Late Fall planting/watering/dormancy

How can I tell when a tree or shrub is dormant and does not need additional watering? (I am assuming that too much water around a dormant plant will rot it - right?)

Some examples of what I have planted so far that I would like to know about:

(1) Viburnum Morton - still a fair amount of green but turning into reds (planted about 4 weeks ago)

(2) Viburnum Winterthur - in the process of getting Fall color when I bought it and planted it about 8 weeks ago. Looked gorgeous on top growth but horrendously rootbound. The roots were white but looked like a large frozen pile of miniature small intestine, or that dehydrated oriental noodle soup that you add water too and it swells into a pile of small intestines. I soaked, then wacked, stabbed and chopped trying to break some of the roots apart, to little avail. (I'll be surprised is this one survives.) It has kept its top color an never looked droopy or stressed, though over the last week a just a couple of leaves turned black, and it is loosing leaves. I haven't watered it in over a week, maybe 10 days now, though there has been one period of steady rainfall.

(3) Viburnum Earthshade - small, planted about 6 weeks ago. Not at all rootbound in the container. Still green and looking good, just starting a few leaves color change.

(4) Cornus alternifolia - Came with not many leaves on it, still has them , still green. Not rootbound, planted about 6 weeks ago.

(5) Cornus florida "Cherokee Princess" planted 2 days ago. Red leaves, red fruit, many buds. The leaves are pretty droopy now that's its planted. I'm hoping just transplant shock.

(6) Clethra - two of the three plants are turning bright yellow. One is just starting to turn, and its leaves didn't perk up after planting as much as the other two's did. This third one is getting more sun, not real direct but more than the others.

(7) Red twigged dogwood, can't remember the Latin or cultivar right now. Green and white leaves that are turning pinkish and drying out. Not sure if that is normal Fall behavior or not (?) Planted two days ago.

Everything was planted with a lot of water. The older plantings were regularly watered. Now that it is much later in the season, especially for the newest plantings, I don't know what to do about watering.

Help; thank you!

I would keep them watered until the ground freezes, at least one inch of rainfall or water a week. Then mulch them with cedar bark chips or chopped leaves, to keep the ground temperature constant. I hope your Cherokee Chief has time to recover. That sounds like "normal " fall behavior for a dogwood, sounds like you have C. alba 'Bailhalo.'

notgrnjean - Boy, you certainly are ambitious this fall! I'll second Prairie Girl's advice, although take into consideration that they will be going dormant soon and with the rain Mother Nature normally provides in the fall, you shouldn't have to be too concerned with worrying about watering. Mulching will be the most important task to make sure to protect them from frost heaving over the winter. I've been in a planting frenzy myself this fall but Mother Nature's timing has been perfect and the only things I've had to worry about are the ones still in the pots that didn't get planted!

I put some prairie dropseed that I picked up for $1.50 each into the compost pile, pots and all, I'm really hoping that they are okay through the winter. Or do you think I should plant them? Or bring them inside, we have an unheated front porch, or what?

Thanks, PG. You are right about the C. alba too.

Although I know dormant plants are not dead, it seems to me that they would use less water as they get closer to dormancy. Maybe that is falsely "logical" because I don't see them growing and leafing and needing as much water, and I cannot observe the effects of too little water because there are fewer/no leaves to clue me in.

I've never planted in the Fall before I'll use NOAA records to keep track of rainfall and use that to determine supplemental watering. Right now our grounds are pretty well saturated. Slopes where I walk my dog still have seeping run-off across the roads in places. I planted my last blueberry bush tonight, and the ground was almost soggy, not just damp. I know too well how to kill plants by dehydrating them; I don't want to learn how to drown them )

rcn48, I have been in a planting frenzy! After clearing a huge area of vinca and ivy, I had the urge to plant instead of destroy. I started going around to nurseries to "just look", but I was bitten by the bug, the "sale" signs, and all the stuff I've read on DG. Next Spring will tell how well I learned.

You're right, watering is esp. important for evergreens, not so much deciduous plants, but a tree with a dry root ball cannot absorb water. Cold winds and winter sun cause plants to lose water from their branches, and they have to be able to get it from the roots in order to survive. Mulching is more important, don't forget to wait until the ground freezes before mulching newly planted trees. This will prevent wide soil temperature fluctuations.

Here's a page on some watering tips, although the dowel rod trick may be the relevant idea to try...

http://www.mdvaden.com/watering.shtml

Mulch is a huge factor.

jeannotgrn:

Good advice given above, and you've got just enough worryin' going on to keep track of your new children. I'd only add: invest in a soil probe or soil corer. It is a hollow tubular device with a T handle that you push into the ground, and when you pull it out you have a core of soil with it. Then you can evaluate your soil moisture conditions at various depths. You can collect soil samples for analysis this way.

It can also be used to whack annoying neighbors or hit acorns over the fence.

Leaves of plants at this time of year are barely functioning at all, so they are using very little water and need little if any irrigation. Even if the leaves were functioning, and they did become too dry, wilt and fall off, it doesn't really matter. What's important right now are not this year's leaves but next year's buds. If you've got healthy buds, you're in good shape with or without irrigation. You just want to be sure the soil is a little moist so that the roots do not desicate, but at this time of year--barring an Biblically disturbing hot drough--soil moisture really isn't a worry.

This is one reason why fall is such a great time of year to plant things!

Evergreens might require a little bit more moisture, but most of them are pretty much closing shop this time of year too. Although they stay green, mostly they are dormant and using very little water too.

Plants properly planted in the ground are much safer during winter than those in containers. Unless in a climatically controlled greenhouse, soil temperatures will fluctuate far more wildly in container medium. And keeping the medium properly moist is much more of a challenge than just putting plants in real, garden soil. I would plant the Prairie Dropseed, which is hardy all the way down to zone 3. Just try to get the roots out of the potting mix and into your real garden soil so it is less likely to get popped out of the ground by frost heaving. Mulching, as RCN48 suggested, goes a long way of relieving this worry as well.

Regarding the V. nudum root system, try dunking the root mass up and down in a bucket of water to try to free the roots from the potting mix. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. V. nudum root systems are quite strange. They can fill a pot in no time and rather than just hitting the edge of the pot and spinning in circles, they seem to push their way into every bit of space in the container. I don't think I've seen any other root system quite like them. They are a little like Rhodie roots, but not thread like and thin, but massive and white. Do the best you can, but I wouldn't be too surprised if the plant succeeds despite being so root bound. V. nudum is one tough, tough, customer.

Scott

This message was edited Nov 2, 2006 7:50 PM

Scott, thanks for that about the V. nudum roots. They were white and all about the same size and just crammed into the container. I had soaked the container in a tub for about two hours. Not too many bubbles came up. I can't remember even seeing potting medium for the roots! I was able to loosen and sort of spread a few individual roots but overall it was just a block. I can't imagine how water would be able to get into the center of that root ball.

I saw your picture of the fruiting Winterthur and I wanted it, I wanted it! It wasn't hard to find, but after I planted it I read I needed another nudum. That was hard. I found a small Earthshade at Rarefind. It seems to be doing quite well. (Any reasonable possibility that if the Winterthur survives the small Earthshade will have some blooms for cross pollination?)

Winter mulching - how frozen is frozen, and if the mulch is to mediate the temperature, does that mean it should be in a wide area out from the center? And is the temp higher at the center of the plant, or is it the surrounding area? Would mulching before freeze be bad?

VV, I'll google for soil probes. That sounds like an anxiety reducer as well as an interesting way to learn more about this strange activity called "gardening".

Mulch insulates a little bit, extending the fall root expansion.

It also reduces rain caused soil compaction and erosion.

Here's my mulch page...

http://www.mdvaden.com/barkdust.shtml

Half my pages started with forum posts. Sure saves writing time.

How many readers read this and felt justified for the same emotions. Thank you notgrnjean for expressing what we all who garden do. LUST AFTER WHAT WE DON'T HAVE. But I know that in gardening unlike life we can yeild to this and God only smiles. Gardening is good.

"Wintherthur" and "Earthshades" are the two V. nudums I've got, and they cross-pollinate and berry very well. I've germinated seeds from the cross and the seedlings are uniformly excellent. Although none have reached flowering and berrying stages yet, there is no reason to believe they'll let me down on that front, and the foliage is every bit as good or better than either parent.

One important thing that mulching does is it acts as an insullation and moderates temperature fluctuations of the soil. This minimizes greatly the number of times the soil freezes at night and thaws during the day, which tends to be very hard on newly planted plants, which more often than not have got all their roots in a ball directly beneath them. The broader this layer of mulch (within reason), the more effective it is for this purpose.

Scott