my orientals burned this past hot summer. The parts of the flower facing north were ok but the parts facing south burned (unsightly). Many buds burned before they even opened. If the lily is up against a south side reflective surface then that part of the bloom may well burn also but I can't report on that because I have no lilies in such a position. I know I posted a pic earlier this year but it is too difficult to find. When I have more time I will look for the original and repost. I really think this is important information to have when choosing lilies.
Actually, intercessor, I suggest you email buggycrazy and describe your conditions, including summer sun (including summer temperatures, we had many weeks of 95-100+ degrees) and position of reflective sufaces and she will advise you well.
Intercessor, I have quite a few next the the garage. I have Scheherezade and Anastasia and don't have any burn problems with either. Our siding is a light tan color and some of them have grown right up to the building - even touching it. They are planted on the west and south sides. I do keep the roots shaded with other perennials though.
Re: Silkroad,
Can this be bought anywhere other than TheLilygarden.com? Lots of selection, just kind of expensive. Copperking and Midnight are 10 to 15 dollars more than other sites.
Silk Road is a Judith Freeman (The Lily Garden) hybrid, so thats about the best price I've seen for them ($10 ea.or 3/$27). Wayside Gardens sells it for $12.95 ea. They do give good bonus bulbs at TLG; my Silk Road was a free gift with my order a couple of years ago. I really like TLG, but the price makes me only get the varieties from them I can't get anywhere else. Unfortunately (for me, lol) they have lots of those!
I am wondering, if Thelilygarden creates a hybrid does that mean she has legal rights to that hybrid or does it have to be patented?
Hmmmm.... I think thats the case, but just found it interesting that the Wayside Garden and TLG catalogs don't give patent #s like they do with roses. For some of her hybrids I believe she is the only one propagating and growing them for sale, so they must ultimately come from her (TLG sells wholesale too). I'm curious how long one would have to wait to propagate these lilies to sell legally.
I'm not always sure how it works. But this I know, there was a huge law suit over this double oriental (the first ever of its kind) called "Miss Lucy" last summer. They ended up doing DNA tests and everything. The other grower was selling it as Double Price or Double Prize. From what I understand, Mr. Hoff won the suit.
http://www.lilybulb.com/l7124.html
Anybody else? How does the hybrid rights thing usually go?
I don't believe that lilies are patented....yet.
IMHO, it's about time. If you look at enough sites, you start seeing a lot of lilies that look very similar, but with different names and just registering the lily doesn't protect it from duplication. The down side is that we might see higher pricing on new lily hybrids and it may also inhibit some of the smaller growers in their hybridazation efforts for retail sales.
It drives me crazy when I think I have a particular lily and it turns out to be different from what is registered. I've been trying to match my lilies to the register, but it's slow work. This past fall, I started checking the description in the register to potential purchases. I'm thinking twice about purchasing those lilies that don't match or that don't have a registered name, or that are an obvious knock-off of a registered lily. That doesn't mean I'm against amatuer hybridazation. I'm all for it. I've seen some beautiful crosses here on DG and hopefully some of these will eventually make it onto the register.
I did read in B & D Lilies Fall Catalog that Mak-Leek was P.A.F his" Madame Butterfly". So you must be able to do this. I also wonder what the expense is to the grower.
Here is a link that is relevant ...
http://inventors.about.com/cs/biopatents/a/aa_plant_patent.htm
Often the question is not if you can patent something but if you have the financial resources to protect the patent.
This message was edited Dec 27, 2006 2:19 PM
Well it appears that to have a new "variety" protected, the cost is over $4000 just for filing. I am foggy on the procedures though. After reading @ http://www.ams.usda.gov/science/PVPO/PVPindex.htm
it appears that plants that can be sexually reproduced can be protected, it doesn't say anything about a-sexual reproduction...? Still trying to figure that one out. It would be difficult to get a hybrid that is true to name via seeds. So a hybrid isn't a new variety until it can be grown via seeds?
This message was edited Dec 27, 2006 3:12 PM
The seed won't ever be the same as the parent, not a true genetic duplicate. Can be similar, but not identical. I believe I have that right. I believe the only exact genetic duplicates are from scales.
or tissue culture. I think 4,000.00 is a ridiculous price. I wonder if it costs that much for registration.
Interesting that Madam Butterfly is mentioned. I do have the Madam Butterfly that B&D is selling that I believe is a L henri hybrid. I saw another MB elsewhere this fall, but it was totally different. Also I have two different Dot.Com; one being an asiatic and one being an oriental and two different Oklahomas; both asiatics. I really do think something needs to be done to better control the naming of these lilies, but it shouldn' have to be so expensive.
I believe with patented plants, it's the asexual reproduction that is prohibited. These reproductions would be clones ~ whereas 'natural' offspring (bulblets/seeds) can't help but occur in the natural world.
Madame Butterfly is being sold by Faraway Flowers, but is not the same lily as the Mak-Leek Lily. Perhaps that's where you saw it. Moby & I liked the Faraway Flowers one, if I remember the thread correctly. Mak-Leek's does have Henryi parentage, on the website under the listing at www.lilybulb.com, it does not mention the plant patent, but the fall catalog did. I double checked, just in case my memory wasn't serving me correctly;0)
Seems like this (patents) came up on the iris forum in the recent past. I think lilies in general are the same. As was mentioned, it costs too much money to get the patent and then defend it, usually with the help of DNA tests. So the growers/hybridizers make their money on the introductions, with the price coming down very slowly. They wouldn't do this unless there were not the addicts out there willing to pay the price.
Having a registration is very helpful to keep names straight, parentage, hybridizer, description etc. I think the iris register is much better maintained than the lily register. Hybridizers have to be willing to submit their introductions to the register but many lily growers don't. Some say they just don't have the time considering the number of their introductions each year. I have 2 different "Starburst" Asiatics-- one from Lisa H. and the other a Dutch tango. Neither are registered. Unfortunately it appears that registration is voluntary.
Most lilies are not patented, so divide all you want, and sell or share. Silk Road is not patented. The only one I have seen so far appears to be Madam Butterfly, but it's confusing that it's not noted at all sites as being patented. None of the lilies from the Lily Garden are patented.
If a plant is patented, or PPAF (plant patent applied for), you may not propagate it thru division, tissue culture, or in the case of lilies from scaling. You always may use the seeds. In actuality this applies to the casual gardener, as well as the nurseryperson, however the casual gardener is not in danger of the plant police coming into their yard. But it is still breaking the law to propagate the patented plants.
Plant patents are taking over some of the plants that never were patented before such as daylilies, so I would not doubt some lilies may some day be patented. Some plants such as Heucheras are routinely patented.
And if I recall correctly the patent runs for 20 years from the patent applied for date.
And Pard, as far as costing too much money to do it, often a person that wants a plant patented will sell it to a large company such as Terra Nova, who has the resources and the money to patent, and then tissue culture it. Someone like Judith Freeman may just be the type of person who wants her lilies to be multiplied and distributed widely with no finacial gain to her, other than the origional purchase. I would say cares more about the plant than the money, but that's really too simplistic.
Back to the original question. I find that lilies planted next to the house always tend to lean towards the sun. I find they are better planted away from side of the house, to receive full sun most of the day. (I do have good experience with growing some OT's in mostly shady locations (not near the house.)
Yes, they do lean, but if he is looking for something taller, chances are he would have to stake eventually. He probably won't see the height he is looking for for 2 or 3 years.
The location I was thinking of has no shade, except for the perennials up to about two feet. So full sun for 10 to 14 hours a day.
Hum, with all that sun and being later in the season, you'll probably have problems with fading color. I thought I saw a lily in the recent past that was advertised as being fade resistant. Perhaps on Buggy"s site???? Be careful watering too. Make sure you water early enough that the plants dry before it gets too sunny or you might have problems with leaf burn.