Re-using a above ground pool filter and pump?...help please!

Hi this is my first post here...I have been searching through the forums and looking for what I am wondering about and don't see it in a topic...I also have been reading many opinions on this on other Koi discussion forums and some pool places...I have an old pond I built years ago...10 feet wide X 20 feet long X about 4 feet deep...I am enlarging it to 25 feet long/due to needing to replace the liner because of a leak somewhere with a newer waterfall feature about 2-3 feet high at one side/end of the pond...it's oval basically in shape...here's the question...I have an old Hayward high rate sand pool filter with a 3/4 horsepower motor...all spec's below...why is it some people say you CAN use this with the sand as long as you backwash it religiously every 3-5 days and other's say NO WAY!...because of the bacteria sludge build up it will form...I am SO stressed over trying to figure out the pro's and con's of it...even Hayward as you'll see below says this filter and pump can be used for pond/aquarium applications...also...I am thinking of retrofitting my old bottom pool drain to lay on top of the liner/held down under a milk crate with a rock piling around it for less possibility of sucking up and animal... at the oppsite end of the waterfall for good flow pattern and fltering...I have many frogs...tadpoles...little snails and the occasional small turtles that come up from the creek behind my yard...and many fishes born in the pond....so I am concerned about the suction factor too...right now I have been running this pond with a medium size recirculating pump that goes through a giant filter I built years ago from a huge rectangular green storage container and bio balls and filter pads/with a few lava rocks thrown in for good measure!...it's pretty much all natural and does well...any opinions or knowledge on this would be GREATLY appreciated...thanks:)

Oh!...one more thing...I found this quote below on another Koi discussion site I stumbled across in researching...does anyone have one of these flters?...this Aquabead type?...they're SO EXPENSIVE!...I just can't afford one...I surely wish I could!...but honestly...why can't you really change the sand out of lets say a good quality Hayward type filter and use it the same way as one of these fancy versions of the same type of filter tank as this Hayward one I am speaking of here?...I have seen alot of snobbish talk on these other fancy Koi sites regarding filter discussion to tell you the truth...

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Here're my old Hayward spec's and the Smith brand pump down below it...

Applications-
Above-ground/on-ground pools
Small in-ground pools
Aquariums (salt or fresh water)
Ponds

Features-
Durable, corrosion-proof filter tank molded of color-fast material for long-lasting, all-weather performance
7-position PermaGlass XL™ Vari-Flo valve provides maximum flow at lower pressure drop.
Flange clamp design allows 360 degree rotation for easy installation
Integral top diffuser ensures even distribution of water over the entire sand bed for maximum use of the filtration area
Precision engineered umbrella-fold self cleaning laterals for balanced flow and backwashing, plus easy serviceability
Large pressure sand/water drain for rapid winterizing

Model # S180T
Effective Filtration rate 1.75 ft2
Design flow rate 35 GPM
8 hours -16,800
10 hours -21,000

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Smith 3/4 horsepower/energy efficient motor
volts-115 RPM- 3450 amps-11.25

I am not a know it all, and I do respect your thoughts. I think it would work, however I don't believe the pump is enough for the amount of water, unless you have a lot of pond cover. Lilies, lettuce, hyacinths and such. All of those will also help the filtering process, by digesting what the bacteria in your bio filter dosen't. You may still have some algae buildup.
I use a quite a bit of barley straw, in my falls filter, to help correct that. As far as the suction, as long as you have a filter between the fish and the suction end of the pump I really don.t know of a real problem.
I am useing a torpedo type, 7500 gph Cal pump, To operate my water fall. I have a home made strainer that takes water from all levels of my pond. I have lava rock for the water to pass through, along with two layers of filter material then a layer of barley straw then more lava rock. I clean this twice a year. I also have a 4000 gph pump drawing through a skimmer . and is pumped up to another smaller pond, then flows back to the first pond. I have been useing a furnace filter that looks like plastic woven mesh that comes in a universal size it is about an inch thick and comes in 20"x25" sheets. These are under $4.00 each, I clean them 2 to 4 times a week. They wash easily and I reuse them over and over. and at $3. something, I can keep extra on hand. so if the algae gets ahead of me- I can use two in my skimmer and clean them a little more offten. I get these sheets of filter material from our local bomgaars store it is a farm & home supply store. They are made by Flanders...PrecisionAire.
I don't think there is a 100% algae free pond when the weather is so changeable, and with all this heat especially.
Although with the addition of a good UV filter is a big help.
I bought a small inline one with its own filters, that needed constant cleaning. It was such a hassel that I don't use it anymore, However if I could find room in my budget I would have one as long as the only maintenance was an infrequent changeing of the UV bulbs. Guess what I'm saying is I would try it. and then if I found a part of the system wasn't good enough, IMPROVE it. One pic of my falls, and my give or take 3000 gal pond.

Pool pumps are simply not made to run 24/7. They use way too much electricity, the money you save now will be lost quickly in your electrical bill. You would be way better off putting in an efficient pond pump now than having to go through the trouble of redoing it all later,

Sand filter with sand in it.........my DH has to tried everything, and let me tell we tried this, and with a 3/4 HP pool pump no less and the exact same sand filter you have! For beginners, the amount of flow through the filter is not NEARLY enough to filter the size pond you have. Secondly, sand was a disaster, backflush every 3-4 days, what a joke, try 3-4 times a DAY!!! Then we tried gravel, nope, no way, pond water is not pool water. It's that simple, pond water is dirty, pool water is basically clean. The pressure builds way too quickly to try to filter like you would a pool because there is so much more stuff to filter out. It's hard on the pump and it doesn't do your pond any favors.

Sorry if this sounds extreme, but there's no sense in you setting yourself up for failure if you don't have to.

I have not used a bead filter and will not comment on them. We have made our own filters out of 55 gallon barrels using sequence pumps, up through mechanical filtration, then trickle over biological- 2 sets. When our waterfalls are done we'll add a plce to add quilt batting to polish the water.

BTW You can get a sequence pump with 4200 gph that only uses 1.6 amps, you're talking about using 11.25.

azreno, you are absolutely correct. Pool equipment, no matter the quality, is POOL equipment, not pond stuff. Ponds got stuff in em, pools dont (usually). I havn't used a bead filter either, but a neighbor with a lot fatter wallet than mine does. They are excellent for high filtration. Also azreno I admire your ingenuity in manufacturing your own equipment. We are not that clever here. I have a Savio system(falls filter and skimmer). I love it. For my small 2000 gal pond with eight koi it does a very good job and is easy to maintain. This is the fifth year it has been in service with no problems at all. (You can sequence Savio.)

Thanks Snapple, but it was necessity, really. We have a large pond (approx 7k gal) and to buy filters for it was going to cost a fortune (slim wallets here, too), hence DH exploring all possible avenues LOL trust me....all possible avenues. We were pretty experienced with aquariums and understood quite a bit about filtration already. With a solid understanding of what we needed, we simply applied it on a much larger scale. What a relief (for us and the fish)when the filters were done!

Susana,

I have a friend who uses that exact filter and pump for her pond and it works well BUT her pond is only about a thousand gallons and she keeps the fish population under strict control. She said she would never have koi in that pond because it would muck up the filter too quickly.

Look around at pumps more than you have. A pool pump uses a ton of electricity and a pond pump can usually save its cost in less than one season due to far less electricity useage. I found a 4500 gallon per hour pump locally for about $150 and made my own biological filter out of a large plastic tank I got off Freecycle and that plastic shipping tape that they strap around boxes that has the knobs on it/ I stuffed that tank full of the tape and every few weeks we turn things off and move the tape around as vigorously as we can and then drain most of the water out of that tank to clean things then refill the tank with fresh water and turn the pump back on. This has worked well for us.

I have a friend who spent the bucks and got a bead filter. They absolutely love it so we are saving up for one in the future. Our pond system in total with two streams and all is about 6000 gallons and we keep two pumps running all the time. We will be expanding it next spring we hope and we will add about two thousand gallons more of biological filtration along with about four thousand gallons more of pond.

Good luck and keep us posted on what you decided to do. If you want more info let me know and I will try to convey some more for you.

Rand,
Be very very careful about using furnace filters. My advice to you is not to use them at all. Some members of the water garden society I belong to used them last year and they did fine with them but the next month one of them bought new filters and it seems those were treated for dust mites or something and they lost thousands of dollars worth of fish. Scary enough to me that I will pay the bucks for pond filtration batting instead of trying to get by cheaply. The pond batting is hand washable so turns out to be inexpensive in the long run.

The cheap way to do things isn't always the cheap way in the long run. I hate to not say something if I know from personal experience or from others experience that it isn't right . Everything in ponding is trial and error as what works for one and their water and siteing may not work for another at all for some other reason.

Happy Ponding,
Ponditis (Lani)

Thanks for the warning on furnace filters. I am not using the ones that have any paper or spun fiberglass. Those are the ones that may or may not be treated and some are said to be electrostatic. The ones that are the washable plastic stuff made to be washed over and over, are the ones I have been useing. Been using them for three years. and they hold together better than the fiber filter that nursery pro sends with their skimmer filter, and at a fraction of the cost.
My pond "round figure" 3000 gal at most times has about 60 very prolific Koi and they spawn about 3-4 times per year.
I have a hatching tub, floating in the pond. where I place the water lettuce in when they are full of eggs, I have been giving away many little ones to friends. Now on the pump I do appolgize. A pool pump does use more juice, and the pump I was refering to was not big enough for the job they wanted to use it for. But it would work till they could afford to get the right pump. The amp draw would be greater very true. My pump for the waterfall, 7500 gph draws like 3 - 3.5 amps. I have a smaller pump to operate the skimmer filter. which then goes to another pond before flowing back to the lower pond. The only fish kill I have come close to, was having a kiwi vine too close to the pond and letting some of the vines droop down into the water, in the upper pond. One morning I found 5 big Koi floating. I used "well water" a hose running slow, and took turns flushing their gills with fresh water. they would try to swim but would give up very soon I kept repeating this proceedure till all but one survived. I then tested the water all levels were within range. Then noticed the kiwi vine so looked up the toxic properties of kiwi. I haven't dug it up yet but it is going. I just make sure that none of it gets into the pond. I have also heard that a honeysuckle will do about the same thing. The kiwi is in the way of a stream bed I plan to put in anyway. Along with the stream I want a natural bio filter system. There I will have lotus, now I realize lotus need fertilizer, I think the fish fertilizer will be enough, and the lotus should use all that gets in there.

Good point Ponditis about the furnace filters being treated for mites. Most stuff you use for human use, such as swimming pool liners, water bed bags and furnace filters as you mention, are treated with something to resist bacteria, molds and algae to make them sanitary for human use. Try to convert them for pond fish use and you risk toxicity. In addition with water bed bags used as pond liners, they have very limited UV resistance. What may seem like a frugal good idea at the time can come back to cost you a lot more later.

Hi again...WOW!...thanks for all the input and GREAT suggestions you all gave me...right now I am baffled also over if I should buy one of those expensive Biological Waterfall Filter 48" Spillway's made by Atlantic I believe OR just build the waterfall all natural with rocks and a sunken type pit in the liner and then building up under the rocks and all the way to the top under the rocks with the liner...but I am figuring there will be leaks somehow...my old waterfall I had built way back in '84 and we had to small New Jersey earthquakes back then and of course it got stress fractures and I patched it SO many times over the years and there were ALWAYS small leaks here and there...even with the liner under it as a safety precaution I never got the right water flow out of it...what would any of you recommend as far as me buying a new submersible pump for the size of my newer pond and a match up idea for constructing the waterfall before I make a mistake and buy something I really don't need like that spillway which is on ebay for $365.00 plus shipping right now...and would you all recommend two pumps running?...one for the waterfall and one for just general extra safety precaution in case one conks out!...you are ALL so smart here and I guess we pretty much all have good ideas for figuring these problems out...it's really nice and helpful here from all the posts I have read...thanks!:)

Even though I'm getting steped on here. I would say yes, do go with a biological falls filter box. They usually have an area in the bottom for bio balls or rock then they usually have a little ledge to hold PVC tubes that support filter material then more pea gravel or some other media. that will hold down the filters. I have been sandwiching barley straw in a bag between the filter media an the bags of rock . I used a filter box made of poly instead of fiberglass due to the cost.. My water falls consists of cement blocks with used styrofoam roofing insulation stacked on top of that, to make the layers for the steps in the falls. Then put down the linner material. The falls filter is setting on the styrofoam. the rocks are just there to cover everything else and to help form the sides of the water way, down the falls. I usually only have to clean that filter once in the summer and then again in the fall. I don't run the falls in the winter as that chills the water even more. I just have the small pump keeping the skimmer running without a filter, keeps both ponds sufficiently aireated and keeps two holes open all winter. Then I don't have to use a lot of electricity to run any heaters. Koi are after all a cold water fish.

Having a Savio system in place and running well for 5 years I can see how it can be duplicated inexpensively with some ingenuity and a little hard work. The filter falls is basically a large plastic barrel with a water input, a lip for waterfall, and in my situation, a bottom drain with a ball valve to an underground sump. That bottom drain is priceless for cleaning. (It also waters a weeping larch that looks like it is on steroids from fish poo water.) The filter mat is available on a roll lots cheaper than buying the pre cut stuff. I use two mats a season. The media that holds the bacteria is very similar to plastic package strapping. Look at your situation and decide which commercial system would be best and then see what you put together in a similar fashion. Think about maintenance too. How easy will it be to clean? I wouldn't want anything that you can't clean easily. I am sure you found that out with your previous experience. Earthquake!? Oh my. The more flexible the arrangement the better would be a guess. As for pumps, I have had one pump failure. At midnight for crying out loud. A toad somehow worked its way into the impeller. We completely redid the fittings so that now you can put the pump in and out with a simple twist to unscrew the pump from the water line. The fittings also unscrew from the pump and the fittings can be put on a new pump in a matter of minutes - In less time than it takes to saw out a dead toad from an impeller in the dark anyway. We keep a spare pump handy. Pump failures don't seem to be a problem though if you maintain it properly. We will never understand just how a toad got past the prefilter into the impeller. Sounds like you are doing plenty of pre-installation homework that will pay off in the long run. Besides esthetics, consider water flow, waterfall head and gallons, the maintenance routine and how easily could you repair it if you had to. Above all, please post pics as you go along. We all learn from each other.

Snapple; You are right about makeing it easyer to clean.
I used 2" pvc pipe from the pump, to the falls filter. put in a check valve so the water won't flow back to the pond. then a shutoff valve that I can open and run to the garden for cleaning the falls filter. Think I get the sweetest darn sweet taders that way. Had a couple last year that weighed around 4lb.

Good pic randbponder, and nice plumbing job! The check valve idea is terrific.

Mary

The easier the pond and waterfall box and skimmer are to clean the more enjoyment you will get from your pond. I have a savio skimmer and put a float valve in it so the water stays at a certain optimal level in the pond and I love the ease of cleaning that savio filter box. We plumbed the skimmer into one pump and the bottom drain into another pump. Both pump into the main bio filter which is a 265 gallon tank that used to hold molasses and is now full of that package strapping tape crammed in there tight enough it is a little hard to wiggle it. That strapping tape is bounced around every week and the tank is partly drained. The water comes out of that tank and into the waterfall bio pond a 600 gallon tank that used to be used for ammonia fertilizer that has the top cut off of it and we put some gravel in the bottom of it for the biological filtration and water lilies on the side along with water hyacynth and water lettuce to complete the bio filtration there. I have four pipes that come out of that tank and drop down a rock embankment that covers the side of the tank and the water drops into a small pond below where it can go either of two directions down short streams full of rock and gravel and plants such as water iris and cattails and watercress and over a waterfall and into the pond below. ( too many ands but I am not going to type this again. lol)

My pond after the spring flush of algae that always happens is very clear water and the fish do great in it. It is four and a half feet deep although we planned for over 5 feet but we hit the water table so had to quit digging.

The only rocks we have in the system are in the streams and the bio filter tank.

I would think that someone handy could make their own waterfalls bio filter and skimmer too. We made our own bottom drain which has worked well for us and if someone wants to know how we made it then let me know and I will post it here.

I hope this is clear enough and if not I will try to explain it further.

Lani

Hey randb, I want to add a check valve to my setup, where's a good place to get one?

I forgot to add that we also have check valves on our system and got them at a local farm supply store but I have seen them at plumbing stores too.

We have a valve on either side of our pumps so we can turn the water off any way we need it turned off. It saves on having to reprime the pump in some cases of failure that we have seen happen on other peoples ponds. Just remember that every time you put in a new valve or connection that you do decrease your gallons per hour output of your pump slightly.

So I should be able to find them at Home Depot?

Azreno;
Home depot, Menards, Lowes, nearly any farm & home store. The check valve I used is just coupled to the pipe with rubber sleaves, in case I would have to take it apart. they also have the kind that you glue right in line. but then if you would need to replace the check valve you would be faced with the headache, sawing the pipe.
The check valve, distance & the falls filter are the only restrictions. All plumbing pvc pipe and connections and check valve are 2" . The Valve to drain the falls for flushing the falls filter is inch & a half. When cleaning the falls up filter, I lay out the hose to my garden. Only draw back is, I do have to take the bags of rock and straw and the filter material, to get all the sludge out. I wash all the bags, and filter material with just the water hose. I can also use the shut off valve to change out some of the water if the ammonia would get a little too high.
That also goes to the garden.
I don't have a float valve to keep water level, up at all times. Although that would be a great addition. But I don't mind turning on the hydrant and let it fill while feeding my pets.

Oh boy, randbponder, that is good advice to put everything together with an eye out for maybe having to take it apart or get to it for a fix or a cleaning. If you can unclip it, unscrew it, unhook it, turn it off or on, or do anything else without tearing a bunch of stuff apart you are ahead of the game. Been there a couple of times. Also, seldom is anything is ever too big. When in doubt, size it up.

Rubber sleeves, nice idea randb! Thanks!

I guess " Snapple" that some things stick with a way of thinking. I'm retired now but 40+ years of mechanic work,you get used to tearing down and puting together. And you wonder why some engineer got paid for some of their idea's.
I could go on an on bout that. Maybe I should write a joke book (*~*) You designed a WHAT?????? HAaaa Hhhaaa. haa Ohoooo wipe my tears !!!
Oh we are now getting some very much needed rain this morning. Looks like it could last a while.
When we were over in your country near Marion, a couple weeks ago. they would get a little rain almost every other early morning. I was wishing I could have brought some of that here.
It was soooo dry that- - - - - - the power would go off when a utility pole would chase a dog. Hey Happy ponding.
When I can get at that stream bed, I'll have pics. Right at this time I'm working on a shade garden. maybe should get pics there too. well rain stoped. Better get moving. Have to get some gravel to mix some cement for the foot of a little retainer wall. I like to have about a 6" strip where grass can't grow. as an edge, to make it easier for mowing.
Hey I sorry I just keep rambleing .
Thanks for the thumbs up on thinking ahead.

Azreno; Same places for the sleaves. Lowes, Home Depot & so on. They even come with the screw type clamps.
Happy ponding

Wonderful, that's on my list of things to do now :-)

I am just reading all the replies and also...you can get ball check valves and shut off valves/fittings too at a good pool supply store too...that's where all mine had come from that I used for my center drain on the old above ground pool I had and the pond filter I built years ago and they are the same things they sell in Home Depot, etc...also...I am still undecided as to what size pump to get and the waterfall setup...still thinking on all of this...plus I am getting ready to go for physical therapy now as I am also a 3 year/still hoping advanced breast cancer/stage 3B cancer survivor...I had a complete radical right mastectomy/no breast replacement/all lymph nodes removed and some of my chest muscle too and i had to have a prophylactic hysterectomy last year because I have genetic inherited cancer...BRACA1 gene mutation...my mother and her two sisters died from ovarian cancer...sorry to bring a sad note to this great discussion but I thought I'd let you all know that as I have to be careful to not overdo it...so...a friend of my 19 year old son and some friends of his will be helping me eventually with redoing the pond...I spent 2 Christmas's in a row in the hospital for a 5 day stint the first time and 9 days last year due to near death cellulitis/infection in my right arm and a 106 almost fever..I had collapsed on the floor in my living room the night of the 23rd and woke up in the hospital...I really thought that was it for me last Christmas!...lol...but I still try to act OK...if one can say that...and I only have my 71 year old father alive now besides my son in my family and he surely isn't up to helping as he has heart problems and mild diabetes...well...I am thrilled that there are SO MANY good ideas to read and ponder over here...and I LOVE all the pictures you're showing...thank you!...

Susanalyn; It's not easy to say much; But I give you a thumbs up. For courage and determination. When the pond is compleated I know it will be a pleasure for you to admire as you feed the fish and eagerly wait for each new lilie to bloom.
Just as our pond was good therapy for me. I had a lot happen to me in 1996. I won't go into details. One of the things was an on the job injury, that ruptured a disc in my lower back. Some of the pieces of the disc imbedded in the neural canel. Had surgery, therapy, couldn't get dressed by myself, needed a walker. But I was still thankfull; I was able to use a stick to pick up cloths if they mised the laundry basket, and feed the wash machine. I even graduated to being able to stand long enough to wash the dishes. and being able to walk the drive way to the mail box was special. However by the time I had gained enough strength to lift any amount of weight; My wife was enjoying having supper ready when she got home, just a little too much. I was able to find a delivery job to keep me occupied, as in the 2 years it took to recover, The company refused to let me come back to work, or even give me lite duty.
Well after all that, and the therapy that being able to still be usefull was giveing me. I built onto the kitchen making it 6' wider and building on an attached garage 30' x 26'. Doing 90% of the work myself, I say it that way, as I had no outside help, except my wife. She did help with some of the steadying of the walls, and holding the trusses up so I could get the skid loader under it and finish lining them up and such. It gave me great pleasure to see the garage takeing shape. Now 10 years later. I hardly have any back pain, I'm not as strong as before the accident. But strong enough, and get around great. For someone as old as your Dad. I guess I'm saying - - - - don't discount what he can do and probably would enjoy very much. Best wishes there " youngster" Go for the pond and enjoy.

WOW!...randbponder...you've been through ALOT!...as alot of us I see here have...we're all very determined people I guess...survivors as I have been told so many times in my life...I surely have been through so much hardship myself with my family and their illnesses and deaths...anyways...I am still pondering what waterfall feature to buy...I think the 48 inch Atlanutic brand biological filter/spillway is maybe TOO BIG for my pond?...even though is will be about 25 feet long by 10 feet wide by roughly 3 and half feet deep/overall in the end run...I think the water movement would be too rough for the waterlilys I plan to grow again and I was going to build or get a skimmer...but then I was thinking...don't your floating pond plants get sucked into them?...I would have a little bit of duckweed and water lettuce floating around...and some of them are pretty tiny...my neighbor across the street brought me a whole bucket full the other day/babies and I haven't put them in the pond yet because that would be dumb being that everything has to come out of it...so they along with my water hyacinths/lilys/and other water plants. are all in holding buckets and containers on the old brick patio...in waiting and it gets late into the summer already...gheez!...I also looked at that Torpedo pump...a 7500 gallon an hour one...do any of you think this is a good choice for my size pond?...or will it be too strong...this will basically be for the waterfall...I may split the flow two ways also with a diverter split to extend into the old waterfall which I may repair or put a smaller biologcal spillway there also...I don't know yet...but I am thinking on it and I do have my small submersible recirculating pumps for extra spitters and a wintertime always running small flow of water...I always leave that one I have running all the time...I don't even remember how big it is OR what brand it is as it's never failed and it's been in the water for a good 20 years I guess and..."knock on wood"...it take a licking and keeps on ticking!...shhhhhhh...te,he...I am SO tempted to get another Magdrive pump...but I had bought a 3200 gallon an hour one about 4 years ago and it worked great for just under when the warranty expired on it...about a year I guess and MAN was I mad when it broke because the garden center I got it from would not help me at all on that and it was ALOT of money back then...around just under $300.00 with state sales tax!...well.........I am off to research for now and get MORE confused!:)

I am also going to put some pic's here...this first one here is how the pond used to look when all the belgian blocks were where they were supposed to be...

the state of the pond right this moment...the right side is where all the Belgian blocks were knocked down into it...antique Belgian blocks that weigh a ton!...and some other boulders fell in also and there are containers in there that held lotuses and they're huge too!...

just another view of it so you can see the scope of the rock problem...

a view from the other end of it...

the broken waterfall and old biological filter I made years ago which I'd still like to reuse somehow...maybe dig it into the ground a little...I used to grow summertime plants around it to conceal it but I think it's an eyesore now!...

This is a pic of one of my outdoor feral cats I take care of..her name is 'Smudge'...she's sitting where I was originally going to extend the pond down into where the above ground pool was taken out but all the wiring is underneath there and I think I'd better NOT go that way now as this is getting to be such an intense planning scheme and the headaches are becoming MORE for me...lol...and I will put a pic of how the pond looked about 5 years ago before all these other problems occurred...like the contractors knocking the rocks and blocks into the pond!...

the two rock piles for new patio where the pool once stood and to help with building the waterfall spillways...

the really badly messed up edge I am talking about...I am streseed over trying to figure out how this will be stabilized again...I had old wood/planks under those blocks which worked GREAT until it was all knocked in.....

also...I have LOTS of varied size boulders from along my old fence that was taken down...I had put them there to keep the ground hogs from digging into my vegetable garden...a new solid fence is going up in white vinyl SO I can now utilize these for around the pond and gardens...

and this was what those idiots did to all my patio and you can see the pond in the distance...this was around Memorial day weekend...everything is slowly getting put back to normal...they did this when they took down the old pool and there're SO MUCH more stories involved with all of this I could tell you...but I'd be speaking forever!...

Oh...I just realized you can see the old swimming pool filter and pump up in the upper left hand corner in that last pic I was talking about using somehow...I am still thinking...maybe I can rig up a way to use the tank as a biological filter with a regular pond pump to it instead of the pool pump being used...hmmmmmmmm...:)

How deep is the area along side of the brick walk, where the rock fell in??
I had my water fall area cave in when I had the pond empty, for cleaning. I rolled the liner back dug the dirt out,smothed up what was left of the side. Fliped the liner back in place. Put some of the leftover liner down and stacked rocks up the side, till it would be just under the last flat flagstone of the falls.
If along the walk is the area you are in question about.- - - -You may have to do something simular to what I did. Another posibility would be to flip the liner back into the pond and use old railroad ties as a retaining wall and place old carpet on the pond side of the ties. That way you could even make a shelf of about two ties deep and two ties wide. which when done would make a nice ledge for some marginal water plants.
I can't really see all the problem, but you may have to only repair the top " lets say the top 16" of the side" . Then you would only have to remove 16- - -18" of water. and lay the liner over a long pipe or pole that you lay over the pond on the side you are working on. I was guessing that you had laid the bricks over the liner along that side. Sounds a little involved, but really not too hard,as long as you take your time. and have some willing help. It sounds like you do have that.
By the way; with your pond, tucked away in that shade makes it look really peacefull & very secluded. Your water is also very clear in the pics. Now as for a pump try googleing. I don't know how to do the hyperlink thing so I will send you a Dmail with the address of websonline They have a large supply of pumps and the shipping is free. They beat everyone elses price, and they are not far from you.
And a 7500gph pump would give a flow like this pic

Some have used nylon fishing filiment to contain the floating plants. I am thinking of useing a section of pvc pipe caped on both ends and ancor both ends either to the sides, or to a couple rocks. The pipe should float and hold the lettuce from going to the skimmer. Haven't done it yet but I think it will work. Put all the floating plants on the upstream side from the skimmer. I have some on hand so I think I will go try it, and let you know K?- - - - Some have also used hula hoops to some success. You are always going to have some koi, pull the plants out of the restraining area. But that is not like haveing all of them in the skimmer.

randbponder...thanks for ALL your great ideas and I just answered your Dmail...I am reading what you said about hula hoops...that's SO clever!...and right now I have no Koi...I have Shubunkins and all those frilly fantails and they really are well behaved...but I know I will get more Koi as I LOVE KOI!...the ones I lost 2 winters ago due to really heavy ice cover...they were about 20 years old..I cried SO hard...they all had names and some would eat of my hand...all 9 of my big guys were very dear to me and my son...some were his from when he was very little...they were about a foot to a foot and half long...sigh...........thanks again....

rand, there is a black PVC pipe that floats that we have used before for projects for our pond.

Yep, the black landscape tubing, I've used it to hold floaters together, then I have to anchor it to a rock or something or it floats away! lol