How baby lilies relocate

Another DG person and I are curious as to how a baby bulb manages to pull itself down in the soil to where it should be growing as it matures. We'd love any information about it. Thanks.

AS I understand it, lilies have what are known as Tractile roots. These are what help lilies adjust there depth. Now how this happens, is beyond me.

I read the same information about Tractile roots. They are located at the base of the bulb and pull the bulb down to the right depth (in light soils). It would be fascinating to have a picture or a graphic explaining how these roots actually pull though :)

Thanks for the "tractile roots" information. I Googled it and found this introduction to the subject:

Root contraction in hyacinth IV. Orientation of cellulose microfibrils in radial longitudinal and transverse cell walls.

True, it's about hyacinths, but the balance of the text was packed with fifty cent words that I didn't get through on my first cup of coffee!!!

I read (somewhere) that it is a reaction to heat. So when the bulb is close to the surface the heat of the soil sets off the contractile reaction, which as pirl has noted is complex as is most aspects of life.

I could probably grasp the concept easier if something was getting smaller as it worked it's way down in the soil. It's the fact that it gets progressively larger and can still accomplish the mission that stuns me.

It's all pretty amazing, isn't it? Did you read on B&D Lilies site about their Superbums that moved I think a half of a foot down, those giant bulbs , exhibition and private harvest ones that they just dug. They sounded pretty amazed too.
Edited to add the quote from their e-mail sent yesterday.

"About the L. superbum - last Friday we lifted our display bed planted in 1996 and featured on the cover of our Fall 1999 catalog. Those bulbs grew undisturbed for nine years and consistently produced 8 to 11 foot stems in the past four to five years. Photographed by hundreds of visitors and suspected polyploids studied by graduate students, this is your chance to experience a piece of horticultural history. When lifting this bed, we found bulbs that had pulled themselves 15 inches deep to damp clay, so work your soil accordingly and plant with about 6 inches of soil covering the bulbs to start."
B&D Lily email regarding 2006 Fall Harvest


This message was edited Sep 29, 2006 12:35 PM

The miracles of nature are always present but the lilies relocating is a super miracle to me.

I was reading something today and the correct term is "contractile roots." Makes more sense.

Interesting point pirl!

Thinking about it, if you imagine a seed sending down a new root, it has that ability to place itself where it needs to be.

Now imagine a bulb, with bigger roots, and the roots want to go deeper to find water. They are bigger roots and so is the bulb, so really it shouldn't be that much more difficult for the roots to pull the bulb down, after all it is attached to them and will have to follow!

This site will give a little insight to the make-up of roots

http://academic.kellogg.cc.mi.us/herbrandsonc/bio111/roots.htm#forms

There is a good explanation of the process here,

http://www.cactus-art.biz/note-book/Dictionary/Dictionary_C/dictionary_contractile_roots.htm

All about roots

http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/botanytextbooks/generalbotany/typesofroots/index.html

Thank you, so very much, Wallaby. Now I understand the process. Still a miracle to me but now I see how it happens.

Yes, that is how I have always known them - contractile roots.

In many bulbs like Fritillaria, daffodil or Gladiola (but I don't think Lilium), contractile roots are very different looking compared to "regular"roots. Usually there are relatively few of them, and for small bulbs and the minor bulbs, often only one. I also speak from experience here. Contractile roots are quite thick and have an accordion look to them. Contractile roots are always exactly vertical, with the accordion pleats running horizontally. Roots extend down as far as they want to I guess. The pleated, thick strand has no other roots at all, except at the very end (and bottom) of the extension. These are what anchors the bulb. As the contractile root dries, it shrinks, and pulls the bulb down.

According to Ian Young, a noted Scottish rock gardener (and frit specialist), production of these contractile roots put a lot of strain on seedlings from zero to three years old or so. I would suppose that when transplanting a seedling, planting it a bit deeper than previous would be advantageous.

Now what this all means for lilies, beats me. Just thought it was interesting. If it isn't for you know, it will be when you happen to dig a bulb up with the silly looking root attached. With little bulbs, it can almost look like the bulb is set on top of a very narrow pedestal.

That made me think lefty, what you said "With little bulbs, it can almost look like the bulb is set on top of a very narrow pedestal."

I recently dug up a few offset bulbs from some Asiatic lilies. They were just as you explained! The parent bulbs were some that I grew for 2 years after taking from some large bulbs I moved from pots to the ground, they were very small and still not huge when I planted them in the ground but grew extremely well and flowered very well that year, and the following 2 years.

It has been mentioned that young lily bulbs are better than mature ones, living longer. Now I can see the relationship between age and logevity. If they make the contractile root at a young age, loosing it later, the bulb is likely to better establish if planted when young, as opposed to one which doesn't have this type of root.

I don't know if that is quite true. Just because a bulb is older, doesn't mean it can't grow contractile roots. However, those roots, I would think, would be less effective due to the difficulty of pulling a large bulb down. And, unless most everyone was planting a large bulb at the incorrect depth, that would not explain the shortgevity (which BTW, I still don't buy into).

And now that you mention it, I think I have seen contractile roots on lily stem bulblets. What an opportune time for this discussion. Now we will all be able to go out and check when we are digging bulbs. Southern hemisphere folk, well, your out of luck.

OK, this is when I wish I had a microscope. After reading this thread about contractile roots, I went to the propagator where I currently have about a dozen bulbils removed from a no-name asiatic lily in my garden. I lifted out the largest one with a probe, and what do you know, 1 white "normal' root and three "contractile" roots were growing out from the base of the bulbil. The contractile roots looked very much like the flat intestinal worms commonly found in the upper gut of small mammals (sorry folks, gross but true), with rings of contractile tissue in a flat -- not round-- root.

Too. Cool!

I am totally engrossed in this discussion and thrilled that I started the thread. Thank you all for your great debates - it makes for a most interesting read.

pirl, great minds work together! I too am thrilled you started this thread! We bounce off each other beautifully!

greenjay, I can't see your roots very well, it's a little blurry.

I had some bulbils on my L. Bellingham Hybrid, all at the top in each leaf node. Yesterday, after we had a good rain, I noticed several roots growing from them and the main stem was starting to yellow, so I took them off and planted them in a long window type tub in a gritty, leafy mix, and piled some leafy compost on top. I will leave mine outside as I think they will grow fine there in a sheltered spot. I have grown very small Asiatic offset bulbs like that with good success, I'm perhaps in a warmer zone.

I got 33 of different sizes, most already had good roots or just starting to make roots. Do they look like yours? I can't really see the concertina effect, but there does seem to be vertical lines on some.

You said your roots are flat, is that on both sides or have they got a rounded top? The roots of mine were wrapping themselves around the leaf below, or venturing down the main stem, I wonder if this would give them a flat surface?

The old stem and leaves are even more yellow today, we had about an inch of rain last night. These little bulbils were in readiness with the rain, roots made, to drop to the ground and take root!

Wallaby, what a nice batch of bulblets! They look so happy and healthy.

Closer

They do don't they! Hohohoho, who is going to want to trade these when they get bigger?

The stem before removal

I'm impressed beyond words! Great job, Wallaby!

Since you're obviously a marvel with lilies I have a question for you:

I've just made yet another huge purchase of various Orientals, OT's and Asiatics. Should I be brave enough to take scales from the newcomers and plant them either separately or near the mother plants? Is it something you'd do?

Thanks so much for your help!

pirl, I haven't tried scaling yet, pardalinum is probably the person to ask on that! I may just try it though with L. gloriosoides (scared to death of damaging it!)

You should take a little of the base plate with the scale, that's where it roots from. I wouldn't plant them near the mother plant, they are best placed in a bag with moist compost and I think putting them in the fridge is the best route, until they form bulbils. I think I have read they can be placed in a dark cupboard with warmth also, I will have to check it out, I did read up on it some time ago in my RHS book, I seem to remember that is what it recommended. I know pardalinum has some in her fridge!

I would definitely give it a try, who knows it may work, and just think how excited you will be when you get your new babies! Don't take too many scales,1 or 2 shouldn't harm the bulb.

Thank you for your help. They won't be arriving for weeks yet so I can get more details from books, too. You've been a big help - thanks so much.

Wallaby1 do the bulbils that don't have roots grow them when planted? The reason I ask is that, I read that removing them from the stem could damage them and all of the ones I removed didn't have roots :*( I planted them in some moist soil at a temp. of 65-72F. Keeping my fingers crossed...

That hasn't made a difference on the ones I started. I even saw roots growing in the set I put in the propagator on pieces of one that fell apart.

intercessor, they should grow roots, I think the thing is to wait until the time is right for them to be removed from the stem, and when it rained, roots grew, the old stem started to die back, it would appear to be the best time to do that. If roots haven't already grown I would think it's only because there hasn't been the right conditions, but once you give the right conditions they should grow.

I think the damage may be caused if removed too early, these came off fairly easily, even those that didn't look like they had roots did have the beginnings of them. There will be a very small base plate on each bulb, which is necessary for it to root from, if that was torn off completely when removing them you might not be successful.

As greenjay says, his have grown when falling apart, but they probably had some base plate. I had two that lost just one scale when removed but as I have a lot I didn't bother with them. Good luck!

she.

sorry greenjay, me too and I get called a he!

Ok, so I'm not even pretending to understand everything stated in this thread ... but I swear that my spider lily bulbs pull themselves down into the soil deeper. I don't ever dig up anything for the winter because... well... I don't have to here in FL , BUT, I have had to move things around a few times in the past few years, and I would bet money that my spider lily bulbs were much deeper than when I planted them (and I didn't add any additional soil). In fact, they were so deep that they were difficult to dig up. My crinium lilies didn't seem to do this... only the spider lily's. So,,,,,, do they have contractile roots or what is happening?

Oh, and wallaby... those bulblets grow ON the plant?? I've never seen that before!

LA, I'm surprised if your Crinums haven't gone deeper. I have read of them going at least 3 feet deep, they can take several hours to dig out!

I think most bulbs do this, it will depend on where the water is and your type of soil, but a bulb wants to live so nature has provided it with the means to survive.

Have you ever heard of carrots being better dryish while forming roots? Too much water will make the roots stay shallow, they have a tap root which will go deep to find water. Of course they need some water, and once the roots are established more water will assist in them filling out. This priciple could be applied to bulbs, but each genus has different requirements so not always.

Yes the bulblets do grow on the plants, only on the top section, some lilies do it, others can send out offsets under the ground.

When scaling, I don't think it is necessary to take a piece of the basal plate with. It certainly can't hurt, but I think the main idea is this: when removing a scale, the closer you sever it to the basal plate, the better success you will have, and taking the tiniest piece of the basal plate is optimal. Back before I knew about the BP business, I was simply told to get the whole scale, and it would work every time.

Bulblet forming from scales is done at room temperature (or there-abouts), not in the frig. Because most scaling is done in the fall by convenience, bulblets form during the early winter, and after that they are put in the frig for vernalization. Without that cold treatment (vernalization), they may not put up leaves when planted in the spring or put under lights. The cold temperature will also help keep energy reserves stored for spring growth. Energy reserves that would otherwise be used up in the warmth. Scaling is not done in regular soil! Use a porous medium like vermiculite, or I use peat. I would call it barely moist, not moist like if you were germinating seed.

Wallaby, contractile roots have "lines" running transversly across the root, not vertically and parallel to the root. Your bulblets do not have these. Greenjay's pic is too fuzzy to know for sure, but it kinda looks like the near white root is a regular root, while the other two could be contractile.

Great information - thank you so much.

Wallaby - My crinums may have and I just didn't notice as much as with the spider lilys. I've cussed more than once trying to get a spider lily to release and have accidentally chopped one or two in half . The crinums give me trouble because they just keep expanding with new bulbs underground and they are all attached together. I usually manage to break a couple of them too. I have too many... it will be time to start shipping them out to interested parties again soon LOL!! Oh and that makes sense about the carrots!!

LAKelley, do you know what your sort crinums are? I'm beginning to try growing them here, they are not sold as a rule, and only about 3 varieties. I have some growing from seeds which got through the last winter in the greenhouse no trouble. Unfortunately I had some more which I got as young plants from someone in Florida, including a nice purple, only 2 out of 6 survived, the purple rotted, but the survivors are starting to grow well.

I just found this interesting thread. I have dug and dug to find my oriental lily bulbs. They definitely moved down.

I just finished my first successful scaling. What fun! Here's a link to instructions. I used soiless potting mix instead of vermiculite. Also, I have read in a number of places that putting your baggie with the lily scales under a stack of newspaper, magazines or clothes gives faster results. It mimics the weight of the ground pressing on a scale. I forgot abt mine and left it abt 2 months. By that time, some had roots that were 5-6" long. I untangled the roots and potted up 7 scales. I was unsure how deep to plant them and couldn't find anywhere that mentioned that so I went with abt 1". So far, 4 of the 7 pots have 3 or more leaves growing in them. I plan to plant them, pot and all, on the protected east side of the house, covering them well with leaves. Hopefully they will return in the spring. Contact beaker_ch for more info abt scaling. I recd a number of the scales from her. Have fun! http://www.landspro.com/page2.htm

Great news Kooger. Thanks for sharing a success story. Interesting about wt. of magazines, clothes etc.
Hope you a feeling better too. seems I read a note somewhere from your daughter about a hospitalization? Get well & welcome back!

Great link: fantastic information! Thank you so very much.

Thanks, magnolialover. A 4.5 day hosp. stay ended up being 12 days with a 2nd emerg. surg. No fun! Weak but getting better slowly. I was worried sick abt my lily scales. DH set everything out where the rain would hit them and we did get rain once, thankfully, as that was all he would contribute to my obsession. :) Only 3 had leaves when I left and the 4th pot had 3 leaves over an inch tall when I got home. I would have done the happy dance if I could have. lol I can't wait to try it again - what a blast to see those little babies growing! Here's another link with Alice's pics - you have to scroll down to aknapp's Oct. 31st post. http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/457454/ Read inanda's posts for good info too. I thought maybe I would just copy them over here, hope that's ok on your thread, pirl.

And some good info from inanda---

Such great information. Thanks for all the help, kooger, and I hope you're feeling better fast.