question about tree spacing

Hello all. I am a new DGer and also new to forums. Equilibrium was kind enough to help me with a question over at Indigenous plants and said I should post some questions over here.
So one thing I've been wondering about is how tightly I can plant trees and shrubs. Plant tags will give a distance- say 30 feet. But in nature trees are not evenly spaced. Even large trees are often close together with shrubs, vines and smaller trees in between. In my yard we recently smothered an area of lawn about 80'x10'-15'. How much can I cram into this area? So far I have 2 viburnum dentatum, 2 fothergilla, 2 itea Merlot and 6 red twig dogwoods. I would like to add some small to medium trees. What would you advise?

Here is one area where you can break all the rules. The distances tags and books state is very relative. Many books and tags will give a mature size of a tree or shrub, while others give the size a tree or shrub will be in ten years. When they list planting distances, they are basically saying this is the distance apart you should plant things if you don't want them touching other things. This is fine for maybe the most static of arboretums, or an orchard, but it doesn't make for a very natural looking yard.

Certainly you can cheat. You can plant things really close if you want a dense, almost thicket-like look, or moderately close to simulate something approximating a pleasing, attractive garden. I've even planted two or more trees or shrubs in the same planting hole when I wanted to promote pollination for the production of fruit, but did not want to commit two spots in the garden for one species of plant. Viburnums are a good example of this because they always fruit better (or at all) when two or more non-clonal plants are within insect-flying distances from each other. I've done this with pawpaws too.

Culturally, there is nothing wrong with squeezing things together. Sure, the plants will compete, and perhaps their rates of growth will be retarded somewhat, but as long as water, fertility, and light requirements are met, they should grow. Good soil preparation before planting (not amending planting holes, but building goo, rich beds) will more than make up for the battle for root zone suppremacy that will surely take place below ground.

Sometimes, you will find that plants in competition with each other will grow differently. For instance, grow a Shasta viburnum by itself in full-sun, and it is a wide, dense shrub. Grow it in competition with other shrubs or trees and it stretches and leans and grows much more lithesome. Either way, it is a beautiful plant, but, as you know, beauty is in the eye of the bewildered. And some like it hot.

Yes! I am on pain medication. Sciatica and lower back. MRI tomorrow. Could too much gardening cause back issues? Hmmm. Anyway, hoped the above information is relatively clear and helpful.

Scott

Scott, Sorry to hear about a possible bout with sciatica troubles - it can bring you to your knees. My wonderful, caring friends say that it is another power bringing me to my knees, since I am a stubborn old gardener. My wife of 47 years simply suggests that I get a potting bench/table. I didn't have this problem until a year ago after I gave gardening (obsessively) to me as a gift. My greatest fear is that nerve will grab the back of my legs when I'm in a public place and I will embarrass myself. It only happens on random occasions, but that's what is a bit scary. I still love gardening, and after ten days on the Gulf, it just doesn't matter. I'm not pushing drugs, but Aleve helps. I wish you well.

Hey Decrepit -- sounds like you're beginning to earn your name! I guess we'll have to come up with some other nickname for you so we don't jinx you anymore. Sorry bud --
Guy S.

Scott, thank you. I want so many different trees and my lot is small. Sorry to hear about your back. I too suffer from sciatica and degenerative discs. At least I used to. I'm seeing a wonderful chiropractor that finally gave me some relief. I had done all the conventional stuff- physical therapy, traction, shots. Then one day out of desparation I decided to try chiro. My insurance won't pay you see, so I never tried it. They will pay thousands for MRIs and tests but no chiro. I can garden again! Anyway that is just my experience, not a commercial for chiro:-)

I have a viburnum question. Do I need to start a new thread or is it permissable to ask here? I am new to forums. Need to learn the ropes.

chanceofrain:

Scott's a good guy; don't let the fact that he's from OH and a whiner put you off.

I agree with everything he wrote, and would add:

With 80' x 15', I'd go for about 8-10 small trees (average 10' apart randomized). At about 5' average spacing, you could get around 40 shrubs in there with them. Realize this will end up a solid mass of plants if you do no management whatsoever, but you'll have a heck of a wildlife bonanza! One can always edit.

As for your last question: not here; not even a new thread. You want a whole new FORUM for that important a question.

VV, lol, I asked it over at Indigenous Plants. It is in my answer to your post. I am a little confused about the cross polination issue too. I read your posting about the issue, I need to read it again. I would love to have several types but I am also concerned about size. Are there some that are less than 10'x10' or can I prune them if they get too big? Or would that be a sin?