And of course you know were I live, so is one in the mail to me?
There's a chill in the air- soon it will be suet time
Equilibrium
Dec 22, 2006
Oh sure, I seem to have your full name and address popping up all over in my e-mail these days. Seems as if every time I open my e-mail I get a forward of it. I've received it now at least 5x in the past two days in the form of the same forwarded e-mail. No problem.
I'm going to ask a question, and PLEASE no one yell at me -- I just plead ignorance. Why not put the whole fruitcake out for the birds? Slice it and put it in the suet feeder? Is it the sugar?
or another dumb question- when everybody here puts commercial suet blocks on sale for 69 cents, is it really that cheap or fun to make your own? I do see that you must go thru a lot of it with the amount you're showing i n the pictures. (BLOG is a good word for those!
and
Is bacon grease OK for birds?
Equilibrium
Dec 22, 2006
Quoting:
Hmmm, condensed reply- raccoons and squirrels. Aunt Irene's fruit cakes don't fit in the little suet feeders that I try to firmly attach so they don't get hauled off and they really don't slice all that well anyway. We're not exactly talking tender juicy morsels here. Aside from that, the fruit cakes are nothing but a big joke around here anyway and we figured we were being environmentally conscious by at least trying to recycle the fruits. I'm going to ask a question, and PLEASE no one yell at me -- I just plead ignorance. Why not put the whole fruitcake out for the birds? Slice it and put it in the suet feeder? Is it the sugar?
Quoting:
Probably not that cheap but it is fun and it's something we've been doing for a while at this time of year. Kids enjoy it and we enjoy our time together. When they go on sale like that at WalMart I definitely buy them and stock up. I use the store bought suet in my feeders and save the molds to re-use for when I make home made suet. The single greatest reason why I make my own is to eliminate the cheap fillers used in commercial suets that HOSPs like while ramming my suet chalk full of goodies that native birds prefer. when everybody here puts commercial suet blocks on sale for 69 cents, is it really that cheap or fun to make your own?
Blog- tee he- typo. I meant to type blob. Oops. Had to go back and take a look at what I typed to figure out what you were referring to. Those bags you see on the counter top are commercial 3-gallon ziplocks that you won't find at the grocery store. By the time I resorted to slopping the left overs in those bags, attention spans were waning and little clumps of suet were flying and getting stuck on the cabinet fronts as well as down the kids shirts every time I turned my back. I figured I had to end the suet "fun" before the kitchen began resembling an area that greased pigs had whizzed through.
Umm, I tried to read this whole thread, but truly I skimmed it. Please forgive me if I'm repeating something. I've been in school all semester and not able to keep up. Firstly, the reason you all don't like fruit cake is that you've never had a good one. The good ones come with a nice helping of RUM sauce. It is like butter cream frosting with rum in it. Honestly, the fruitcake is warmed up in the oven and is simply a conveyance for the sauce. You ought to try it sometime.
Secondly, salt in suet................I'd love to read the research on that. I find that sometimes (scientists included) assume that what is good for humans is also good for animals and birds. I'm not saying that salt is good for birds, just that I would love to know if any research has been done. It may well be good for them given the lack of fresh water available in the winter. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Someone that claims to be a wildlife biologist isn't necessarily up on the research. I'm just wondering if anyone is up to checking this out. Like I said, been in school all year, so I'm not up to it, but maybe someone else is.
Thirdly, putting whole fruitcakes out for the birds. It is probably not a bad idea, but will attract other animals including some undesirable non-native invasive birds like starlings.I also agree that it will likely attract a bunch of other scavengers like raccoons, and others. Just a thought.
Lastly, seeds in suet. Based on beak shape and size, my guess is that some birds that are unable to eat seeds with shells will eat smaller seeds that are shell-less like peanut hearts and shelled sunflower. If you really watch, they will discard what they won't eat and some ground feeder (like Cardinals) will probably get fed. Nature rarely wastes.
Just my two cents.
Von, you go ahead and have my piece of fruit cake. I insist!
Equilibrium
Jan 02, 2007
I'll set some of Aunt Irene's fruit cake aside for you too.
I don't know about birds and salt and I'm in the same position as you only instead of school, it's a new job so I won't have time to go looking. One thing though that I recall was an article by Cornell discussing toxicity of salt to pet birds. I recall it being toxic to pets birds but don't recall any of the specifics. I've simply steered clear of salt but never researched why. It made sense so I did. Anything I added to the suet was unsalted. Are you thinking this may be one of those force of habit type deals that may have no scientific fact to back it? Maybe an urban legend that salt is toxic to birds? Happens all the time so I wouldn't be at all surprised but... I do recall something written by Cornell.
Most everything I found was from the UK. There's a lot for pet birds, but these few for wild birds in your garden.
http://www.oldworldaviaries.com/text/miscellaneous/toxicoses.html
Quoting:
Signs of a mild salt toxicity (5-10 times requirement) will result in polydipsia, or increased water consumption and subsequent polyuria, or increased fluid (urine) in the droppings. Because excess salt is excreted via the kidneys, a bird with mild to moderate kidney dysfunction may consume toxic doses of salt readily. Deprivation of water alone may lead to salt toxicity because the kidneys are not proficiently perfused or bathed by fluids to remove the sodium and chloride.
http://www.rspbliverpool.org.uk/helpingfood.htm
Quoting:
Salt: Garden birds are practically unable to metabolise salt, which in high quantity is toxic, affecting the nervous system. Under normal circumstances in the wild, birds are unlikely to take harmful amounts of salt. Never put out salted food onto the bird table, and never add salt to bird baths to keep water ice-free in the winter.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:Zvs5W_PmgkwJ:www.gardenadvice.co.uk/guides/feedingwildbirds.pdf+salt+is+toxic+to+wild+birds&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=6&client=firefox-a
Quoting:
Anything containing artificially added salt such as salted or dry-roasted peanuts, cat
and dog food, crisps and salty snacks. Nuts unfit for human consumption as they can
be toxic–always choose a reputable dealer.
From Cornell, I found this
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/pfw/AboutBirdsandFeeding/BirdFoods.htm
and this from here
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/AllAboutBirds/attracting/feeding/pests_birds
Quoting:
If starlings are gobbling down your suet, offer it in a container open only at the bottom, requiring birds to feed hanging upside down. Woodpeckers, chickadees, and nuthatches do this naturally, but starlings cannot.
Lauren,
I put the suet out and the starlings destroy it in a day. Any advice?
Mr. Sir
Hi bigcityal,
As it appears I`m the only one here.
My Guess would be " Make some More"
But I suppose that`s no help at all.
If you look at the message by me right above Mr. Sir, it tells you what to do when starlings are eating your suet..... :o)
Equilibrium
Jan 02, 2007
Great detective work Terry! I thought I remembered reading something about salt.
Hi Al, I took the photo at this link a few months ago. I've seen flocks considerably larger than that in the area but I'm generally in my car driving and don't have my camera with me. That day, I had my camera with me.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/651790/
Estimates are that there are tens of thousands of them by me when I originally had guessed a couple thousand. They roosted on electrical wires just after Thanksgivivg and the sheer weight of thousands of them roosting on utility lines literally downed them knocking out power to residents for almost a day. Oddly enough, they don't weigh all that much but their combined weight was enough to do in the power lines. Our Public Health Dept was getting involved but they stopped recently. I hope they start back up again in spring but I don't know. I am at a loss for what you can do other than to hang your suet underneath a board. It would be better if the board had a 3" downward edge. I used to hang mine underneath a squirrel baffle however it wasn't expansive enought to deter them for long. Never underestimate the ability of a hungry bird to overcome its fears. Starlings don't generally like having to fly under anything to eat while your chickadees and cardinals and woodpeckers won't have a problem with a 2.5' x 2.5' board with the suet hanging directly underneath it. It may take them a day or so to figure it out but they will. I tried the containers mentioned by Terry. None of my birds were willing to go up and into the enclosure to get to the suet but... the squirrels did and wasted the suet as fast as I could put it out there. We go through a lot of suet over here.
Thanks Lauren,Terry
I don't have that many, but it is frustrating because they don't eat it all -they just destroy it by pecking through it all to get what they want. Which is the fat? they don't eat the regular birdseed at other feeders.
Do you Guys really feed fat to Wild Birds ?
Hey ginger, the quote if from the link below.......
http://www.gonegardening.com/xq/ASP/group_id.32/article_id.41/referer.GDRSDMKE65EM9GG777D6RTPDEBUJ9DC7/qx/gg_shop/article.htm
Quoting:
Fat
Fat is an extremely valuable food source to birds especially during cold weather and can be fed in many different ways. Raw fat from uncooked (unsalted) meat can be cut into strips and hung from a bird table or branches by string. Fat strained from cooked meat should be poured into a suitable receptacle and left to cool before feeding to birds. Putting some mixed birdseed into the fat will be a real treat.
Suet is a fat derivative of beef or lamb. It can be moulded and offered to birds in a plain state or made into a cake by adding seeds and cereals.
Tips and tricks
Half a coconut shell with a piece of string knotted throught the top first makes an ideal fat feeder.
We are taught to not even feed bread to Wild Birds.
I wasn`t questioning it, Just surprised.
You can't stop there ginger! You are taught not to feed bread, why? I'm curious.
Considering that many birds eat carrion, especially in winter, fat would be a normal part of their diet.
Bread on the other hand its too processed, IMHO.
I heard that feeding ducks, geese, etc white bread affects the quality of their egg shell (made the shell too thin & the egss were not viable) and that it was actually to be discouraged. I heard that from a manager at the apartment complex, that I was living at, back when. They had a pond and she was posting signs to that affect. Pure heresay but I believed her.............
Here's what I found out so far regarding bread....and I did not know :o)
Quoting:
Stale donuts, bread, or left over cooked corn are all food magnets for birds. Never put out fresh bread because it becomes paste in the bird’s crop and can cause all sorts of problems. White bread has no nutritional value, whole grain breads are better. Some people like to put out left over spaghetti thinking it will attract worm eating birds. I once put some macaroni and cheese out and the starlings were fighting over it within minutes!
MQN, I saw some links to ducks, but I didn't follow them. Now you've got me interested, so I'll go check them out and see what they say.......
Quoting:
You really shouldn't be feeding wild ducks, at the park for example. Feeding wild ducks causes poor nutrition, pollution,spread of disease, overcrowding, soft shelled unhatchable eggs, malformed young, unnatural behavior, delayed migration , and other problems.
and another says this
Quoting:
Bread is a big no-no
The most popular item that humans seem to love throwing wild ducks is bread that has gone stale. While both humans and duck have been known to enjoy a crusty French baguette, that does not make it appropriate nutrition for our winged friends. Bread and other processed foods are not part of a bird’s natural diet and may lead to malnutrition. In fact, it can be downright fatal, with many ducks choking on large pieces of bread. ”The notion that waterfowl cannot survive without human intervention is false. Ducks and geese have survived for thousands of years without handouts,” says the Audubon Society of Portland.
So there ya go!
Yeah! I am gullible, but not an idiot. It just made sense, to me.
Equilibrium
Jan 03, 2007
All of the above I was aware of but there are other issues feeding birds bread.
This gal sums up one of the issues-
http://www.bellaonline.com/ArticlesP/art19793.asp
Quoting:
Next issue that is significant to birders in colder zones would be summed up here-Feeding Bread to Birds - Bad or Good?
Many diets now encourage people to give up white bread, as it has little nutrient and a lot of sugar. Is it healthy to feed bread to birds?
Birds in nature take in nutrients from a variety of sources - insects, fish, grasses, seeds, plants, and more. They need the vitamins and minerals found in those items. If you instead feed a bird a diet of just 100% white bread, they are now getting little to no nutrients - and filling up with sugars.
This would be like feeding a toddler a diet of 100% sugar cookies. Sure, the toddler might like it, but they would soon have issues with malnutrition and, if fed enough, obesity.
Developing birds can have a problem called "angel wing" or "slipped wing". This is when the bones grow too quickly because of overfeeding, and stick out from the body. The bird isn't in pain, but they can't fly either. Depending on where the bird lives, this could be a serious problem.
So while it's fine to feed a few pieces of bread to your birds, do not make bread their entire diet. If you do so, you can contribute to serious problems in the bird's health.
http://www.nhoutdoors.com/birds.htm
Quoting:
Don't put out bread crumbs for the birds. Bread provides little nutrition. If a bird fills up on just bread on a cold winter's night, it may not survive til morning.
This is the last one with which I have familiarity and it is the one that concerns me the most-
http://www.tristatebird.org/breadisbad.htm
Quoting:
But bread is more than an empty-calorie snack; it can kill a bird directly, by damaging its digestive system. Most vulnerable is an organ, located at the base of a bird's throat, called the crop. Food is moistened here, and in doves (mourning doves, pigeons, turtle doves, fancy doves), the crop also produces a liquid that is fed exclusively to their babies during the first 3 days of life. Clumpy, sticky, or expandable substances can remain in the crop, causing it to become distended, infected, or impacted ("crop stasis"), which will kill a bird. These substances can contribute to potentially fatal intestinal blockages, too.
All in all, bread should not be fed to birds.
I go out gardening for one hour and I miss all this.
terryr, You asked a question then answered it for me.
Thanks for that.
Does it follow that if you ask moi a question about dinner.
Tonight dinner will be on the table when I come home from shopping ???
Thank you Equilibrium
And I said all that without moving my lips.
Ditto what I said at first. NO BREAD.
Equilibrium
Jan 03, 2007
That'll teach you for going outside to play in the dirt for an hour or so!
Has anyone else made any suet for their birds or am I the only suet maker out there this season? My freezer is rammed with suet! I thinkI've got more than enought to make it through winter ro spring.
I'm getting ready to make a batch tomorrow now that I bought some hanging holders today. I will use PB, lard, raisins, peanut hearts and maybe some grains from the pantry.
Equilibrium
Jan 03, 2007
Umm umm good! Better than Campbells. Just teasing with you because I know you are an accomplished cook. By the way, your mushroom soup recipe is now a staple around here. I increased the shrooms though because we like them and it freezes well so I can make a double batch and save some for a few weeks later. I love that recipe. Say, what kind of hanging holders did you buy?
Just the ordinary vinyl coated metal suet cages. I won't invest in better ones until I see what critters come along. No extra baffles here yet.
Thanks for the kudos on the soup!
This message was edited Jan 3, 2007 7:52 PM
Equilibrium
Jan 03, 2007
Your shroom soup recipe is better than the one I had that I misplaced from my Mom.
I use mesh onion and orange bags to hang suet. Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Hey ginger, you mentioned dinner, yet my table is empty! That isn't fair, and I'm hungry. No disrespect to the above mentioned soup or it's creator, but no fungi (fungus? ewwww) is touching my lips. Period. End of sentence. So anyway ginger, what is for supper??
Deep fried Calamaris.
And all fresh veges from the garden.
Finished of with home made macadamia Ice Cream.
Home grown macadamias as well.
Well alright then! I bet Equil is on her way........ :o)
I`ll keep a light on, on the porch.
Equilibrium
Jan 04, 2007
Oh my, a woman (that would be you ginger749) after my own heart who isn't all steak and potatoes!
I've been following the advice of the bird expert and been using Crisco. No suet making for me.
The nuthatches, red bellies and downy woodpeckers have been eating it. Haven't seen a pileated yet, but am waiting....
I've seen a pileated down here, in Orange, TX. Absolutely fascinating. HUGE. Tore a wood fence apart, and convinced me, at least, that birds ARE descended from dinosaurs. This guy was scary.
Terry, You are the woman!! Thanks for doing all that research. I've been gone for a few days and come back to all this research. I am grateful. Now, can you look up the connection between emotion and cognition? I have a small project due late spring and I need some articles!! ;o)
Great to know about the salt. I had heard that, but as Equil says, it could be urban legend. I just like to get to the bottom of these things. The funny thing about the white bread is the one bird that loves white bread (and french fries and donuts, etc.) is the HOSP. They seem to be doing fine. I swear they have 9 lives.
this is a great thread.
Saw these 2 on the way up the mountain this morning.
I won`t name them yet .
They will be the subject of my next Guessing Game.
