You're telling my story too Murmur. Right now I'm stuck trying to decide on the 'right'tree for the spot I currentlyhave my Myer lemon in. Of course i first have to move the lemon, but that also means moving my basil which is growing like gangbusters. I have to make the decision, but each tree I think is the right one turns out to be one that will grow too tall, have toobig a canopy, or not be full enough to provide the shade I so desperately need. Two nurseries today, different answers at each and I'm back to the computer tonight still searching.
This yard had not a single tree when I took the house nearly two years ago. I have three now, but have to move one and get one that is fast frowing, stops at the right height and will spread but not too much........... that's not too much to ask for is it?
COTTAGE GARDENS, who has and who wants to start theirs?
Hey Jude, tell us what the right height and spread is for your spot... maybe somebody will have a suggestion that will be just the thing!
For a fast growing little shade canopy, it would be hard to beat a mimosa around here... I have to keep whacking ours back so it doesn't overtake the little maples nearby! It's a multi-trunked one, so it probably spreads more than a single trunked tree would, but I like the gracefully arching branches. Eventually, the maples will be taller than the mimosa, and then I may let it spread more, but if the mimosa overshadows the maples it won't be good. That will teach me to plant my "understory" trees later on!
critter, I sort of drew (using paint) the placement so it will make more sense. I hope that helps make sense out of what I need.
the red line is the power line which runs downward on an angle toward the house from the pole in the alley. I suppose I could plan on keeping the tree pruned not to grow into the line until it has grown taller than the line.
The small green spots are existing oleanders and the large green circle is the place where I want the tree to be to shade as much of the patio as possible. The gray line to the right is the existing block wall.
I had a mimosa in Florida but was told that here I should have a PB(I think that's right) for the same sort of graceful arching effect.
List of requirements includes, FAST growth, shade, litter isn't a factor, I'll sweep as often as needed. If it flowers, great, if not oh well.
rats, I forgot to load the drawing, here it is.
also forgot to add that I'm open to moving the oleanders.
I currently have a Meyer lemon in the spot where I want to plant this tree. The lemon is going to be moved more out in the yard when I find the right tree to shade the patio.
Jude, I hope you are taking lots of before and during photos of your gardens as they change. I think it is so fun to watch. Sounds like you are doing the right thing and really studing before making any changes. I am afraid I am more Murmer's type of gardener. I go to the nursery, come home with a flat of new plants and then wander around the garden with one in my hand until I find a bare spot for it. Sometimes I think it might be worth moving just so I could dig them all up and rearrange them all at once in a new spot. I recently helped Moby, a local DG'er, do just that, but since it was a last minute move and late in the season, she didn't really have much time to plan anything, so those of us who were helping just planted things in the large prepared bed where we each thought they would look good. It may be interesting seeing the results next year. It will probably look better planned than mine does.
What's the scale on that drawing, Jude? And how high up is the line at that end of the house/patio?
getting out the tape measure, back shortly.
right at the house the lines are only 9 feet from the ground.
added dimensions to orig drawing
mimosa is a good choice because even if it spreads too far, it offers filtered sunlight. All the people in your area are talking chaste tree.
I think mimosa would work for that size space, unless there are concerns about invasiveness (or survival) of a mimosa in your area... I don't know what a PB is. ?
The other good thing about mimosas is that they are very prune-able. I whacked ours back by at least 25% for each of the last three years, and it just keeps branching out and regrowing... it's now a well-shaped tree, and it hasn't (yet) eaten the nearby maple. The only other tree I can think of that gets big quickly is a weeping willow, but that may not be suitable for your climate, and I'm not sure about putting willow roots that close to patio paving...
Hey! I want one of those -- drinking mimosas under the mimosa tree...sort of sounds like a song.
Probably not reliably hardy here, but we can't be that different from Maryland! Went to plant files -- how invasive is it? YIKES. These people are rabid. The flowers drop. and become sticky, stinky and unsightly. Don't plant it near your patio or driveway. (?) Jules, You might be happy sweeping everyday, but unless you're going to live in that house forever you might want to consider the next homeowner. We have a Sweetgum tree here (boo hiss) and my neighbor has the trunk of a boxelder on his property (I have the rest of the tree, including the little helicopters fall down & make baby boxelders.) I should have fertilized it with Round Up and weed begone when it was a baby, but I didn't know any better.
How acidic does the soil need to be? It says 4.5-5.0 - highly acidic. Did I choose the right plant? Albizia julibrissin? Jude is your soil really that acidic? I thought the soil was more supposed to be more alkaline west of the Mississippi.
Suzy
If you have allergies, it may be best to avoid the mimosa. Sure is pretty though.
carol
From the PF reviews, I think it's one of those trees that people either love or hate... ours had just a few blooms this year, and it isn't in a place where dropped blooms would be a mess, but I admit I didn't think about that with Jude's patio. In dry AZ, both blooms and seedlings may be less of a problem also (blooms would be unlikely to get wet, and seeds may not sprout with abandon). It's always a good idea to look around the neighborhood and see if anyone else has a tree of a variety that interests you... If you spot one, go and ask about it! :-)
Suzy, you'd be apalled to know how hard I searched for a sweetgum tree that was *not* a sterile variety.... I love those pods! We planted ours at the back of the yard, where it can drop those prickly little things all it wants. Hopefully I won't regret saying that when it matures and starts producing them -- I do go barefoot a lot! LOL
Thanks all, btw, it's Jude not Jules.
I'm checking old posts to find the name of hte PB tree, I forgot but when I saw the pic, I thought it was mimosa at first and was corrected.
I think you're right critter, and I'm going to try to locate a mimosa of size so I have a prayer of shade come summer.
Thanks again for all your thoughts and efforets.
Jude
Had to post in SW to get straightened out this morning on the name of the other tree.
Fish knees came up with it.......... I had the letters backwards and inside out (what else is new) PB RP, close not no cigar.
Anyway, the tree I mistook for mimosa is Royal Poincianna.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/12013/
Jude, I live in zone 8b or sunset zn11 and those trees grow everywhere here in this desert and are not invasive or overly littering and do not freely sucker everwhere, so I guess it would be similar there in your neck of the woods. Litter is a seasonal issue here for a time but not all the time. When it`s young and plyable , you can tie it and bend and shape it like an espalier so it will do what you want more easily for a while.
Thanks hellnz,
I'm still grappling between the RP and the Chaste.
I guess it will come down to which is in the nursery in the size I'm looking for, I'm thinking I will need to find a 24" for shade this summer.
Thanks hellnz,
I'm still grappling between the RP and the Chaste.
I guess it will come down to which is in the nursery in the size I'm looking for, I'm thinking I will need to find a 24" for shade this summer. So far the largest I've found is 15gal and only a Chaste not RP. still on the prowl though.
I never know my zone for a certainty. I've checked others in my area here at DG and see anything from 9a, 9b, 10a, 10b............ in a word my zone is hot. two words, hot & dry.
I'm trying very hard this year to create some small microclimate zones or one larger one, but not sure how well I'll do. Mostly I figure this will be my year of experiments. Next year, I hope to have seen and found enough natives that aren't cacti to be able to grow more things without the struggle of the heat, blazing sun and plants burning.
I'm a midwestern gal at heart and will jsut never learn to love cacti and succulents. I long for the real green I grew up with. That and the smell of water in the air either from Kake Michigan or the Gulf.
Oh how I relate to aaaaall that you said being from Ohio. I am in a hot dry desert as well and am now establishing a microclimate in my yard to start for this year. I have gophers and caliche here to deal with so all gardening is real hard. One side of my yard is just too hot and I am not a succulant cactus person either but out of necessity I have aquired some but to keep in containers for a patio area. OH ya, I have to rabbit proof here too. Yeah. Yeah!!! I had a great micro climate in my other yard, near by and had a great back east style cottage garden so I pray that this year I will come up roses istead of gophers killing the few good plants that survive all the blessed conditions. I miss chocholate soil. Ya know?
LOL! You two. We'll be sure to keep you updated with our midwest weather alerts this winter! I can tell you how I can't get out of my driveway, or I skid on the icy road in front of my house only to have to wait for AAA because Iand my car in my front yard. You can gloat then!
I always have gardened, even as a kid. My very first book when I got a home of my own (age 23) was Sunsets Guide to Gardening. I bought it because it had every plant in the world, but when I got to reading it, I wondered WHAT world! I had never heard of or seen any of them!
I didn't realize until a couple years later that it was for the western states.
I would have a terrible time if I moved out there! I'd just have a hedge of geraniums and a lemon tree because those are the only plants I know!
Suzy
Suzy, you would get into it in a heartbeat, I assure you! We can grow almost anything around here and you would love it . . . come on over!!
Suzy here lemon trees freeze in the winter and geraniums have to be protected from the blazing sun to grow here too so you would really be screwed here. lol
I have a meyer lemon in the spot for the new tree to be planted. Have to move it to more open yard area, which wil mean winter protection when the temps fall overnight. And yes, the rest of my family is north of Chicago so I hear from them in the winter about ocnditions too. But of course when summer rolls around, they get rains, we get none; they get sunshine and we simply burn up; they go out and play inthe sun and get tan, we stay indoors and avaid the sun. There is not utopia within the continental US that I'm aware of, and elsewhere isn't a consideration.
Oh woe is me, that's what my maternal grandmother used to cry, so enough of my belly aching. I WILL find the right tree and get it planted. I will figure out how to get a garden growing and maintained through the summer without irrigation or a drip system. Somehow, I've always managed to do what needed to be done and do it (although I was younger and stronger) and I will continue to do that.
Is there a reason you can`t get a drip line or atleast the bones of a watering system ( buried pvc with some elboes sticking out and capped) going FIRST? You know how hard it is to get things to live without a timer in the desert. I have tried for three years and it is pointless and encourages disease if you work because you end up watering too late and wetting leaves if you water over head and God forbid you leave for a weekend in the summer while establishing plants.
David has offered to put in a drip system for me, but I hesitated because everything he's done here is just a little off from what we talked about and drew plans for.
I had thought I would water around 5am, and again later to cool the soil. Not a good idea? ok, back to the drawing board with Davind and hope he'll folllow the olan this time.
His most recent work here is the beds he dug for me. They're in the right place but the shape is very strange. I was hoping to have him cement the edge in an effort ot keep the bermuda out of the beds, but not in the shape he made. The beds sort of resemble wings without a body in the middle. Today he's supposed to adjust the shape before cementing the edging while I'm at school. I'll see when I get home what actually happened. There are days I dread coming home when he's been here working.
Jude, maybe you can get some landscaper's spray paint (you hold the can upside down and the nozzle sprays downward, like a whipped-cream can, rather than sidewise like regular spray paint) and use it to mark off the edges of the beds that you want... I do that even when it's just me digging! I also like the tip about laying down a garden hose to mark out the boundaries of curved beds... easy to adjust until you get the shape you want, then spray the outline. Do the same thing to mark your layout for drip irrigation pipes.
We actually just ran heavy-duty garden hose out to the beds, then attached dripline or soaker hoses to it... Where the hose crosses the lawn, we dug a little slit-trench and buried it. PVC pipe would probably have been "better," but this was easy.
That doesn`t work for long in the desert and we have done it too but the sun is too hot for the plastic and cracks it . I agree with the spraying thing. plus if you see one blade coming through at any time, just get a qtip and dip it in the strong round up or the green light total vegetation killer(cheaper and stronger) and put it all over the blade or drizzle it on if possible and it will die, you can put reemergent in the bed too now if you aren`t wanting any flowers to self sow in it presently. It only works for 3 months usually. I relate to my husband changing the plans and dreading it, because he will say that is why i never do any yard work because you wil say it is wrong. But it usually is because he is being lazy to do it right.
critter and hellnz
I had sprayed the outlines, David just decided to do his own thing and get creative. I've just spent the last hour remarking the new outline and he's busy with that. Sheesh I hope he gets it right today. He's such a big help to me, I can't possibly dig this dirt and he doesn't have to do any of this. I really do appreciate his help, just get frustrated when he makes changes on me. He's young and willing, strong back, weak . . . .oops I shouldn't say that.
Soaker hoses would be great but I don't think I can get them into the beds right once planted. So, I guess I have to install a system to keep it growing. That will be the project for after the holidays. I can't think about that now. For the moment I have to either make or buy stepping stones so I can reach to even plant the beds. I don't want tohave bare spots where the stones will be so, I'm trying to work that out first too.
Who ever said gardening is relaxing should come and try working in this yard, it's stressful from sun up til sun down.I'm hoping once the beds are established the fun will begin, looking for more pantings and arranging things to be just the way I have pictured. Non-standard cottage garden, because of the climate but cottagey none the less.
hellnz, David just told me that CPVC will stand up to the heat/sun. should I believe him? It's supposed to be different than standard PVC.
Hang in there, Jude - I'm sure it will be worth it in the long run! I had a spot this summer that I couldn't work (a garden overtaken by grass and weeds), but it is soaking wet now so I can do some digging. I know you don't have that luxury. I outlined one of my gardens first with twine, then when I was happy with that I used lime. One of my stepsons "helped" me rototill, but he's not a gardener so didn't get that it was important to follow the line. I still appreciated what he did, although I normally do my own tilling. The picture here was taken of the garden I did in 2004.
I love it, it is great. Oh no I didn`t mean pvc would not hold up, I meant that the soaker hoses do not last long in our heat unless you put them in pvc and drill holes. pvc does work here too but i will check out the cpvc too. thanks. You are the only other person with maybe one guy with gophers who does not love gardening because it is so hard to do where you live, besides me. I hate it but I have to have one dang it.
hellnz, I got used to clay soil in the midwest and sandy soil in Florida. They had their unique problems attached, but there is nothing like caliche. Maybe if I was 40 years younger, it would be different, but past 60 caliche kicks my a** each and every time I go outside.
Amen brother, I am singing the blues right @ your side. I got bags and bags of gympsum and I started watering it real well in all the places where I am going to substantially dig or till and I am hoping that we will get the rain this winter that they are saying we will get so it will water it in real good so that in late winter I can dig my holes with eaze and uncompact that caliche devil.this is funny but @ my old house I planted a black mission fig in a bed of caliche, I kept adding some gypsum etc. but the tree never grew in three years even 1 inch. So before the rain (if you can call it) season I put a whole bag of gypsum under the tree and nature watered it in. You know that darn tree grew the three years worth of growth, all in one spring, that same year.
I can believe it, nature is very strange in this soil.
did you see the posts Jo (roadrunner) shared with the dirt buster tool? It works very well, I just don't have the strength to dig the soil after either.
this tool was one she fashioned out of iron pipe, I found one very silimar at HD in the hose dept already made in one piece. It's supposed to be used to deep water tree roots but works really well for breaking up caliche. shove it in an inch or two, turn on the water, then push it in deeper. I was able to psh it nearly to the handle, but couldn't lift the loosened dirt afterwards.
There is a learning curve to use it without taking a bath in mud, so consider yourself forwarned. There's a shut off on the handle.USE IT or be covered in mud.
lol yes caliche will suck the shoes right offyour darn feet. I know the tool it is also used for running a hole under walkways so you can run pvc sprinkler lines under walks and such. That is a good idea as you said with some discernment. Plants don`t like their roots sitting in the bathtub so the soil has got to drain which remains a battle after the holes are dug. I like compost from wood sand and good soil ammend stuff with clippings to toss in but now I have to cage everything i bury from vermin and fense off everthing I plant. Could it be worse? Yes as you said , I could be in my 60`s and still trying to cope with it. I should have moved to one of those cement cities. Not.
NOT!
I'll conquer this yard/garden project this summer or possibly die trying.
I've got plans for lots of vines tomake life easier, if they'll stay up and not overrun the bermuda until I'm ready to get rid of it altogether. Bulbs arrived today and I just realised I ordered things sent to me which should have gone to my son in the midwest, oops. Now i'll try shipping them to him without the certification and hope they arrive.
I'm off to twilight zone, long day and I'm pooped.
manana
Hasta luego amigo. I second the vines and all things climbing.
Hey grampapa, what kind of program do you have? that you did the landscaping on?
Connie
Hi, Connie. It's 3D Home Architect Design Suite. Here's a link to their web site. I have the whole 'box', but I think you can buy just the landscaper. I built my whole house on it before we actually built so I could play with it and decide room sizes and such even though we had an architect. so I have my whole house and actual lot down to the foot and orientation (north-south) exact. the plants aren't perfect, but it's not too bad to work with. I got used to it before I started on the landscaping.
http://www.3dhaonline.com/
gram
Thanks alot Gram :o) Will check it out.
Connie
Jude, I used to garden in Arizona. I do love the desert (and cactus) but moved on when they started paving the whole darn thing. When I go to Arizona I want to go there 30 years ago, but can't figure out how to do that.
Since you have no drip system at the moment, perhaps you might be able to use my old method. You know how the people who irrigate have little shallow ditches and the plants growing in little mounded rows with the water running alongside them? After trying that I found out when using just a garden hose the little mounds were always too dry but the ditches were fine. Things worked much better when I wised up and planted everything in the little ditches. Solved most of my water problems.