weedsgalore - thanks for that info. I have a question maybe youi can help with. I went to our local fish store today and explained what is ahppening with the fish. First he said he could'nt believe I was sold feeders less than 2" long for a pond that the smaller fish do not make it outside. I told him that my pond was 100 gallons and even though I had I filled with the outside faucet I did use a pond chloramine remover. He said that the fish were dying not because of anything I did. He suggested me to go to the store and purchase 1 lb of de-iodinized salt and put a half of it in the pond. If I couldn't find that to use rock salt. I'm hesitant to put the salt in. Do you know by chance the reasoning behind that? DH in such a hurry to leave that I wasn't able to getan explanation that sounded reasonable to me. Something to do with beneficial bacteria. I don't understand this.
New member
Salt (plain with absolutely no chemicals added) is a stress reducer for ailing fish. It aids in osmoregulation (fluid and electrolyte passage through the gills)and oyygen uptake. The general rule is 1 1/4 cups per 100 gal. The goal is a 0.1% salt level. Gill function in sick or stressed fish is aided by the salt. Fish are aided by salt up to 0.2%, but this level is toxic to plants. Salt has nothing to do with beneficial bacteria. You do need the bacteria that convert ammonia (from fish waste) to nitrite and then to nitrate. Ammonia levels rise first in a new pond, as the ammonia converting bacteria numbers rise the ammonial levels drop and then nitrites rise. Both ammonia and nitrites are toxic to fish. Then the bacteria that converts nitrite to nitrate begin to work and nitrites drop. Nitrates are far less toxic and if they climb too high a partial water change will take care of it. Plants are good in a pond as they help with oxygenation and filtration. Plants will use fish waste as fertilizer. Dechlorinator is essential in removing chlorine and chloramines from tap water. These chemicals burn the fishes gills. Remember too that overcrowding can put a lot of fish waste into the water. As for the bacteria, they are in there already working, but the numbers need to increase and that takes time.
weedsgalore, I just reread your post. You explained the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle perfectly. You obviously have a lot of good experience.
Feeder goldfish can be perfectly healthy pond fish. The ones that die were in trouble when you got them. Just expect some mortality. Pretty soon you will having fun with this, honest!
I added the salt as recommended. Went out to check for fatalities this morning. One small fish floating. Just one. Its been 3,4 and 5 at a time. Maybe the worst is over???? Hoping hoping. Thank you every one for your advice explanations and support. I get so upset when anything dies and it didn't help to have DD calling me (jokingly) a goldfish killer. I do hope that the fun will begin soon, though.
Thanks snapple, Your explanation of the cycle far exceeds what i have posted! CeCe is having the very same negative problems we have all had in setting up any water and fish features...been doing this for 20 years...and even i should know better..having a new aquarium, had 6 large ones at one time plus the 2 ponds, became burned out with all the maintenance..bought about 5 months ago a new 28 gal.? Went crazy at the fish store and overpopulated the tank...and cece, my hubby called it "the death tank"...always mortalities..and some were expensive fish..snapple..you know what Blue Rams cost..really did know better..they didn't last..very sensitive fish..even if you get good ones..Hang in there cece..salt is good for the type of fish. yu have.i have gouramies in my ponds they hate salt! TONS of water oxygenating plants, no filtration other than that..everyone is breeding & happy..put a couple of rosy barbs (large ones) they are fantastic pond fish here in the semi-tropics..Lesson learned the hardway CeCe. (we have all been there) start with about 6 fish or so..till as snapple says your pond cycles the good things needed! Always add only one or up to 3 fish at a time...Welcome to the hobby..you will do fine! We all go a little crazy in the beginning!
Hi weedsgalore I have the 10 bigger ones left. a couple of the smaller ones as well. I'm happy with what i have left. Hoping the worst is over but if not.........I'll deal with it. What are gouramies? Maybe something I don't think I want????????????? or rosy barbs????? Thank you.......you are so kind.
Cherie
Cherie, That should be fine for a "fish count" for now...if you lose some...just wait a month or so..i realize you are in a climate that will be experiencing an approaching cool or even chilly fall..your fish should be acclimated to overwinter in the pond by then. Our Sept. & oct. the weather can still be in the mid 80's to 90's (with our global warming). You should get a good book on beginning ponding or aquarium fish..library..or google fish etc. Gouramis & rosy barbs are not for WI, I may even transfer them (only 2) to my aquarium for the winter. They are for indoor aquariums in colder states...hey! i think you need to ask Hubbie next for an aquarium...it's like having a pond indoors..except you can get up close and personal with your fish! (giggle...we better not press the poor man) have fun! sue
Sue I've already started about the fish tank..............Hubby just rolls his eyes.
I lost a few more of the smaller ones. Man at the fish store said he couldn't believe they had put in fish 1/2 inch and smaller for me to put in a pond. He told me I'd probably lose the smaller ones yet because they are just not suitable for outside.
Started on Hubby for a greenhouse ha like thats going to happen he says. Another begging,charming, pleading door-slamming foot stomping two years for me........What can I say?
Must keep life interesting. Right?/
Cherie
Cherie,
You are now one of us...you have become addicted to ponding. Good or bad, it's still fun (and trust me, no matter how experienced you get through the years, one bad something, and it can blow all your efforts) It's just something we all have to deal with. I wouldn't be tempted to add more fish just yet...let the water balance itself, and get a good level of beneficial bacteria up and running. After that, depending on what kind of pump or filter (even it it's a natural plant filter) you can add more.
weedsg is correct....goldfish are indeed pooping machines. Try and remember they are from the wild originally, and have survived for thousands of years without humans feeding them boxed food. If you have plant life in your pond, they have a great deal to eat already. Don't be tempted to overfeed them.
The salt will help them establish a nice slime coat, which protects them from many skin ailments.
Keep us all informed, it sounds like you're beginning to level off and move on (and in the right direction!)
:)
I'm not putting in any more fish this year anyway. I'm happy with the ones I've got in there. Let me tell you what plants I do have in there. 2-Bull Rush(Scirpus), 2-Narrow-Leaved Cattail(Typha), 1-Red Stem Lizard's Tail (Saururus) and 1-Floating Heart(Nymphoides).
Do any of these feed the fish as well? I bought these cause well for 1 they were the only thing available at this time of year and 2 they are hardy from zones 3 or 4 to zones 8 - 10. I figured maybe they'd actually survive the winters out there.
Iask too many questions tell me to just hush up okay?
Cherie
Part of my water garden ponds.
Just about any water plant with roots will help feed fish.....the naturally go around and pick at root matter, decaying root matter, algae on stems, etc....
The fun part is to feed them, just limit how much you actually are lured into doing it, by their begging little faces!
Never feel like you're asking too many questions....that's the whole poing of Dave's Garden...to ask as many as you want! We're all here to help and ask questions ourselves! :)
The plants you have listed above, will all spread with time (cat-tails can actually take over) Lilies on the surface, can add shade, and help keep some of the algae down. They have dwarf varieties for smaller gardens. Anacharis, is a great underwater plant, that helps feed fish, oxygenate the water, and gives babies a place to hide.
I'll keep the anachris in mind. I want to get some lily pads but I guess it'll wait til spring, that and some water hyacinth as well.
Hey Merry M. & CeCe, Nice ponds MM! You have ponds within ponds! Lovely! Here in Fla. if you want anacharis, we can go to any natural pond and pull it out..only that can be dangerous here in Aligatorland, not to mention the Water Moccassins!!ff(AND mosquitos galore right now) I don't know if you guys get the news from Fla. We have had an unusual amount of human/alligator encounters this year. Some fatalities too. So i tend to buy my underwater plants from Petsmart, or the local aquarium stores. I have bought "Cabomba" which is an oxygenating underwater plant..i have to cull it from my ponds as it gets rampant..so good for the fish..looks like you are starting to level off Cherie...just like Merry Mary states, even the most experienced aquarium/pond enthusiast can have a whole tank/pond of fish get sick and lose them!! (been there done that..a few times). it is very disheartening...take care..sue ps no question is too much..it is always nice to "gab" with fellow enthusiasts!
Oh goshegolly I found one of my 2"er's floating. It was mostly a brown and white, not one of my favorites but still...............I think I got too convinced the worst was over. We'll see in the morning I guess.
Yes I have heard of the alligator/human encounters this year. Makes me glad I don't live in Fla. but then we've family on both mine and my hubby's that go there frequently and just LOVE it. Me I'm chicken. One of them gators would have my name on the brain and come looking for sure.
No fatalities this morning Yayyyy! Greedy little things though when I throw a pinch of food in there.
cececoogan - looks like you have it under control....I'm building my waterfalls this weekend (hopefully if my 2 strapping boys visit) and am looking forward to adding fish..however, with winter around the corner (oh no!) I think I'll wait till spring and start fresh...lots of good info though...
Only thing I see in the pond are my cats trying to sip water....worry about their little claws in the liner though...oh well...it's quite a site so I'll just hope for the best..good luck with your little fishies...
My frogs were back this morning. They're so cute. I've been seeing almost three times the birds in my back yard. I walked out to the pond Monday afternoon and scared up about 20 birds. What are they doing? Looking for a fish dinner? on Mondays???? They better not be pestering my fish.
DS has been teasing me....First he said he wanted to drill a hole in the ice and go ice fishing asked me if he needed a permit ti fish on my property. After I told him I was getting a deicer for winter he decided he was going to sneak over in the middle of the night with a small Northern and when I got up no more goldfish but I'd have a happy northern. He's just NOT funny.
EVeryone in my family and DH's are having a field day picking on my fish. I need some quick comebacks. Any help would be greatly appreciated and definately used.
cececoogan - if nothing else it seems to have brought much joy to you and yours...perhaps not for those fishies...but oh well...their time was limited....
Not if I can help it. If the deicer is too expensive I will get an aquarium and put it on my side of the bed so I can sleep with one eye open. Any fish remaining next spring get names and........yes it has brought me and mine much joy, teasing and laughter, Whatever happens to them happens.....Mother Natures way of keep it down.
I lost two of my bigger fish Boo Hoo:( I'll just buy more come spring if they all die. They're sure fun to watch when I put a pinch of food in for them. Very sparingly once a day. I just like to watch them fight each other for it.They swim into each other and knock each other sideways. They're so funny.
Cherie, The fact that they are so avid for food is always a good sign...! Feeding is always a fish ponder's favorite thing to do...it is the only time i can really see everyone and who is still with us and who has gone to that great pond in the sky!! sue..who i think may not get hurricane Ernesto in HER ponds...hopefully! A small anecdote for you: one time it rained so hard that all the fish from both ponds were all over the gravel walk flipping about! Fortunately i thought to check the ponds (with an umbrella). both my husband and myself were scooping up flipping fish and flipping them back into the ponds. Most of them were still healthy and lived a long life afterwards. I am sure some were swimming up the little ditch that looked like a river that day...we were giggling like crazy, in the pouring rain!! sue
Hello, all,
I've been enjoying all your postings and getting lots of good info from them. I recently put in a new pond myself. I posted pictures on the thread titled Need Help. It's 4'x6' and 15" deep. I've been lucky with my fish that none have died so far. The water was sitting in there for almost a week before I added any. I bought only 3 fish the first time, though, along with some plants. They were calico fantail goldfish. Then about a week later I bought 3 comets and added them. They are all doing well. But I'm disappointed because they're always hiding. Even when I put in food they will not come up to feed until I go away. I know they're eating, as I come back later and the food is gone. It's hard to enjoy them when they don't want to show themselves. I'm hoping they will become braver with time.
Rita, I love your sphinx cats. I have always wanted some, as well as some Devon or Cornish Rex cats. I'm not in a position to have any right now, though. I have a dog and a rat and just a bedroom at my father's house. No room for cats, and I can barely afford the vet bills for the dog as it is.
Anyhow, just wanted to introduce myself and let everyone know how much I enjoy reading these postings, though very time-consuming for me, as I'm no speed reader. I try and stick with shorter threads that won't take me an hour to read. That is how long it took me to read this one. Sigh!
Karen
Here's a pic of my pond.
pond is adorable....amazing how one feels at peace hearing the sounds of water...with weather being so bad least weekend I didn't feel like I lost out being sick..hopefully this weekend I'll complete my waterfalls and post a picture...am enjoying my fishless pond...next year, I'll get right into it
nutsfordaylily - You were smarterthan me. I put fish in the very next day. Shy ir stand-off fish huh? Sorry can't help you there my pond is only a 2 1/2 weeks old. I just kknow my fish are right there when my shadow hits the pond. Are you feeding them at the same time every time? I go out by mine at 7 in the am. Faithfully. Well except when it was raining but then that mde them all the more eager,
I have my 2 frogs back!!! My but they are fiesty ones. Jump in that pond with the mightiest splash I've ever seen.
I'll post a pic of mine... No waterfall but hey there's always next year. Couldn't find any lily pads stores were all out so thats another next summer. With as long as it took me to talk dear hubby into it I'm not complaining.
No rock around it either. My son promised me some so I'm waiting..............Probably end up getting my own. That wasn't the pic I thought it was so I've got to find a better one.
Have been waiting for my sons' to visit so they can assist me with the rocks and granite that I've picked up for the falls..am making faux rocks around the pond to save my back..but, they 've been so busy soooo I'll just get one more burst of engergy and do the job myself.....for the past week on my way to work I pass a small village and see a row of rocks side by each just sitting...tonight I'll finally stop and ask the owners if the rocks have been put by the sidewalk for someone to take or if they will be using them...I can only hope they are for the taking!!! imagine...must need a life if I'm spending my time searching for rocks....they are calling for major rain this long weekend, that kind of puts an end to my wanting to complete my waterfall and do finishing touches to my pond...oh well, there is always tomorrow...
Ms Day Lily, i too, "hunger" for rocks...here in fla. you must buy them and they ain't cheap!! i have nice neighbors that when they go to the N. Caroline, Mts. they leave little rocks and some big ones by my mailbox! I was able to do a sort of rock garden with all the rocks my friends would collect!! Go up to the door and tell them you will haul off those rocks for free!!! About your fish...give them time...they will soon associate you with food! And will beg for it! sue
Just an update on my pond. I have 13 of the feeder goldfish that I put in last month. The survivors are the bigger ones and I am having a paty when I go out to feed them. They are always right there the minute I walk up. They are so cute.........
wonderful...started my pond late and have mega work to do...grandchildren were over on Sunday and were all looking for fish...they all promised if I finish this project they'll supply the fish next spring...they thought shark would be a good start.....
Your little fishies seem to have finally found their home....good for you..enjoy them...
Very nice Betty! You were smart to go with a generous sized pond! You know there is a fresh water shark in our aquarium shops here...it is not really a shark...but i don't think it would last in Ontario..as it is a tropical....just for a hoot..get one of those little motorized windup sharks that pool places sell...they chug along..(well, pool places here in Fla. anyway) i think a toy outlet has them..the grandkids would get the biggest chuckle over granma's shark! Good news CeCe, sounds like your fish situation straightened itself out...they are such little food hounds aren't they..always begging! sue
Food hounds they are. I'm cutting back on feeding them now or so I thought I was. Found out hubby goes out and feeds them every afternoon when he gets home from work. I give them just a little in the morning. He's enjoying these fish more than he expected he would and has been wondering why it took me so long to convince him I really wanted the pond. Go figure hey? Men!!
cececoogan
Have you had your water tested? The pet store here in town test mine for free. You can buy kits to test it yourself, but I don't trust me matching the colors up correctly. Then after the pet store test the water she'll help me with any adjustments that might need to be made.
Hope this helps.
Jeri
Has been very interesting reading all your posts of lily or fish ponds. You all are doing great and will really enjoy your water features. I have been a widow for 12 years. My husband and I had 80 acres of apple orchard which we had sold a few years before just keeping the house in northwest edge of orchard. I sold the house after he died and bought this 5 1/2 acres space, nothing but sagebrush and grass. My daughter wanted to know why i wanted to homestead at my age, that was 11 years ago, and I am now 80 yrs. But now when the grown kids see my garden spot they agree it was right thing for me to do.
The next year the fellow who works for me when he has the time and I have the money, and has for more than 15 years, he and I started building the two ponds. The larger one is about 10 x 12 ft, and 30inches deep at deepest spot., with shelves around the edges. The smaller pond is about 5 feet away and slightly higher with a tiny trickle of water going under the bridge. Have a recirculating pump in each pond. The large pond has probably 35 goldfish and 1 Koi that I paid $20.00 for, three years ago. It is now about 12 inches or so and gets along nicely with the goldfish. I feed maybe every third day. and not in winter. The smaller pond is for the frogs, toads, and tadpoles. However someway I guess it is a goldfish, (hasn't turned gold yet tho) got into the smaller pond, it is about 5", I don't know how it could possibly have gotten into the upper pond, never happened before.
I will post a couple of photos of my ponds.
Donna
My water lilies have never grown like this before, I know their roots have escaped out of the pots and into the rich soil in bottom of the pool. The leaves are so large it is hard to find the blooms.Here is a photo of the smaller pond. the rocks are all local rocks.
Donna
oh Ruth!! Wonderful landscaping and pond!! Good for you for following your heart...it gives me alot to look forward to when i am 80! Enjoyed your pics!! A note to CeCe as your weather cools you will need to stop feeding the fish..as they go into a dormancy...and it is not good for them to have food in their tummies. can even kill them....even in hot ol' fla. my fish go dormant and i don't feed them for the duration of the winter... I forget what water temp. should be when you do this...i am sure someone knows this..or google it or a good pond book will tell you! Living in a colder climate, it will happen when your fall chilly temps arrive..i will consult a pond book if you need this info. take care, everyone..on an unrelated note i was googling some pond plant spelling and info. for my garden club..and for some reason this thread came up!!! Wow, we're famous..chuckle..sue
Rutholive
Love your ponds. Is that moss growing and what is that burgundy around the edge with phlox off to the left?
This message was edited Sep 13, 2006 10:29 PM
No it isn't moss, this climate too dry for moss. It is thyme. I have several varieties of thyme in different areas of the garden. the other low growing flowering ground cover is perennial Baby's Breath, Gypsophila repens (I think).
thanks for the nice comments.
Donna
Sue I think my book said at 45 degrees for water temp. I know about feeding them now. I just can'tstop the ol;d guy from going out and feeding them. I want to get them down to where next month they can just go dormant til spring., I'll have to hog tie hubby to the house and away from the p[ond that or hide the fish food.
Its crazy seeing as he put up such a fuss for the past two years that I don't need a pond only to finally give in and he spends more time out there than me! Brat that he is I still love'em.
Cherie