A quick question for VV

How far apart can the viburnums be planted for good pollination? We just got the Eastern snowball... It had big red berries... & couldn't pass that up.
Oh & the birds do eat these berries, correct?

Thanks for your informative pictorial earlier, we enjoyed that.
Abigail

Although I can't ever hold a candle to VV in regards to answers, let me get him started. First off, "Easter Snowball" must be an incorrect name, as snowball types are sterile(no fertile flowers). BUT, you said it had big red berries, so I assume the label was just plain wrong. I assume it's V. trilobum, or V. opulus. Birds eat the berries, but much later, after some freeze and thaw action makes them a bit more tasty. As for cross pollination, you need different plants that are closely related--not the exact same cultivars. V. trilobum, V. opulus, V. sargentii, V. edule, and V. orientale should work. Best success comes with close proximity. Closer=more fruit, and the farther away you get, the less fruit you will have. It also depends on what else those pollinators have to work with--they can get distracted by other plants if your Viburnums are too far apart. I am learning here that my success is much much better with plants located in the same bed. Anything past 100' or so and my bugs get distracted.

southernOhio:

That's about as apt a name as there is on DG; if you were any further south, you'd be wet (or West Virginian). I didn't know where Proctorville was before, but now I won't forget.

Dittodittodittodittodittodittoditto what Kevin said, at least about proper ID. Knowing what you have, leads to knowing where to go and what to do.

•Most snowball types have big hemispherical or rounded flowerheads composed of sterile florets, but many are just mostly sterile florets with some fertile flowers hidden inside (remember: "...There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive..." as stated by Miracle Max in The Princess Bride).

•Big red berries means V. opulus to me, especially when attached to a common name like eastern snowball. I don't think V. trilobum ever gets that moniker. Ask where you bought the plant, or take some pictures and post them here.

•Birds do eat the berries, usually very late in season (even late winter) depending on other food sources or opportunities.

•So...plant an appropriate pollinator-to-be-named-later, and aim for the 100-150 foot range. If you don't have the space, coerce a neighbor into planting one (esp. if they have garbage can plants to delete). Key is overlapping bloom times.

•Kevin's pollinators must be IL; my bugs manage to stay on task with pretty much all the plants, but I have acres of meadow to keep pollinators interested.

Hey southernohio did you see the movie Mothman Prophesies. That happened near you and it was a true story. One of the scariest movies I have ever seen. Stay away from bridges over the Ohio R. LOL

I did see Mothman, My husband lived thru it... It was quite a stir. I ll see if I can get him to post something about it, in a bit.

There is a town South Point which is further south, but hey who is keeping tabs!


Yippee, at the 100 feet maximum... Ours are about 20 (two Shasta & 2 baby shastas) feet & about 40-45. (Viburnum Lentago nannyberry & an Autumn Jazz /Ralph Senior ) I appreciated knowing that wasn't mismarked name in your last post.

Now are those guys compatible? or will they pollinate each other. The Shastas are the only ones that put on much of a bloom show. and they & the autum Jazz had a handful of berries. ( I thought the Princess Bride was a chick flick)

I think this new one is the V. opulus, the berries looked the same & I will get a picture of it on here later. I really do appreciate at the correct names. Tho I am not great at verifying them. LOL

And thank you as always for the great info you all provide here.

Here are a few pics.

I found this website & I still cant tell. However, mine does have opposite leaves & a red stem on the leaf.

http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ldplants/viop5.htm

Here is a full view. I am not much of a photographer

Here's the full view

You should start arranging some marriages for your children à la Prince Humperdinck. Or Princess Buttercup and Westley.

•Your 'Shasta' (large or small) are going to produce more fruit if they have a different clone of Viburnum plicatum var. tomentosum around. Examples include 'Shoshoni', 'Summer Snowflake', 'Mariesii', and a host of others.

•Your unknown "eastern snowball" will need a Viburnum trilobum partner. I'm not promoting V. opulus clones when natives can be used. 'Alfredo', 'Hahs', 'Wentworth', or Red Wing™ will work.

•The Viburnum lentago will need another seedling nannyberry or a Viburnum prunifolium with overlapping bloom time.

•Autumn Jazz™ /'Ralph Senior' will find "twu wuv" with a suitor like Northern Burgundy™/'Morton' or 'Emerald Luster' (another apt name).

With appropriate partnership (and blooms), you should have a stellar fruiting season. The "handful of berries" tells the story of relative self-incompatibility.


Just keep on believing that, while the coarser gender savors the intensely witty dialogue, violence, and presence of WWF stars.

That has to be one of the all-time great movies. It came out when my two girls were still young enough to cuddle up with dad and watch a movie on the VCR. Great cast, incredible humor, sword fights and unusually large rodents--what more could you ask for?

Twu wuv shouldn't be too hard to find. Give us about a year.... less if there's money on the shelf.

I have had my eye on the Northern Burgundy & mariessii already... So you've taught me a lot.

lentagos need lentagos, plicatums need plicatums...etc. Is that right?

Altho it sounds as if the nannyberry may seed with a nannyberry start off the same bush?

because as you know "Mawage is wot bwings us togeder tooday. Mawage, that bwessed awangment"

Thanks again. Your brains are our asset!

"...that dweam wifin a dweam..."

The Grandson: Has it got any sports in it?

Grandpa: Are you kidding? Fencing, fighting, torture, revenge, giants, monsters, chases, escapes, true love, miracles...

The Grandson: Doesn't sound too bad. I'll try to stay awake.

Back to viburnum reproduction: your nannyberry needs a seedling from off your current nannyberry or from somewhere else, not a clone (like a rooted cutting or division), in order to get genetic diversity for pollination. Otherwise, you're on target.

Shucks, Not to change movies, but I need "Shrubbery"

Sorry to continue in off thread discussion but "Princess Bride" is one of my favorites. But I like chick flicks. I have every variety of "An affair to remember"
Anyone who doesn't have Viburnum "Onadaga" is missing one of the best.

That mawage quote is my daughters favorite... She giggles incessantly while watching the movie...
And I am notorious about continuing 2 conversations on a thread.... I am a thread killer, so really, I don't mind.

But I was thinking of these match ups...

Autumn Jazz - Blue muffin, no. burgundy
Shasta - Igloo, maresii.... I love the horizontal branching...
Triloba - spring red compact. wentworth

Onondaga is cool, but it is a sargentii....I would need another sargentii ! Let's find twu wuv for those I have. LOL

Thanks, Abigail

Oh & Look what I found.... It sounds as if they miss you!

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/shrubs/msg021358308743.html

Autumn Jazz is no good for Blue Muffin----very late vs. very early=no overlap

Shasta + Igloo + Mariesii=killer combo

Your V. trilobums will work well together too. V. sargentii is a perfectly good cross pollinator for the V. trilobum and V. opulus types as I wrote above. 'Onondaga' would work fine.

see that, another loop, triloba, sargenii & opulus.... Just such exceptions to make it more difficult. Ha...

Thanks for the info on Blue Muffin... I will probably post one more, Cuz there is no telling what we'll find around here...

At the nursery these 3 triloba were all full of berries, But that doesn't necessarily mean they pollinated each other. There were probably other varieties around, right? (I may try to seed one that I have)

Mmmm, I'm not sure what to make of all this. I've exactly three V. dentatum clones: Blue Muffin, Autumn Jazz, and Chicago Lustre. The first is on northside of garage, while the latter two are up in a mixed shrub border, about 100' from the Blue Muffin. Only the Blue Muffin and Autumn Jazz have both flowered and fruited this year, with Blue Muffin having copious fruit. Of course, copious to me might be interpreted quite differently to someone who really knows how to maximize fruit production. Am I most likely just seeing the labors of self-pollination by the Muffin Man?

Maackia:

Only your hairdresser knows for sure.

If you didn't document when your arrowwoods bloomed, then you can't really know what may/may not have happened. Don't discount mislabeled plants, too. If you had overlap in bloom times with BluMu and AJ, one may not be as advertised. You didn't say if your ChiLu flowered or not.

If you did NOT have overlap in bloom times, then situation B arises. Either there are unknown off-campus suitors out there in Eau Claire, or BluMu is doing some selfing.

Selfing is not impossible, just not satisfactory (for great fruit production, on most viburnums I'm familiar with).

Send us copious pictures; we'll be the judge of that.

And my hairdresser isn't talking. Oh the secrets he/she could tell. The Chicago Lustre did not, I repeat, did not flower this year. It was planted last summer and doesn't seem to like (perhaps tolerate is better) the heat as much as Autumn Jazz. I've got a new mantra: MUST START DOCUMENTING. BTW, expected high today of 102F, with high humidity and heat index of 110. I can't take it anymore!

Whew, it's a scorcher out there. I think I'd rather be up to my waist in snow than go through this. And yes, I'd like some cheese with that whine. After taking a second look, the Autumn Jazz fruiting is at least as heavy as Blue Muffin. It looks as if the birds may just be starting to feast on these.

Autumn Jazz pic. This is a tough plant. It has been trimmed a few times by deer and keeps plugging along.

And the sparse Chicago Lustre. Kind of hard to tell, but no fruit on this one.

I agree. I HATE this weather. And if we don't get more rain very soon I'll hafta be out there in it again, carrying around 5-gallon water buckets for 100+ new trees.

That's why I only grow about a dozen viburnums. They're too wimpy to hold up in our climate without help, except for a few tough ones like the blackhaws.

(Oh -- make my cheese provalone, please!)

Guy S.

Maack--from all I have gathered in my puny little mind, that just can't be Autumn Jazz. Those berries shouldn't be colored up already, and most especially at the same time as Blue Muffin. You are way north of me, and only Blue Muffin has blue berries, while most of the others are still green. Not a big deal--whatever you have is doing its job in cross pollination. AJ is overrated anyway--other cultivars are way more jazzy in the fall.

Guy likes those weedy oaks that just keep sprouting up all over my property and growing despite the heat and lack of rain. They are showing the characteristics of Buckthorn and Honeysuckle, moreso every day.

Guy,

Carrying water to 100+ new trees using 5-gal. buckets? My back and shoulders started to ache just reading that. My wife buys a supplement for her horses in 3-gal. pails--much easier on this old body that is slowly going to seed. I'm only carrying water to about 30 trees/shrubs that I'm concerned will perish. Of course, that doesn't include the 40+ Blueberry bushes that are starting to show some resentment to this god awful weather.

I LOVE that one!!!

And I admit that many of those buckets get hauled around in an old ATV. But they still need to be filled and loaded, and often carried the last 50 feet or so where the topography won't let me drive the buggy (and those carries always seem to be uphill!). I'm hoping for rain in the next day or two so I won't have to do it in this weather again (shudder!).

Then I'll also have to water the 500 small trees in the nursery, but at least that's done with a hose. Most guys dream of beautiful women -- my dreams usually involve one of two subjects: making pacts with the King of the deer to have his hoards eat and rub only the Lonicera and Elaeagnus; and having someone bring a reliable, limitless water source out here. At this point they both seem about equally likely to occur in my lifetime . . .

Guy S.

Guy:

You forgot to add: in both directions.



Last The Princess Bride reference:

I do not envy you the headache you will have when you awake. Until then, rest well and dream of large women.

Maackia:

Dittoes again on Kneevin; that's got to be something other than AJ. Mine don't even have blue fruit yet, and I'm about three zones warmer than you. Do you remember where you got it? Your BluMu looks like it should; so does the ChiLu. All those should overlap for you, once the ChiLu gets its bloom on.

And the saga continues...

V2, Don't stop! Esp when they open the door so wide. :>) Ken

No, I don't remember where I got it. I can't find the tag for it either. He!!, I can't even remember what I had for lunch. Must be the heat frying my brain. Either that or the copious amount of pot I smoked at UW-La Crosse in the mid 70's.

This post died a premature death (probably along with too many '70s brain cells).

I have re-evaluated Maackia's befuddled fruiting, and have come to the following conclusion about his arrowwoods three:

BluMu is BluMu; foliage, et al, all seems right.
AJ is not AJ; wouldn't have mature fruit at date shown and leaves are not right.
ChiLu is not ChiLu; it looks just right for AJ, though.

Maybe...you've got plants that were labeled wrong. When you start documenting next year, see if your alleged AJ doesn't perform in the window when a real ChiLu is supposed to (early to mid) in the grand sequence. Also note if your ChiLu impersonator comes into bloom about last of the bunch, when AJ does its thing.

Otherwise, get a bunch more arrowwoods from trusty sources and quit your fruit fretting.