Blue Picotee - Mini-Bar Rose X

For those of you who remember the Messenger Saga, in a desperate attempt to save some genes from the deformed flowers, I crossed my Blue Picotee with the only other mg I had which was the Mini-Bar Rose. Only one took and it produced three seeds which I planted immediately upon harvesting and they are starting to blooming now.

The flower has the shape and barring of the Mini and the color and leaf color of the Picotee though colorwise it appears to have mixed a bit. I was kind of hoping for some varigated foliage, but no.

X

This message was edited Aug 24, 2006 8:03 AM

Here is a comparison;

X

X, you did good. That is a pretty dark blue you have there.
Janett

How cool is that! Wow congrats!!

Joseph

That is very pretty! I`ll bet if you pollinate the blue flower to self you will come out with lots of combinations as the hidden recessive genes come out in the second generation. I read that variegated leaves are recessive to solid green and pink is recessive to blue. So your cross makes sense in the way it came out. It appears to have inherited more intense color from one or both parents.

This is neat. I have a few I`m waiting on to bloom and will share some of my crosses as well.

I did a search and found many others have shared the crosses they did. It was good reading and interesting!

This is the 3rd bloom .. with the first two, the barring was barely noticeable. I was unable to get pictures because I had to get to work early and it was too dark. I was determined to get pictures of this one even though it made me late to work. Luckily my job is such that except for Tuesdays I can roll in here just about any time.

I'm tempted to hit the next bloom in waiting with some messenger ;-) .....NAAAAAAAAA LOL

X

nice Flower

Bet its hot where you are i spent a few weeks fishing there last summer in the santee cooper area hot and rainy LoL

X, It's a beautiful color.

Jackie

Thanks!

Phicks it's been very hot here .. in the upper 90's for weeks on end and very little rain. This has been the absolute worst year for my garden that I have ever had. The only plants that didn't seem to mind it was of course the Cannas... I used to fish all the time .. started when I was a wee babe according to my grandfather. About 15 years ago I was fishing the Santa Fe River near Ginnie Springs in North Central Florida I went to cast my line and the hook somehow got stuck in my mouth in the soft palate. Ever since then, I guess out of empathy for the fish, I can't bring myself to fish anymore.

X

Wow... how beautiful... I bought some Picotee seeds from a store in Boston and that's what they are blooming like... definitely not the picotee, but a lovely shade of blue... yours are even prettier though... congrats...
Brittany

X, that is a beautiful flower! I really like the grey-blue. These plants have some interesting potential!

Gardner2005 is correct - the next generation will yield many different plant types! As the red flower color, variegated leaves, miniature plant form, and star shaped flowers of the parents are recessive, they should show themselves again the next generation in various combinations. Should be interesting! The more seed that is saved and grown out, the better the odds become of finding a miniature plant with variegated leaves and grey-blue or pink star shaped flowers! It is never as "clean" as this though, as there are always additional modifying factors in play.

You've got a great potential project going here!

Arlan

Wow, almost navy blue. X, that is gorgeous!

That's really lovely X. I'm too new to start crossing anything except my fingers, waiting for seedlings to grow...LOL.

Thanks for sharing!

~Sunny

X that is absolutely beautiful... Congrats... One day I may be able to do so. LOL Ditto Im with Sunny crossing fingers alot her.

If you have any of those Blue Picotee to share I would be willing to do trade if I have anything you want or sasbe.
I love the pointy petals.

Thanks & Congrats again
Beck

Xeramtheum - could you post photos of the leaves of the plant with the blue flower for some interesting comparison...Thanks...

Ron

Sorry it took so long to get back to this thread.

Anyway, I do not have any good pictures of the leaves for the Mini-Bar. This is the best I could come up with.

The color seems to be toning down too though I think it might be the weather that is doing that, the nights are getting much cooler. First blossom, the nights were in the upper 70's.
This one the low 70's.

X

X - NIce leaf comparison/documentation...you may want to consider a side-by-side sepal comparison as well,since the sepals contain so much information about the plants...

here is the sepal comparison that Golgi-Gail did of some similar looking large blue flowered Japanese types

rear view> they are from the left: Berlin Blue,Akatsuki No Umi,Hatsu Arashi
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1731386
frontal view>they are from the left: Hatsu Arashi,Akatsuki No Umi, Berlin Blue
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=1681054

TTY,...

Ron

Here is a picture of the seed pod of the cross compared to the parents. The base looks more like the BP .. the rest of it like the MBR.

Ron, I can't find a clear sepal pic with flower of the minibar. Does the seed pod count?

X

This message was edited Sep 7, 2006 7:22 PM

X,

It is interesting how the seed pod of the cross has the curved sepals of the MBR. Showing the I. hederacea influence?

I've enjoyed this saga! Thanks - Arlan

The only bits of the Blue Picotee is the color. Everything else says Mini-bar. Can't wait for the next generation!

X

X - Yes,the sepals on the seedpods are (still) valueable as the characteristics of the different types can be seen in the side-by-side comparison here
http://pics.davesgarden.com/pics/Xeramtheum_1157671274_126.jpg

The Minibar Rose has sepals with a wider base,wider upper sepals,more hair and a sharper 'cut' arising from the wider base...

The Blue Picotee has the characteristic elongated sepals without alot of outward spreading, a more linear overall shape and with little hair in comparison..

The cross has characteristics that are intermediate between the two parents in size and hair,although the outward spreading is difinitely closer to the Minibar Rose ala the Ipomoea hederacea influence...

I do notice that the lower secondary bracts on the Minibar Rose still have more of an initial horizontal outward curve,while the small secondary bracts on the cross seem to be thiner and without any noticeable outward curving >more like the secondary bracts of Ipomoea nil...

Excellent side-by-side comparison...

TTY,...

Ron

So what's the trick for producing a stable cross?

X

X, - Multiple selfed generations of very specific selection after the original cross.

The first real selection (and most critical) comes into play with the second filial (F2) generation which segregates the various combinations of traits. If the desired combination of traits is not found in this F2 generation, then either more seed of the original cross (F1) should be grown out (if the desired combination is theoretically possible), or different parents for the F1 generation should be selected. Subsequent selfed generations should theoretically have decreasing variability.

As hobbyists, the fun thing is that sometimes you can select multiple "desireable or interesting" lines to perpetuate from the great variety found in the F2 generation.

This is simplified, but basically how it should work.

Arlan

Ditto(!)...Arlan,now you(!) can do all the explaining...I'm off the 'hook'...(!)...YIPPEE(!)..there is>(!) a 'God'...

You cracketh me up, Ron of Netcong! LOL

Oh dear .. have we been abusing you Ron?

X

Ron, nobody is letting you off the hook that easy!!!

I do appreciate the validation though!! Thanks. Every once in a while I'll have something to contribute....instead of asking questions!

Arlan