Two Viburnum questions

The first is easy. I remember VV and Kevin in the past referencing an English Viburnum book. Can one of you guys let me know what it's called and if it (to your knowledge) is still available?

Secondly, I have a spot where I could nicely planting two of my favorite shrub: V. x juddii. However, I'm starting to get a little greedy and a little adventurous. I have repeatedly heard about how awesome "Cuyuga" is, but I have not seen or smelled the plant yet. Would this make a nice companion to V. x juddii? I'm looking to extend the fragrant season a bit, so I'm wondering especially if their flowering times overlap. Would another fragrant viburnum which I might not know and grow be a better consideration? The only other "fragrant" viburnums I grow are V. x burkwoodii and a few of the Burkwood cultivars.

Thanks,

Scott

"Viburnum" by Lloyd Kenyon

Get 'Spiced Bouquet', 'Aurora', 'Cayuga', and 'Fullbrook', for a start, and then call Gary Ladman and get his own selections, 'The Blues' and 'Susan Renae'. Grub out a bunch of plants you really don't like THAT much, and plant the above! Oh, and don't forget V. carlesii 'Compactum', which is a rockin' good small version with big fragrant flowers, and good fall color.

Kevin(who has encircled his house with Aurora, Judd, Cayuga, V. x burkwoodii, Chenaultii, Mohawk, Spiced Bouquet, Anne Russell, Compactum, The Blues, Susan Renae, Arrowhead's 'Extremely Fragrant', Sarcoxie, Fullbrook, Summer Hill, Carlcephalum, and V. bitchiuense, just to make sure I get some fragrance in the spring.)

Well, Scott, you might have to eliminate some of those colorfully fruited fragrant Carpinus...

I'm still a big fan of the neighborhood arboretum concept. If you can't bear to part with your lowly Acer, Berberis, or Carpinus (or you refuse to limb them up appropriately), then co-opt adjoining residents (or distant ones along your flight path) and impose voluptuous Viburnum upon them.

Kevin has listed (and planted) most all the great ones; I'd only add V. carlesii 'Diana' and V. x burkwoodii 'Park Farm Hybrid' for the complete collection.

According to my bloom chart records, pretty much all the fragrant forms mentioned in this thread overlap in bloom.

Oops--my mental tour missed 'Diana', which has exceptional fall color, by the way. I haven't acquired 'Park Farm Hybrid' yet--does anyone sell it? Here is my list of dates when flowers first opened on some of mine--I have some V. carlesii from Lowes that flower way late, a full 2 weeks after these listed below. They aren't the prettiest things, but I thought I would keep them around for breeding purposes. With them, I can get get a full month of fragrance.

April 19 V. biutchiuense

April 20 Anne Russell

April 21 Summer Hill, Spiced Bouquet, Diana, Compactum

April 22 Sarcoxie, Fullbrook

April 24 Mohawk, Cheasapeake, Judd, Aurora

April 28 Cayuga

April 29 Chenaultii

May 1 V. x carlcephalum

can I jump on the bandwagon here? I am determined to put in at least 2 viburnum in the spring (my first). I am planning a fairly good sized cottage garden bed, but have to keep the height down. I'm looking at V. carlesii 'Compactum' as a very attractive possibility there. is there a good recommendation for a pollinator? does it need to be a carlesii, if so is 'Diana' a good choice?

I know you will be pleased to find another convert ;0) I have other spots where I can put in taller varieties, but I have to keep under 5' or so here

gram ~a girl~

How do the V. farreri choices fit into this? The plain species (which for some reason I have not seen or heard of much) and V. farreri nana?

Scott

Now.....are you grampapa or grammagirl?

Might have trouble with the cross-pollination concept there.

You can use any of the V. carlesii types, or the V. x burkwoodii, or some of the other hybrids that overlap in bloom time to get pollination on 'Compactum'. If you can find V. x juddii or V. x 'Cayuga', those are both relatively compact growers for me though they are not small plants. They just take their time developing height. They should also be easy to do minor pruning to keep at your stated max elevation.

If you are determined to demonstrate dwarfness, go out on a limb and try 'Conoy'. An excellent small US National Arboretum release developed by Dr. Donald Egolf...

(Pause for reflection, honor, inspiration)

...'Conoy' is an evergreen form of viburnum with the heritage of Viburnum utile x V. x burkwoodii 'Park Farm Hybrid'. It starts blooming after the bulk of the fragrant types are underway, but adequately overlaps to have copious fruit here. It generally grows wider than tall, and makes a handsome dense small-foliaged broadleaf evergreen plant.

Here's a picture from January 2, 2006; 'Conoy' is the small (24-30"; 61-76 cm) chap in the foreground flanked to the right by Viburnum dentatum Autumn Jazz®, Aesculus parviflora, and some mulberry firewood; backed up by Viburnum dilatatum 'Erie' with the coral reddish fruit; in the way back left is Viburnum x 'Cayuga'; and in the near front left fuzzily with remaining blue fruit clusters is Viburnum nudum 'Earth Shade'

OK you viburnophiles, I knew you were all addicted but I did not know how much!

I am a fragrance fan too but I demand at least 2 seasons of interest from all (well almost all) woody plants in my garden. I am wondering which of the many plants listed above have the best fall color? I am relatively inexperienced with this group, had a nice Mohawk in my old garden and it unexpectedly croaked after about 5 years. It sure was nice both for spring fragrance and fall color (as well as clematis scaffolding, an EXCELLENT use for viburnums in general even though it may put off the truest viburnophile, which I probably am not)

Also can someone give a link to George's Nursery?

Thanks, David

See new thread...

Kevin,

I'm interested in your V. carlesii from Lowe's, specifically when you bought them. This past summer, I bought a plant labeled V. carlesii from Lowe's that had foliage that looked very much like 'Eskimo' or perhaps 'Conoy.' Very dark green, smallish, shiny leaves; supplier tag was Hines Horticulture. Wondering if we have the same thing or if yours was purchased in previous years and doesn't match what I have. I don't see 'Park Farm Hybrid' listed often (can't remember the last time) when I look at availablities. I was under the impression that it was superceded by better varieties. I'll have to double check with my boss about the exact identity, but I think we may have a plant on grounds if you wanted some wood.

Scott- in Peoria of last year, V. x juddii was in full flower on 4-15 and 'Cayuga' had flowers just cracking open so there is some overlap. These plants were in a polyhouse that was uncovered in March but generally run about 4-5 ahead of schedule of the natural grown plants. Since I'm a bit south of Kevin, this pretty well confirms his flowering sequence. Fragrance on Judd is sweet smelling and 'Cayuga' leans more towards the spicy smell of Koreanspice. Personally, I like the 'Mohawk' flavor the most but I haven't smell all of the plants that are listed. 'Cayuga' tends to be a bit more upright in shape than Judd and some accuse it of being a bit leggy. I haven't found it to be bad enough to call it leggy. V. farreri is a bit wild growing but 'Nanum' is an exceedingly cute little thing when young. I have not seen mature plants of it, or have forgotten them.

David- from the few plants that I have seen, 'Cayuga' has a nice red/yellow fall color in P.M. shade and has pretty fully dropped now. We have a Judd on ground under an a low branched oak that gets almost no sun and is just no getting a nice purple/red/yellow fall color if my memory serves me correctly. Open grown plants have more of a subdued burgandy/purple color.

To all- I have seen plants labeled V. carlesii 'Compactum' growing 5'-6' tall. I think that I have read that there is some confusion in the trade with this plant. Does anybody know of a source that sells the true 'Compactum'?

Thanks in advance,
Ernie


Edit- all photos taken on the same day to show sequence.

This message was edited Nov 18, 2006 11:31 AM

Ernie:

My Lowes specials were from a year ago, $7 for a 5 gallon fall clearance. They are definitely carlesii. I know exactly the plants you speak of though. I saw them this summer at my Lowes as well. Those were definitely not V. carlesii, but I just figured it was some V. x burkwoodii and passed them by. I have one from there labeled 'Chesapeake', which is not one I would think to grow up here, and VV thought it was in no way such a beast. So, buyer beware there!

I read a Dirr piece once where he thought 'Park Farm Hybrid' the best plant of all of them. If you have it, let us all know!

'Compactum' is surely represented by many different plants, but I think 5'-6' is correct for eventual height. If you read 3', it's just plain wrong. It takes awhile to grow up, but grow up it will. Mike Yanny at Johnson's Nursery in Wisconsin has a selection that is more uniform in growth habit--it doesn't throw up the "wild hairs" as I call them(those faster growing branches that stick out). I don't think he has introduced it yet.

Scott--V. farreri 'Nana' is a great plant. I put several around the house. BUT, it blooms way early, often when its still frigid. I can run out and sniff it, but it's just not as enjoyable as a springtime bloomer. I like the foliage more than anything.

While someone is answering questions about Viburnum spp., would someone please answer me this-- Forest Farm lists Viburnum x bodnantense 'Dawn' as great for butterflies. Now I'm thinking that a shrub that blooms in EARLY spring in cold climates, when there may perhaps be a bit of SNOW on the ground, would not be so hot for butterflies. Unless the caterpillars like to eat the leaves or something. So what use would the average butterfly have for Viburnum x bodnantense 'Dawn' ?

GreenJ:

Zero.

In fact, my oldest Viburnum x bodnantense 'Dawn' is blooming now. Few if any insects (save nosy neighbors) accrue any benefit from this plant and its penchant for throwing blooms just about any time the sun comes out between Halloween and Easter.

Maybe there's a few British or Irish butterflies that fancy it.

OK, thanks! Please tell me it does at least have some fragrance, as advertised?

VV, just to set the record straight, I've never had any trouble with cross-pollination. although my offspring is 6'3", a little too tall to qualify for this particular bed

thanks for the bucket full of info, which I have dutifully recorded, so I won't have to ask again before spring. doesn't look like it should be too tough to find 2 compatible varieties that would be at home in my new bed. there are several pretty good local nurseries I will check first and then go to online sources,

gram ~a girl (last time I checked)~