Believe it or not my morning glories aren't doing that well

Drought going on.

This message was edited Jul 30, 2006 1:05 AM

Here's a close up. In case your wondering I also have grape vines growing with the morning glories.

at least yours have blooms ~ am still waiting

I think I can ascertain faint beginnings of a possible MG flower bud here and there in my own garden - Core, gorgeous vines like yours are why I'm lurking in this forum right now. If you think yours is pitiful now, would you happen to have any pics of past MGs that you found more satisfying?

Also, do you know the name or kind of MG this is? I wonder if some types of MGs are genetically more disposed to higher ratios of flower to leaf? I imagine culture has a lot to do with that, but still...?

Last year they were bigger and probably double the amount of flowers. Sorry no other pics and I actually bought thoses at Lowes for 1.50 but they didn't have a name on them. By the way those die back every year and tend to grow better the next year. I do nothing to them, they are in full sun from sunrise to about 4 in the PM.

Hmmmm...is it possible that something you might be doing to the grass might be affecting the morning glory? Do you ever apply anything to the grass that might contain fertilizer? If so, I wonder if that might not be running off into the vicinity of the morning glory's roots and thus causing the high ratio of leaves to flowers. I once read in a Rodale encyclopedia that the following three basic nutrients primarily affect the following plant parts:

N (nitrogen) for leaves
P (phosphorus) for flowers/fruit
K (potassium) for stem/root

I would imagine that grass fertilizer would have a N-P-K ratio highest in nitrogen.

Welp, I've been so tempted to fertilize our MGs this year because of the late seed-sowing date, so am very interested to know about your vines. At any rate, it must be heaven underneath your arbor when they grow over it.

I posted on another thread my concern about the leaves on my morning glories in a container. http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/633315/ So I decided what the heck, if they're not blooming and I don't fertilize, I can't lose much by fertilizing. This morning I fertilized with a blossom booster 10-50-10. We'll see.

revclaus, I'll be all "ears".

core, i only just checked on one JMG in the DG PlantFiles, but it's interesting that the category for pH is marked "unknown". I also wonder whether you limed your lawn since last year and, if so, whether runoff from that might have affected the vine?

As far as the grass I don't lime it. Soil PH is around 5.7 and the only thing I use on the grass is turf builder in early spring. those MG's have been there for 5 years and I always do the same thing to the grass so the amount of flowers is effected by something else.

The other thing is the grape vines I have in there don't like fertilizer at all so even if I wanted to I wouldn't put anything on them.

Here's a pic of the grapes hiding in the MG.

Here's another, I know by this time last year the vines almost made complete shade. Their growing but slower. We are having a drought so that's probably the problem.

What kind of grapes are you growing? I'll bet it is the drought causing problems, although your MGs look great to me, just not too many flowers.

Drought sounds good to me, too. However, I can't help being curious about another possible cause (and check out the ozone map for South Carolina in the last link) -

Ozone has been linked to lower flower and fruit production in some plants, and the chemistry of its effects varies with regard to whether it's in the stratosphere (upper atmosphere) or troposphere (lower atmosphere, including ground level otherwise referred to as "ambient"). A great dictionary for plowing through some of these articles is: http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/ .

Since the ozone in the stratosphere protects living organisms on earth from ultraviolet radiation, too little of it wreaks havoc. See http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/abstract/86/1/108 for an example. (The pollutants involved in ozone stratospheric chemistry include chlorine-fluorine hydrocarbons from refrigerants)

In the troposphere, it's too much ozone that is the villain. The following website explains in basic terms how man-made ozone is formed from fossil fuel pollutants and affects plants: http://www.ars.usda.gov/Main/docs.htm?docid=8453 .

The above is very general, and I do not know to what extent morning glory flowering in particular may be affected. Does anyone else want to comment on whether and how morning glories might be affected by varying levels of ozone and related increase in ultraviolet light? As always, I welcome correction from resident experts.

PS - For fun, in the first link of that botanic journal, click on "home" and then key in "ipomoea" etc. in the search hopper.

Thanks to all for putting up with my curiosity.

Hanging around in the weather forum for a year have tought me bundles. i dont think any of us can expect a normal growth in our garden. I dont think drout is your problem nor lack of nutrients since the leaves you have dont show signs. If MG:s wants to flower and grow and there is not enough nutrients they steal this nutrients from the oldest leaves thats how you know they need to be fed. I have started fo feed some of my older MG:s since the leaves got yellow spots (not caused by pests) and they have stopped yellowing further. These older plants is the ones I have had growing since Nov last year in pots and the nutrients in the pot have run out.

We had abnormal high UV radiation and that makes the plants, not only MG:s stay closer to the ground. Most of my MG:S that is planted in flowerbeds look like Josephs MG shown here, only my have atleast the duoble amouth of leaves and I know they are "normaly" tall growers.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/fp.php?pid=2568822

The only MG:s that grows fairly good is the ones I have in planters and pots under a partytent protected from the sun all day.Growing but still a lot "shorter" then they should be and no flowers yet

The ONLY plant that grows good and normal and flower in my garden despite the UV is Datura fleur lilac. We have had drought here too for a month and the Birches is burnt to a crisp but I have watered my garden every sinlge day so there is NO drought in the frontyard. Even the Hardy Hibiscuses I have have been suffering in this weather and I built a shelter for them otherwise they had been burnt to crisp too, they where all dark red from the UV and now they look healthier. I made a small hoophouse over their flowerbed with its fronside open so they get about one hour full sunexposure every day, still redish but doing alot better.

Mother nature is telling us that we have to stop doing whatever we are doing to her otherwise I fear that we all will be burnt to crisp by UV radiation.
Janett

PS we still have high UV not as high as the first half of summer but still higher then normal. DS

You also have to take in considouration.........WHERE is the seeds coming from and how many generations (seasons) have they grown there. Plants adapt to whats normal where they are from and you have to take that in when you see how your MG is doing.
This "normal" is passed on to the seeds.
Janett

Janett, are you saying that the seeds are evolving to take into consideration global warming locally?

I did that post VERY early in the morning :0)) (4 hors sleep)and I wasent thinking it could sound so of the wall.rotflol
That wasent what I was thinking of when I did the last post. I was refering to flower time and growspeed.
For ex if I take seeds from a plant from Florida or Texas with a LOT longer growing season then I have then I cant expect the flower to grow for me as well as they do in Fl or Tx. They need a couple of seasons to adapt to my climat even if I have a nomal season, same goes when it comes from colder zones.
I have a Sepium growing on this property and that took a lot of hard freeze night and still put up flowers on sunny days last fall/vinter before it croaked. Same Sepium that has grown in Florida for generation will croak at the first sign of frost.

One cant just look at the plant in it self you also have to know the growing conditions that THIS plants seed have had for generations.
Ron told me that the plantseeds that I have(not from my growing condition) will adapt to the conditions I have and flower according to my growing conditions after a couple of seasons. With some exeptions on the real tropical ones. There you have to mimic the conditions regarding heat to germinate the seeds
If you have a choise of seed supplies choose the one that have a more "difficult" growing condition then you have, they will perform better for you.
Writing this to answere you and thinking of it. YES if the global warming would be constant for years to come the plant will eighter adapt or cave in but it will also change its "growing habit", atleast if you agree with Darwins teorie.
Janett

I wondered if your flower could benefit from some cross pollenating with another vine. Is your vine coming back from root or is is self seeding?

I wondered if a vine self seeding over and over will loose vigor or desired qualities from lack of genetic diversity?

You might try adding new seeds from time to time rather than that one vine self seeding year after year.

I know this adding new seeds is helping with mine. I throw out what isn`t doing well in my garden and I have already started to experiment with cross pollinating the best vines to promote desired qualities in my seeds to see if that will get me good results.

This message was edited Aug 1, 2006 2:27 PM

I see what you mean, Janett. Mine are always annuals and lately I haven't been saving the seed. Might be interesting to do that to see what happens. Gardener, I wish I had enough room to experiment. Just one pot gives me one choice (I prefer all one color in the pot).

Hello everyone,
very captivating conversation!
I tend to agree with Janett.
I notice a big difference in plant growth and blooms from rain water as opposed to well, or tap water combined with UV exposure. The draught may very well inhibit blooms on a variety of spectrums, only a couple of which are measurable. From time to time, I experiment by shading the plant in question with various sized umbrellas, some of which are Sau paper (opaque) which screens some uv rays, or the deck varity with small holes. I have tall bamboo poles to which I attach the lighter umbrellas then rotate them through sections I think may be getting too much uv rays during the peak UV times of the day. Interestingly enough there are some differences on certain plants in respects to blooming.
In my climate here though, the morning glories stop blooming during the summer as a rule of thumb.. Right now the older vines are growing vigorously - ramping up for the autumn display when it starts cooling down here.
Rain water & UV--
Rj

Now I am really on thin ice, but I dont think it will make the plant weaker as long as there is plenty of flowers of the same kind/hybrid. I dont know if inbreeding can make any MG:s weaker or unfertile but I dont think so
Talking to Emma regarding her crosses and how she makes her crosses stronger in its look/growing habit. She has a few vines that she crosses over and over to make them stronger in their genpool and if you have but one hybrid I cant see how pollinating by hand or let nature take its course would make it different. HOWEVER you can never be certaine that it dont get crossed with other MG:s pollen since birds/bees/insects can travel far and have another hybrids pollen with them.
I do know that some MG:s NEED pollen from another genepool to set seeds but that seems not to be the case with Purpurea, Nil and what is called Imperialis and some other that I for my life cant remeber the latin name of :0)) to darn tired right now.

The Sepium that I have growing on the property comes back from root and I also think/believe it selfseed.since I was up there last fall a dug and pulled in those vines and bushes and stirred up its growing habit. This year it has gotten a lot bigger. Growing up that snowberry bushes on a lot more places. I think by being up there I may have "planted" some of the seeds in the ground.
Janett

Edit to say now I really now I am way to tired...Tthis post took me about 45 minutes to wright according to check on rj:s post

This message was edited Aug 1, 2006 10:55 PM

Janett. you are so right about adaptation to the environment. Around here we call it "root hog or die". If it can't adapt to the changes in heat, etc, then it falls by the wayside and the adaptable plants take over. Good example is the constant battle we have trying to keep native weeds from taking over our flower beds and yards.


This message was edited Aug 1, 2006 6:04 PM

I see what you mean by just one kind of vine in one pot.

Another idea is to hang tag the best flowers on the best vines with the most buds and flowers on it and save those seeds. I like to take a flexible thin plastic plant tag and cut it in a one inch square,I put a hole in it with a hole puncher,slice into it with the scissors on one side to the hole and it clips right on the flower like a small collar. That is a way to mark the best flowers on the best vines without it looking so obvious and you will be able to find the pods later on.

If you start another pot then you might get addicted like me and end up with dozens. :)

This message was edited Aug 1, 2006 6:06 PM

Speaking of dozens- Gardener 2005 I have an large amount of seeds that I want to start for the autumn bloom and seeds- I have little experience in keeping MG's in pots. Would you be so kind as to dmail me the soil or medium composition you use, the size of pots- transplanting up to larger pots? I am about to start 50 plus different varities and I want to try the pots in order to maintain enviornmental control in order to have the MG's bloom and produce seeds.
Do you have pictures? I think our climates are probably similar- your input would be very valuable and save me some time in my backyard labratory garden!. Or if you like I can start another thread-
Thanks,
rj

rj, You got D-mail. Sure you can start a thread. You`d probably get plenty of good tips.

Probably would be good to start a Morning Glory Experiment thread. I'd be interested in what your results are and how you do it. I belonged to a group on Yahoo some time ago where the topics were similar. Lots of knowledgeable folks, but it's a dormant group right now.

That would be a good idea- I am really intrigued by what types of morning glories can adapt, or currently grow in high temp regions.

When you plant and see what happens then you`ll find out soon. In our garden whatever can`t thrive under reasonably good care needs the boot...and shovel...you know shovel pruned...yeah, kinda sad but true. But it frees up space for things that will do better in your garden.

I admit I`ll hook up the IV and monitor closely if the plant costed me some dollars. I have actually gotten sad from loosing a plant. I wonder if that is normal? hope so. :)



This message was edited Aug 1, 2006 8:13 PM

I'd say losing a plant is very normal. I get sad when one doesn't make it. DH can't stand to pull out a plant that needs to go, too sad for him, so I get to do it. LOL

oh yes....I can't throw a plant away! Specially the ones you grow from seed. You watch it grow from a tiny seed- to a thriving plant- oh yes indeed- I am sad when loosing plants- it's even worse when you see them croaknig and can't figure out how to save it.

Yes,my own seedlings mean a lot to me. If any of them don`t make it then it is very disappointing. You wonder what would have been and you had a lot of hope in that little seed.

I have some vines I crossed between different varieties I`m growing out right now. I have to say when I saw those sprouts come up from all the work I put in that it made me smile.

I`ll see what happens. One thing I do see is Vigor. Yep,some of the crossbred vines are growing like they are in a race. So there is hybrid vigor already apparent.

They share about day lily crosses often and I haven`t seen any where morning glory crosses were shown.

I`ll do that. I have pictures of all the pollen and pod parents so I can post results later on in about another month or two. I hope I did things right and time will tell. I already see where some leaves took on characteristics of both parents. I`ll post some pictures when I get results and that ought to be fun.

Anyways,sorry to be so long winded and make the thread drift around so much. I`m getting over a flu bug so had a little time on my hands today. See ya`ll later! :)

Sounds like your a bit ahead on the MG experience then I am. I'm still on a sharp learning curve.

Okay, many posts of many things going on. First I've never seen seeds on my MG's. I have them on 3 out of the 4 posts but they are the same kind. Hmm. When should these seed? What does the seed look like?

Second as far as the ground level ozone, I'm about as far east and south as you can get in SC, about 1 mile from the ocean, 10 miles from Savannah GA. According to that map ground level ozone problems are hundreds of mile from me.

As far as the UV thing I'm sure that can be a problem simply because durning drought there aren't any clouds. No rain, no clounds, plants get full sun day after day. Global warming??? This goes on durning any drought period and as far as heat we're normal this year, almost right on the nose. For that matter we're cooler than NYC right now. LOL, who would have thunk.

Think I should mix in some other kind of MG in with the ones I have growing?

I wondered if these come back from root or seed? Plants coming back from roots are cultivars that do not change genetically. Plants from seeds can change because they are different from the parent plants.

Another thought is your soil could be compacted.

Check and see if your soil is compacted. Take a garden tool and try and push it into the soil. If it is hard and you can`t easily press the tool into the soil then you might need to aerate the soil around your plants? I know overdone aerating can kill roots and plants but done right it can help a great deal.

I wonder if a more experienced gardener could advise here because I have never grown a grape vine. I do know that a layer of compost and mulch is good for grape vines.






This message was edited Aug 11, 2006 11:19 PM

CoreHHI...........If you are cloudless the amount of UV radiation your plants are exposed to gets higher! Clouds actually filter away UV radiation just like windows does. UV radiation comes from the sunrays not from the ozon layer or the air.
Thats why you have to adapt plants form being grown indoors to the sun or they burn. Its like, you cant go down to the beach and lay all day in the sun fist time in the spring as your body have no protection to the UV rays.. THAT is what suntan is all about. protection of the suns ratiation of wich UV is the most dangerous one. Plants dont have the same fast tranceformation when we plant them many times outside their "normal" growing place.

On a scale up to 9 we have been above 7 and normal for us is below 5 on top of that we have around 18 hours of sunlight in the midle of summer, no wonder my MG:s have gone dwarf. I know most of the MG:s seeds I have planted now are tall growers and proific bloomers since this is there first season here and most of the seeds comes from EmmaGrace. The ones planted in the flowerbeds grow like soccer balls all round bushlike and havent even start to show there climbing scills.
Janett

Here is a link to my MG journal- http://davesgarden.com/journal/ed/index.php?tabid=2857
If you scroll down to the blizzard and wild orange photo- there are some seed pods to check out.
Mine go to seed in the spring- I have not quite reached MG 102 yet as I'm still muddling in labratory class 101 lol!
I am going to try the pots on some 20 different types and see what happens. I will say this- the ones that have gone to seed, are ones I have grown from seed. Ones from a nursery, or cuttings and plants pulled from friends- have not gone to seed. Not sure what that means, only an observation at this point.

Thanks, you've been busy. LOL. I never had seeds so the MG's must be coming back from roots.