Do the terms HA and HHA have anything to do with WS?

Hi all --

In the Thompson-Morgan catalog, and probably others, they use the terms HA for hardy annual and HHA for half-hardy annual. Do these terms correspond with which annuals you can wintersow (HA) and which ones you can't (HHA)?

Sure would be easy to just look them up on their website!

Suzy

Both HA's and HHA's are good candidates.

Karen

Don't you think it would depend on what zone you are in? I wouldn't think HHA would do well in my zone 4. From what I understand, HA, perennials hardy for your zone and any plants that readily self-sow in your zone would be good.

I've been hearing some reference to late winter/spring sowing for more tender plants. Anyone have information about this?

Yes, it would depend on one's growing zone. Here in zone 7a, I sow my seeds for HA in mid to late March, (look for last frost date in your area), HHA in mid-April and tropicals in late April/early May.

The soil has to be sufficiently warmed up, which will happen faster in plastic containers. So, I say go for it! The seeds will germinate when they are ready.

Last year I did only perennials and they all did great. This year I was going to add annuals because they are so expensive here and not a wide variety, either.

I was going to start sowing them in early April but I am in zone 5b, so I take it that might be too early. Don't the containers act like mini-greenhouses? I thought if I left them covered it would protect them from frost. Maybe I'll sow some in early April and then more in late April and see what happens. I'm afraid if I wait too long they won't be blooming until August LOL.

I thought the whole point of winter sowing was to get them sprouted early? I know folks in 4b/5 that sow around Christmas...don't remember if they did annuals though, but I think so. I'm going back to look at www.wintersown.org

edited web address

This message was edited Sep 17, 2006 7:13 PM

Yeah, I thought WS was simulating self-seeding annuals whose seeds lasted the whole winter in the ground without being eaten by birds, washed away by rains, stored by squirrels, ad infinitum. Why not WS everything in late Dec, and the seeds will wait until the right time for them to germinate? That's MHO. (Never done it tho.)

xxxx, Carrie

If more tender plants are sown early in winter some problems might or might not occur. If seeds are large, like say moon vine, they might rot in all the moisture. Also, if the tender flowers are subjected to a short warm spell by mother nature they might germinate really early then freeze when the temp drops again.

I've only done this once but I'm echoing some of the experts - they generally seem to sow more tender stuff later, like spring.

Karen

Well, I think some seeds need to go thru the freeze, thaw cycle a few times to get going. Generally, I believe these are the seeds you would need to nick and/or soak before sowing under lights. These should be started in December or January. Other seeds, like zinnias, if they germanate too early will get killed by a heavy freeze. I wouldn't start those until March in my zone.

What I'm wondering is if I can start more tender plants before my last frost date and have them survive. Do you think impatients would make it if planted out (WS method) in April when my last frost date is May 15th? I suppose the only way to find out is to try it. It's all up to Mother Nature. Some years you might luck out and others, get nailed for your all your efforts. I remember a snow storm on Mother"s Day one year...

Beaker, do you know your real last frost date? The one that would only take in the last 5 years for consideration, not the one that takes in any weirdo weather you had in the last 150 years.

Let's say it's May 2. You plant impatiens and they are in a WS jug, is that right? Well, if frost is forecasted on May 1 or May 5 couldn't you pick up the jug and bring it inside the house for a night?

And say you had 15 of those jugs, each holding a different kind of flowers or plant...couldn't you bring in all 15 of them?

I think the biggest challenge (for me) is identifying the ones that could take a little frost (while in the jugs) and which ones can't. I'm hoping to find what HHS and HA MEAN TO ME. LOL! There has to be a way to use this information to my benefit if I can just figure it out (or somebody tells me!)

Suzy

Beaker, that was exactly what I was thinking only you expressed it much better. I'm going to do the same thing, just try it and see what happens. That's why I was thinking the mini-greenhouse effect of the jugs might protect the tender plants from frost.

Suzy, I don't know about bringing them indoors. Only because I know that while I have good intentions right now, when I look at all those containers in May and hear we might get frost, I probably won't want to lug them all inside LOL.

It's not advisable to bring wintersown jugs indoors as this may weaken their stems.

Personally, if I'm expecting a frost in my area, I just throw some old sheets, burlap, or plastic over my wintersown containers in the evening and remove the covering the next morning. That should protect them.

I used some large sterilite containers with holes drilled in bottom. (Got the suggestion for someone on GW). I used them just to corral the jugs together in winter with no lids on the sterilites. When we got a very late frost I put the sterilite lids (with holes drilled in them) on. Made for extra protection and worked great. It went down to the single digits very late in spring and I threw blankets over them for the night, too.

I believe Trudi advises not to bring WS plants into a heated house, but OK to put them in an enclosed unheated space like a garage. I did that before I got the sterilite boxes.

Karen

Let's talk sterilite. I was thinking of getting some of those to contain all my soda bottles, but I was thinking I should cut it down by half so that when the sun is out, they would get a proper amount of light. Do you think they will do just as well in a container that is not cut down? I like the idea of being able to throw a lid on for frost protection, but am woried about light. Not getting enough light may delay germination and cause leggy plants. Any thoughts on this?

My sterilites are clear and allow light to pass through. The lids are solid white and light doesn't get through those but they were rarely used- usually only overnight , and a good bit of light got through the sides then. One is a large underbed storage one that worked great for individual cups. In the picture I had the sterilites upside down, which made the top clear. Not sure of the date but I had it labeled "second day of spring". March, maybe. The big tan monstrosity at the top of picture is the top half of a BIG dog cage. Next is the underbed box.

Karen

This message was edited Sep 21, 2006 6:37 AM

This message was edited Sep 21, 2006 6:50 AM