American Persimmon

I found one of these trees that had been blown over and the fruit on it was half ripened. Will the seed in the fruit be mature this early? I would like to start some seedlings since this was a local tree. I don't know how long it had been blown over but the leaves were still green.

Here's a picture. My dog just had to get her face in there.

I would expect that the seed is ripe. Very often seed ripens before the fruit does. At any rate, It certainly wouldn't hurt to give them a try. Sow them in pots and leave them outdoors or in an unheated structure over winter.

Scott

In your zone, you could grow Japanese Persimmon, which has bigger, more colorful fruit. But maybe you would rather have a native Diospyros...?

I would grow them more for wildlife than for myself, also for some diversity. I don't like the taste of persimmon no matter what kind they are. Should I put the whole fruits in the fridge until fall? They should be mushy by then.

Just make sure no one eats the fruits from the native persimmon until after they've been touched by frost or it will turn your mouth inside out. LOL

Is there any way you can leave some on the tree, even if it's doomed? It might be able to pump some juice into them for a while if some of the roots are still in the ground, and every day of additional ripening would help. If not, open one and see if the seeds have darkened yet. If so, you're probably OK, but I would still leave the other fruits intact for a while.

Guy S.

The tree is still loaded with them. I only got that one small branch. I believe you are right about the roots though, it seems to still be living perfectly fine even though it's on the ground.

This message was edited Aug 21, 2006 6:47 PM

The frost/ripeness factor does not necessarily hold for all American persimmons. I have one that I gather from each year that begins dropping ripe, honey-sweet fruits around 20 Sept, and they're almost always long gone before we ever get a frost.
Also had one local tree that began dropping ripe fruit 1 Sept - unfortunately, I never got a clone of it grafted before it succumbed to some malady.

I'm with Guy - I'd keep an eye on it, and see if it doesn't go ahead and finish ripening; the seeds *might* be viable, but if they can get another month of maturing, you'll have a better shot at germinating them next spring.
Keep 'em cool and moist over the winter, and you should get close to 100% germination rate.

Do you guys know anything about quince fruit? There's a huge ornamental hedge on campus (where I work) that is bearing fruit on several of the shrubs. I'm tempted to pick them and make jelly. How does one know when quince is ripe?

I cut one of them open and the seeds were a greenish/yellow color, although they were hard. I'll try to go back in a couple more weeks and gather more.

FW:

A couple glances at texts mention Chaenomeles ripening in October. You might watch the fruit, see when wildlife starts working on them, and then avoid getting hung up in the spines as you wrestle for the remainder.

Thanks, VV. Thanks also for the reminder to use the Latin name. I am trying to learn to think Latin, but sometimes I forget.

There'll be a pop quiz on Friday.

Think Latin and you'll never go back.

I found another one of these trees today on a roadside. All of the leaves had already fallen but it was still loaded with fruit. I shook the tree and lots of them came raining down. I now have about twenty big dark colored seeds. I am trying to decide if it is best to plant them in the ground now, or overwinter them in pots. How fast do the taproots grow after germination?

I hope you sampled some tasty fruit as well! I had three delicious persimmons today myself.

From Dirr and Heuser: "Collect fruits and allow to soften in plastic bags, strain pulp, remove woody calyx and save seeds. Allow seed to dry and store in sealed containers under refrigeration. Seed approximates 90% plus soundness. Seed should be fall planted or given 2-3 mos. cold stratification."

If growing in pots, I wouldn't be too concerned with taproots. In the ground that might be another issued. Usually, however, the initial root is the taproot.

Scott

I think I will go ahead and put them in the ground and put some little flags up to remind me where they are. I just didn't know if there were rodents or something that could sniff them out and try to eat them. Strange things like that have happened.

I actually did eat a few of the softest ones and they were pretty good. My dog liked them too, even though she made a mess with it.

Scott. ... I was given some of the oriental Fugi. I wanted the seed to play around with. The fruits I received had been stored in big bags in a shed. With reading your help up above , it said to put in plastic bag to soften. I have mine in plastic bag but they are in the fridge. I have had them there for several weeks now and they don't feel like they getting any softer. Still feel like a rock. Somebody had told me to put them in the fridge. Should I just have left them on the counter in a bag?

Also, do you happen to know, will I get a Fugi from the seed?

Starlight,

To soften, I would take them out of the fridge. I apologize, however, what are Fugi?

Scott

Sorry Scott. I should have explained better. I have a variety of the oriental persimmons, called Fugi. I actually like the taste of them better than the American. They seem more firmer and can be eaten before a frost. Most people eat fruit and toss the seeds in the trash. When the seeds are coming fresh off the trees, I try and get some and see if I can get any of them to germinate.

It may be a crazy way to think, but you never know what type of genetics will pop up in seeds and the seedlings. It may seem a wasted passion to some, but I always think that just maybe somewhere along the way, a better tree or one that more disease and pest resistant will come along at some point, but we will never know if the seeds are never given a chance to try and germinate.

If I knew the fruit wouldn't rot, I would send ya one to try.

Some of the ones that I got weren't exactly mushy. I was still able to pry them apart with my fingers though and get the seeds out. The seeds should be mature as long as the fruit is deep orange color.

OK, I've held my pulp long enough.

Take a gander at these edible berries...

LOL!!!! How adorable. Looks like breakfast to me. Is yours an American, Viburnum? Love the drupe shape to yours. I am learning something, because I didn't know these fruits grew up in such zones. I always thought they were more of a tropical thing.

I can't claim ownership of any more than the photo.

Those persimmons are growing in Winchester, TN with winter polyhouse protection. They are Asian (from Japan, I think), and certainly wouldn't be hardy for central KY.

They are adorable, though.

Those look like little orange eggplant fruit.

VV,
That's Don Shadow, ain't it?!
Man, you had me hoping that was a D.kaki variety that might be hardy here, but I'm not putting up a greenhouse just to grow one.

Here's a photo of my little Rosseyanka persimmon - it's a hybrid of D.virginianaXD.kaki, from the Russian breeding program at the Nikitsky Gardens at Yalta. 8 ft tree, set and is maturing about eighty-five 2.5-3" fruits this year; well it was, until the deer 'discovered' it this past weekend and ate every one they could reach, leaving me about 15 fruits.

Some of the kaki persimmons are hardy & productive here in zone 6. Great Wall, Saijo, Sheng, and Hokkaido are proven producers; I've also got a number of others, like Hana Fuyu, Jiro, Ichi-Ki-Kei-Jiro, etc. that I'm trying, but only time will tell as to whether or not they'll be winter-hardy or able to mature fruits here.

How long have you been growing all of those D. kaki(I find the term "Asian Persimmon" to be a little misleading since there are about 6 species of hardy Asian Persimmons) varieties Lucky? I've got a Ichi Ki Kei Jiro that's been growing fine outdoors for 3 winters now. I also have a couple of other Asian species doing fine, but no fruit yet.

I wonder what the mature size of that hybrid will be? Like almost every other fruit and nut tree, the Asian species are usually shorter and bushier.

I don't know how big the hybrids will get. My two hybrids - Rosseyanka and Keener(reputed to be a hybrid bred by Luther Burbank, but this is disputed by some) are both less than 8 ft tall, but they're growing in really thin, poor soil(actually, I had to bust planting holes in weathered sandstone bedrock I encountered about 2 inches down, when I planted the seedling rootstocks they're grafted onto.)

Several years ago, I grafted a number of D.kaki selections low - 1ft or less above ground level - on D.virginiana seedlings. All froze out. I had, however, high-worked a piece of 'Great Wall' about 6-7 ft up in a vigorous sprout from a seedling persimmon I'd bush-hogged over a year or two previously. It has grown well, with no winter damage, and has fruited this year and last.
I have re-grafted a number of D.kaki selections since then, but try to put them at least 3-4 ft above ground level. No fruit yet, but no winter-kill, either.
Some have really good red or fluorescent orange fall leaf color.

I got my mitts on some 'Wabash' D.virginiana scionwood this spring, and it does, as reputed, have good red-purple fall color. I've moved one of the grafts to my front yard. Guy S. has a male seedling selection that consistently has good purple fall color - guess I need to wrangle some scions of that one from him and plant it nearby to provide pollen for production of seedlings with greater(?) likelihood of having good fall coloer.