I was reading the bulb sale booklet tonight and came across something that has me confused and was wondering if anyone can explain this to me.
Under the "orienpet" lilys offered by The Lily Garden they have:
Act Two - ."...........The clones we've propagated from this cross are all so outstanding, and so similar, that we decided to introduce them as a strain".
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My understanding is that a clone is an exact duplicate of the parent. So, a clone of let's say a stargazer will look exactly the same as the stargazer parent. And a strain will be similar to the parent but usually has variations and they are not all exactly the same. So if my understanding is correct (is it correct?) than why would clones they've probagated be introduced as a strain?
Am I missing something here?
Thanks
Maureen
Question on clone/strain in PNWLS bulb calalog
Experts , please weigh in here. I was confused by this too. Maureen, from what I understand of clones and strains, what I believe to be true , is the same as what you believe to be true.
ps. I bought Act Two :0)
I was wondering which one of our lily friends ordered Act Two. Remember you told me the description was in the catalog and I said I thought I threw it out? Well I found it, and was reading the description tonight. That's when I got confused. I really want to see a pic of this.
Let's see what the experts say.
Thanks
Maureen
They are a strain to start with. After years of evaluation, Judith has selected a number of, shall we call them specimens that look very similar and vigorous, nice inflorescences etc. Each of these selections (we'll pretend there are 5 of them) are then propagated by clonal methods, usually scaling. Judith comes up with a name for them (usually picks brains of visitors). THEN she introduces them as a strain. If you buy say, 3 of them, you get random picks from the 5. It is a mix of the 5 selected best specimens from the initial strain (the losers are probably discarded or put in a mix, I don't really know what Judith does with them but they are inferior to the selected 5 and will of course take up space. Some may be saved just for hybridizing material).
Same with Luminaries. It is a strain of I believe 6 different clones making up the mix. Since introduction she has selected one of these and given it a unique name and is propagating and selling it as a clone.
Judith is just being very honest when she tells us it is a strain. Maureen's Act II may look exactly like magnolia's Act II but in reality each is a random pick of the original (let's say 5, hypothetically speaking) selections.
Thanks, pard. It can be complicated, the ancestry of these lilies. Reading McRae's book (yes, I am still getting through it after a month or so) gives me a perpective too on the complexity of what these people do. It's really an amazing science. Also, I applaud Judith's honesty.
Hope your place isn't too wet, pard. My relatives north of Seattle are having a lot of "pineapple express" flooding issues. They are in Mt. Vernon and they have gotten it really bad.
Maureen-- I was just re-reading your thoughts on what a clone is. I need to get more specific here on definition. A clone is not a duplicate of a parent. A clone is created from the plant material of the bulb of interest. The genetic DNA will be exactly the same as that of the original plant. This is done via scaling or tissue culture of the lily bulb. The bulb's parents are something else: the pod and pollen contributors. And even though a lily may look exactly like the parent(s), they are not the same genetically, therefor not clones. Are we all more confused now lol?
Re-reading what Judith wrote about Act II, she infers that this is a single cross. That would make each of the selected lilies for the strain siblings sharing the same parents.
I received my PNWLS fall bulletin yesterday, so members across the country should expect it soon.
A very good and clear explanation, Pard. I wonder how common that is - using a group of clones that compose a strain? Because isn't Maureen also correct in her definition of a strain in general?:
And a strain will be similar to the parent but usually has variations and they are not all exactly the same.
I know Judith sometimes selects clones from the strain and propagates them. I see this as an advantage to the customer as the best have been selected from the group, and the inferior members are not included. The customer can buy with assurance of getting a good robust plant. I can't say one way or the other if other growers do this.
"And a strain will be similar to the parent but usually has variations and they are not all exactly the same." Well I have to ask which parent, if any, do they have to be similar to to qualify as a strain? In most cases the offspring are similar to the parents but more importantly they have to be similar to each other. In the case of the Act II orienpet lilies, their parents are totally dissimilar to each other! The cross, described in the bulb catalog, is "Tetra White Henryi" X "Scene Stealer", a hybrid from "Silk Road". Act II is described as having coloring similar to "Scene Stealer" and the form and vigour are similar to White Henryi.
Ed McRae's definition of strain is: "a group of genetically related lilies that strongly resemble one another, primarily in color and flowering season; derived from repeated crosses of similar parents which consistently produce uniform seedling populations." These are the strains that we are accustomed to: Pink Perfection, Amethyst Temple, etc.
Perhaps Act II would be better described as a grex but I see the two terms loosely used. In the Lily Register it seems like grex is used exclusively as I haven't come across any of the groups described as strains.
http://www.blackdown-lilies.org.uk/Lilies/lilies.htm
Pardalinum - sorry for the delay in responding to and thanking you for this great helpful info. You are so good to share this knowledge with us.
So if I understand this correctly, Act II is a cloned strain?
And does this mean that my Act II can look different from Magnolialover's Act II ?
A grex .....humm, never heard of that. There is so much to learn.
By the way, I got my PNWLS bulletin -- what a great interesting well written bulletin. I read the entire thing. (Can's say that about the daylily bulletins:-) I really enjoyed the bulletin and am happy to be a member of this society thanks to you guys!!
Have a great day ladies, I have bulbs to plant today. Basically only 1/10th of them have been planted. And it's going to rain all day tomorrow.