these seeds sold for 50 bucks on e bay
Engelsglöckchen x Fleur Lilac Brugmansia
I bet someone is very happy!!! I wish I could grow them here!!
LOL I bid on them once and backed off....that's a bunch of $$$ for 5 seeds but they sure were pretty. I loved the lilac !! God bless, Margo
You would really have to know or trust that seller to pay that much for seeds. They could easily be some unnamed brug and not find out for a year or more. How do you know what seller to trust on Ebay?
Either by bitter experience or by asking around first :-)
Anyone who sells seed under a cultivar name is to be avoided like the plague!! At best they are stating the pod parent honestly, but the pollen parent could be any old rubbish. They imply you will grow a named Brugmansia cultivar from seed and so they are fools or crooks or both.
My rule to myself is don't buy the seed unless both parents are stated and shown in pics.
Having hopped off my soapbox (!), I have to say I have bought seed from that ebay seller in the past and it has been reliable so far.
This message was edited Dec 28, 2006 11:46 AM
Thank you so much Alistair ! Really good rules to live by.
I truly do love the Fleur Lilac, so maybe I will get lucky some time in the future with a lilac. I am glad to know you were pleased with that particular Seller. That does give me some comfort, but over $10 per seed is a bit rich for my novice seed growing abilities.
God bless, Margo
i buy lots of MG seeds from ebay most are 3 seeds for ten bucks
The other thing to be mindful of is the potential to introduce disease by buying seed from an unknown seller. You don't know if they have taken seed from a diseased plant and there may be disease spores on the seed surface which can infect the seedling on germination and then spread to other plants. Viruses are also sometimes (though unusually) transmitted from the pod parent to the embryo in the seed.
So it pays to do research on the seller first!
One thing that irritates me about ebay is that there is only a short window period for leaving feedback (unless there's something I don't understand lol). That doesn't matter for a lot of things but with seed it does because by the time you realise you haven't got what you bought, or your purchase has come with a nasty alien(!), its too late.
I have gotten seed from him too. He is very reputable and a member of various gardening groups. Best of all, he's a nice guy!
Good luck to whomever was lucky enough to win those seeds!!
This message was edited Dec 28, 2006 7:07 PM
Ohhhh, how I wanted those seeds,LOL :)) That lilac was sooo pretty !! Grow me one pretty please Xeriscape8321 and I will "find" you the one (Desiree) you wanted earlier :))) Actually I do have a couple rooted cuttings coming and will send you one of them ! I lost my entire Day Dreams to a cold snap that took her to the dirt ! Not even enough left to do a log cutting, talk about a sad brug lady here in SC ! My ONLY double pink is gone, but Spring is coming and I will find more . God bless everyone, Margo
Well.. the parents sure looked great... something close out of them would be a real find... I saw them on the US e-baysite.. I think I won mine from the euro site for e-bay... which closed a few days before..figureing if I lost..I could always go to the US site and have another go at them there.. but 5 should be enough for a trail
Ailistar...I think a soak in bleach and H2O2 / water should kill anything I don't need... and get the seedcoating to break away for quick sprouting.. I'll hold a few back to see how they do at first...
I also have from them a passiflora Temptation x Temptation a heavenly blue passiflora...seed cross from a triploid x triploid ..and some from one called dark roseta... [ugly] some how they are related to here intheir lineage..mentioned in the growers of Flur
www.kirchner-abel.de/ looks good to me..and I have the seeds right here right now..awaiting a new heating mat to begin...
Margo.. they are up again...only $3.89..US now..but 11 days to go..
Happy New Year........... Gordon
He has those seed on again, for the next 9 days. I am not sure I like the plant that dark, I like the bright, sunny kind.
Kareoke...well it's crossed with a white.. what you might receive on growing out the seeds is anyones guess..perhaps a pastel purple... or perhaps stripes..although the latter is about unlikely as pokadots.. [ spots ] although if it grew true to the Lilac... I could enjoy that one also.. as I'm already pretty deep into bright white and bright pinks.. Gordon
If it was a lighter lialac I would love it, BUT I cannot afford his price for seeds, guess I will wait for a nice DGer to have some for sale, or trade.
The New ones are all ready up to 6.27
Margo...I didn't get these seeds..i got other seeds from him..LOL!! Sorry....
LOL Gary, just grow me a REAL lilac colored Brug and I'll be a happy camper :) God bless everyone ! Margo
I do believe he is trying Margo. Check this out. http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/677855/
For you newbies - before you go and bid big money on imported seeds you need to have an import license, and the sender needs to get a phytosanitary certificate. Otherwise you're breaking the law. You might want to see if you can go in with someone that has the license, and be prepared for paying the extra cost of the certificate.
Sure, some people have done this without following the law - but breaking the law is never a good idea. They're there for a reason. If you don't agree with them, write your congressman. Otherwise you take the risk of getting caught and paying fines.
This has got nothing to do with how nice a person the seller is. He does seem very nice. It's just about the law, and taking proper precautions to avoid spreading virus or other problems.
What are Phytosanitary Certificates?
A phytosanitary certificate documents the origin of the shipment and confirms inspection in the country of origin by a member of that country's national plant protection organization.
This helps ensure that the shipment of commodities is free of injurious plant pests and diseases.
The certifying country usually charges a fee for providing these certificates.
Phytosanitary certificates are governed under the International Plant Protection Convention, a multilateral treaty acknowledged by the World Trade Organization as the source for international standards for phytosanitary measures affecting trade. Phytosanitary certificates are recognized as an internationally accepted form of pest risk mitigation.
Hi Mary, Thanks so much for that information. I never knew any of that. :(( Live and learn and hope to not get burned along the way, I'm guessing.
I'll just gracefully back off those "non-USA" offers since I have not got a license and don't plan to become involved enough to need one. I did buy some seeds from Chile last Summer, sighhh.
Thanks again and God bless, Margo
There have been some changes to the procedures governing the importation of seed. You may import small amounts of seed without obtaining a phyto. As long as you have an import permit (which is free) you may import small amounts of seed of one kind or another.
Prior to the change in the law, phyto sanitary certificates were required, and in some cases cost more than the seed itself. Also, the delay caused by having to wait for inspection of the seed, in some cases led to the viability of delicate seed from endangered species being compromised. Further problems arose when the importation of seed was removed from the jurisdiction of the Dept. of Agriculture and placed within the jurisdiction of Homeland Security. The difficulties encountered by various scientific groups, researchers and plant societies in obtaining seed under the old guidelines jeopardized both research of native plants and their endangered status. As a result, the organizations mentioned came together to petition the government to relax the laws governing seed importation.
Last year, the regulations were relaxed for individuals using small amounts of seed for personal or research purposes. Companies importing and selling seed in large quantities are bound by the older guidelines.
During the period of time that small amounts of seed fell under the older guidelines, precious research time and many of the seeds themselves were lost to importation procedures that had them waiting in line for inspection. This is especially true of fleshy seeds from Amaryllids and other tender bulbs.
I'm not quite up on all the details, but all of this information is available through the USDA site.
How do you get an import license. I bought some seeds off ebay from the netherlands but the first ones got confiscated but other than that, there were no consequences.
My seeds from Chile arrived safely and in a very timely manner. I have not planted any of them yet. some of them are peruvian lily types so I am guessing I was a very lucky lady :) I still get emails from that EBay seller regarding new products he is listing on EBay. Thanks so much everyone. God bless, Margo
I'm in my first season with Brugs & dats and have a question. Is Fleur Lilac a Brug? I couldn't fine a reference to it but there is a LaFleur Lilac Dat. If it's a dat, can you cross a dat and a brug? I didn't think you could.
Jan...
La Fleur Lilac is a Dat. I believe there was a dat/brug cross done many, many years ago, but I don't know of its outcome. I seem to remember it was pretty unflattering.
I don't believe it has been done successfully since then. That has been reported, at least.
Fleur Lilac refers to what we know to be "Flava" Brugmansia. The seeds offered were a successful cross of Brugmansia Flava with Brugmansia Engelsglöckchen. No easy task - I might add.
Whoever purchased the seeds is probably aware of how difficult it is to obtain a successful cross with the Flava.
Whoa...I had no idea it was a Dat. The photos I've seen of the crossed plant were of a nifty, iridescent, deep lilac Flava.
This message was edited Jan 1, 2007 3:55 PM
To apply for the small lot of seed import permit, go here: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/ppq/Q37/smalllotsseed.html
You can apply on line but have to go to USDA with your ID to activate it. It's not bad if you have one near you.
Plants still require the whole shabang.
Forgot they were going to change the regs. They hadn't gone into effect last time I checked. They're ready now.
This message was edited Jan 1, 2007 1:35 PM
So, $50 for those 5 seeds was a good price in your opinion? I'm only asking for your thoughts.....I know you know Brugs very well. I think the color is awesome and would just love to have a really pretty lilac brug like the one pictured :)
God bless, Margo
This looks like a naming muddle deriving from a description "lilac[-flowered]" being taken on as a cultivar name. 'La Fleur Lilac' is indeed a Datura, but the plant in this cross is evidently a Hans-Georg Preissel Brugmansia x flava which is usually known simply as 'Lilac'. Inclusion of the word "fleur" in the Brug name is a mistake IMO. See Preissel & Preissel page 85, and Monika G's Engelstrompeten page 38.
This message was edited Jan 2, 2007 8:43 AM
The value of something is generally determined by the one wishing to purchase...and they have their own reasons for paying what they choose to pay. It's like diamonds. Some people value them highly, others know that in times of adversity, diamonds are of less value than a baked potato. Any number of reasonings will not convince either of another view.
The Flava is a difficult plant that happens to bloom one of the most desirable and beautiful flowers on the planet. It is tough to grow and maintain, tough to outcross. The plants themselves are available to only a few and the wait list for them is significant even where they may be found. Seed is difficult to come by. To some, 5 seeds is a windfall - to others, the price seems inflated. It's the diamond thing.
What is beauty worth? :-)
You're so right Liz! I have jewelery that is worthless to me and never worn .... but the first time I saw a Double Pink Brugmansia, my heart went B-O-I-N-G! and I new I had to have one at any price. And so a small obcession was born.
Sorry, did not mean to add confusion.
Here is the La Fleur Lilac Datura DEFINITELY NOT Fleur Lilac Flava.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/621923/
Agree that value is subjective, but the key objective question in assessing the value of these seeds concerns the pod parent. if it is not correctly identified then the buyer may be paying through the nose for seed of a self-fertilising ordinary arborea.
"Agree that value is subjective, but the key objective question in assessing the value of these seeds concerns the pod parent. if it is not correctly identified then the buyer may be paying through the nose for seed of a self-fertilising ordinary arborea."
Oh, that we could tune our electron microscopes into the little dickens and know what's inside. :-)
I think every seed planted is a leap of faith. We think we know, therefore, we plant. I suppose there's something of the gambler in every gardener. Some are willing to keep it to the nickels and dimes, others want to shoot the works, let everything ride on a maybe. It's what makes us a colorful community.
It will tickle all heck out of me if a housewife from Ohio is the first to report a triple blue Brug. I love that stuff. In the meantime, we have this quaint mystery set before us...namely - just what's inside this here seed? :-) Paid for, donated, given in friendship, seeds are lovely things that portend excitement and expectation, fullfilled anticipation or dashed hopes and mirror tiny bits of our own lives. Perhaps, we see something of ourselves in their waking from sleep, onward momentum, excited flowering and inevitable demise. We are all bound, man and seed alike, to an age old and miraculous cycle.
Liz you describe the excitement of growing things from seed beautifully!
But the leap of faith, before parting with a wad of cash, could be shortened considerably by asking the seller how he knows he has 'Engelsglöckchen' as opposed to an ordinary arborea masquerading as that, and whether the flowers were emasculated before their anthers dehisced.
"But the leap of faith, before parting with a wad of cash, could be shortened considerably by asking the seller how he knows he has 'Engelsglöckchen' as opposed to an ordinary arborea masquerading as that, and whether the flowers were emasculated before their anthers dehisced."
Sure. Why not? Although, I'm rather shy about delving into the topic of flower emasculation. It seems so...personal. ;-)
Forgive me. I love joking around.
Seriously, we have to trust to a great degree. I know the fellow selling the seed, and he has proven himself trustworthy and generous. His kindness toward me has been manifold. He has a lively mind, sharp wit and a desire to make new flowers in a responsible way. Further, he is interested in what we, the Brugmansia growing community need to rachet up our gene pool, and he has gone to great expense providing a healthy growing situation for the plants that produce the seed offered. The photo depicts one of his progeny - from seed. I think the outcome attests to his devotion to the scientific protocols and is an indicator of the possibilities.
LOL - not quite as personal perhaps as getting in there and pollinating :-)
True. I know him (virtually) too (and am rather hoping he might offer 'Angel's Flight' x 'Charming' again!). I feel sure that he would not mind being asked a few probing questions about potential $10+ seeds - what paragon of Brugmansia honor would?
This message was edited Jan 2, 2007 11:35 AM