How is manure bad for lilies?

My first gardening book (I recieved as a gift as a middle-schooler, nearly 30 years ago) was specifically about bulbs. It recommended manure for lilies, which I've often used on practically everything in the garden, and had good results with. However, now I'm reading that manure is'nt recommended for lilies and wondering why. I only use well composted manure, but am concerned that I'm inviting some future problem. Thanks in advance,
Neal

Not an expert on this, but my thoughts are high nitrogen, but if it is well matured then that shouldn't be a problem. I don't know how long it would take to rid excess nitrogen, there was site I found before giving the nitrogen content of different manures and some are very high.

Perhaps the place you read this was being on the cautious side, as a lot of people wouldn't go into the legthy time requirements and may use manure which is too fresh.

Nitrogen levels should be low,

http://www.bdlilies.com/lilium.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15981871&dopt=Abstract

Don't know what Poassium is, sounds like a mis-spelling.

A few articles here, the type of food the animlas are fed on can make a difference apparently

http://aolsearch.aol.co.uk/web?query=%27manure+effect+on+lilium%27&isinit=true&restrict=wholeweb

gemini, I was wondering the same thing, after reading a different thread. Thanks for posting this. I'd love to hear thoughts on the subject. Have used well composted manure in new beds and have had great results.

I plan to top dress with steer manure, the stuff in bags. I will experiment with my Scheherazade since I have 7 or 8 of them growing under the same conditions. I experimented earlier this year using epsom salts on one or two of them and definately could see a difference from the untreated ones. Will do a similar experiment with the steer manure. To repeat: it will placed over the bulbs (top-dressed), not dug in, though it apears to be well composted.

Pard, epsom salts? Do elaborate, please? What did you find the difference to be, as compared with the untreated ones?
Another thing I've read....planting an aspirin w/ lilium? Benefits?

Thanks for the research Janet! Nitrogen could very well be the issue, but I only use manure when it's well rotted, so that could be why I never had a problem.

20-some odd years ago I had some orangy-copper trumpet lilies that were reaching about 4', until one fall I dug them up and ammended the soil with manure. The next year they were over 6' with lots more blooms. This could also have had to do with the bulbs maturing more as well, but they appeared to like the manure.

Pard, I 2nd magnolialover's question about epsom salts. I've read about lots of people using it on roses with good results. What kind of differences did you see in your experiment?

When bulbs (lilium I'm talking about here) come into contact with manure old or new, fusarium rot problems may result. Usually do so I'm told - same as iris. So, you can put manure at the bottom of your hole, cover well - very well - with your soil then plant your lily bulb. This way the roots will eventually get the nourishment from the manure but the bulb will be OK. Lilium bulbs have two types of roots. The bottom basel roots are often used to pull the bulb down to a deeper level so the bulb might get mixed up with the manue because of this.

Myself, I would NEVER EVER do this. I plant the bulb and in the fall or during winter, I top dress very well with old well composted manure. This way the nutrition gets to the stem roots (which are what mainly feed the plant). I also use epsom salts for watering, along with alfalfa tea.

So, keep your manure as top dressing or mulch for your lilies. That will do them the most good.

inanda

RE: Epsom salts............ These lilies were showing signs of chlorosis (kind of splotchy yellowing) and the epsom salts greened them up after a couple of weeks. I don't know what the mechanism is. Either the magnesium itself does it or it assists in the uptake of other nutrients.

All of my home made compost is reserved for the lilies-- top-dressed.

Next year I think I will get in on one of the Messenger co-ops and try that stuff out.

Don't know anything about aspirin.

Thanks inanda. I was'nt familiar with the fusarium rot issue. Come to think of it, I've typically put a bit of manure in the hole, some soil, the bulb, more soil, then the majority of the manure with the feeder roots in mind. I may have thwarted the problem unknowingly.

I had a couple of lilies that were chlorotic looking this year- I'll be sure to try epsom salts. How much do you add to a gallon of water?

Epsom salts. I add 2 heaping tablespoons per watering can. For chlorosis it could be an iron problem, particularly if there has been lots of rain in your area. In that case I use chelated iron, can is outside to can't tell you how much. It says on the container. I use it along with epsom salts in watering can, as a foliar feed. I drench the plant. Takes only a few days to start looking better.

While on the subject of watering cans, I grow Japanese and LA iris which like an acidic ground. So... I water then using vinegar in the water.

inanda

Hmmm... hadn't thought of using vinegar on JIs. Is your soil neutral to alkaline inanda? I started topdressing my JIs with composted steer manure and it really made a difference, even brought some back from almost dead lol. Yup I think I will have a pretty good JI show next year. Stay tuned on the iris forum!

Magnolia ~ as far as the aspirin, did you get your info from a magazine article? If so, I think we've determined that you can disregard many of the "tips" included therein.

Gemini, remember some lilies naturally have light green leaves and are not chloritic. These of course, will possess the same shade of green leaves throughout the stem. Also leaves can become bleached by the sun, or similarly by a severe lack of water.

A magnesium defficiency can cause chlorosis (as can an iron defficiency). With Fe or Mg chlorosis, leaves may look yellow, but closer inspection will reveal green veins with yellow interveinal areas. Iron chlorosis shows up on new leaves first, and is usually predictably uniform. Magnesium chlorosis symptoms can be new or older leaves, and can be uniform or splotchy. The veinal/interveinal coloring can be very distinct or fuzzy.

Moby- I did read that in that lily article over the summer in a "gardening magazine". I'd never heard of using aspirin in gardening at all and wondered what effect one was trying to achieve with this, as the article did not say.
Soil here is very alkaline. I work very hard to keep this Endless Summer Hydrangea in blue color. The pink just won't do :0)
Have had chlorosis in the leaves at times. The leaf actually looks darker in some areas, then lighter in other areas of the same leaf. We've had an abundant amount of rain here this year.( I could send you some, Pard. ) It has made my red raspberries taste very dilute. Perhaps the chlorosis issue is an abundant water issue this year too.

Aspirin = willow bark = willow bark tea = good for rooting cuttings.

First nation people chew willow when they have a headache.

I used to make willow bark tea long long ago. Chop up new willow growth (lots) and pour boiling water over it. Let it steep for a few days and then soak woody cuttings in it prior to planting. Also good to use for watering newly plantd cuttings.

Our soil up here is very alkaline. Quite a few people have have hydrangeas here which they water with vinegar so the blue colour does not change to pink.

So, don't think it would do too much for lily bulbs.

My JIs and LAs (iris) get fed muchly too. Makes a great deal of difference.

I think Epsom Salts makes it possible for plants to more easily take up micro nutrients such as zinc, magnesium, other things like that. Read that somewhere.

inanda

inanda thanks for the info. How often do they water with vinegar? Just curious, is a one time thing or monthly application? My soil pH is something like 7.5, that was a 2 year ago soil test from the extension office. Thanks.

Monthly application for vinegar. I use it on first of the month more or less. That way I know if I've used it or not. With lots of rain I would use vinegar on 1st and 15th of month. My Las and JIs(iris) get it every couple of weeks. inanda

Thanks for the follow-up, inanda, I'll try this.

OK, did anyone catch Rosemary and Thyme or PBS this past week (English murder whodunit)? They were trying to figure out what was wrong with the plants where they were working and offered this tidbit of info: overwatering leaches the magnesium from the soil. Their solution? Epsom Salts (and take the hose away from the lord of the mannor).