Composting questions for curious cultivars of compacted crud

Hi again, our server has been down for two weeks so have not been able to keep up with this thread but tonight I will sit down and read each post to catch up....as I glanced along just now I noticed Sue being teased about using a tumbling composter....I just drove from Orofino ID to Hermiston WA (5 hours of heat) to pick up my Aunt's tumbler that she has given me....I thought I was pretty darn lucky 'cause it's a beauty. Now I'm wondering? I just paid for two loads of cow feed yard soil from this last winter and piled it to start using in the composter...OH,OH...I'm a novice to this...my first year of living here as well as just setting up my garden for next spring...Little tiny area we had in CA didn't let me garden much other than a few planters...now we have acreage of clay....This is a pic of my little bit of gardening this year......last doofus question: can I put Rhubarb leaves in my compost? How about Castor Bean leaves? You guys are all great and I envy you your experience....but this way, I get to learn from the "COMPOSTING MASTERS"...............Thank you, Deb

Welcome Deb! You live in a beautiful spot. Where is orofino? Must be down by Ketchum. Very nice. I always compost my rhubarb leaves after drying them out to get the calcium oxylates out of them before I put them in with my compost where the dogs could get them. Otherwise good compost material, I have never composted the castor beans and know that they are toxic. Our friend Kenton has them and climbs up to visit the Giant all the time.

yes the tumbler is a running joke with Soferdig and i :) i do think the idea of a tumbler is good and it just needs the right ratio of layers.
Hi Steve and Kenton. I have a quetion for you guys
How do i lower my Ph , i think my veg garden is struggling ,main crop is tomotos, watermelon,beans and herbs, oh and eggplant. I was told that coffer grounds are good at lowering Ph?
Been busy with the kids and my teen has a new job that i m the taxi driver ,
thanks
sue

Orofino is 40 miles north east of Lewiston and about a 100 miles south of Spokane....sorta right in the western/middle of the state where Oregon/Washington borders meet up with Idaho..town of 3,000 people/mostly forestry & hunting/fishing area on the Clearwater River & Dvorshak Dam.....I was growing Castor Beans until a thread on this site under "Garden Pests" talked about using it to poison deer. There is no way I would do something like that so out they come....The picture of your "8 year ago Problem Area" gave me some wonderful inspiration as to what to do with my little current gardening area once all my container gardening is moved to the back yard when the permanent beds are ready. This pic is of the area I'm speaking of....Am I wasting my time with the tumbler? the ingredients really do look very good and cooking....the feedyard manure mix I put in the tumbler tonight had mushrooms growing in it...I won't bother you again until I read all these posts.....the answers will be in there, I'm sure...Thank you for the help...Deb

Depsi, Nice to see your pictures. How do you water your containers of plants. I don't see any hoses lying about. I expect your climate is similar to mine and i have to irrigate constantly. I only have containers on my deck with drippers on a timer and in the back of house in my bonsai patiio, where also drippers on a timer.

Donna

Deb you are never bothering us with composting questions. If we didn't have the same question we would run out of things to talk about. Look at this compost site and you will see where we have run out of composting things. LOL http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/584779/ First of all I would do a raised bed there in that location being carefull to mix the old clay with the new ammendment on top down as deep as you can. Then make sure your plow is in front of the bed because guys with a snow plow love to wreck beds. I always place a large rock or two in front to wreck their plow. See this. http://davesgarden.com/journal/d/t/Soferdig/1717/ Now go down to Dec 1, 2005 and you will see the Idea. Your tumbler is great and I only pick on Sue (Taynors) because she would not let me have it.
Sue Ph can be lowered many ways TEMPORARILY unless you keep working on it all the time. Vegetables love neutral PH and not acid so I would question your decision. Compost, peat, pine needles, amonium sulfate fertilizer, coffee (lots), and other materials will lower ph. But the ph of the soil in your area should be acidic anyway. I would think you would need lime to neutralize the soil. Just a guess. Hey how bout that composter I have built a rock platform and run electric out to it so just waiting on your decision to send it to me.

I think i am confused on the acidic and the sweet part of soil comp. My soil is 7.8 on the ph from the sample i sent in so is that sweet or acidic . ? is the higher number acidic, yes i know ask Mr. Ohio state Agronomy LOL you know those Buckeyes and how they are LOL, he gets bored with my garden talk unless it is a turf question.
I think i m going to not add anything this fall, then start a new area and add my compost pile to the new area.
I did buy some lime for my Lilacs but it is in the barn somewhere and i can't find it?? LOL
Still working on the tumbler it does a great job mixing soil for me and making compost tea. Can't part with it yet Steve :)
sue

Yes Sue that is alkaline Ph above 7.0 = alkaline Below 7.0 acidic. I thought all rained areas that have drainage were acidic. I did not know that even plants did not want to live near OSU. I am doubtful that is your ph. Where did you send it and where did you dig your soil. If it was near concrete or had concrete washed off in it it might be that way. Sweeten = raise ph, Acid low ph. Sweet soil = 6 to 7.5ph would be my guess.

Steve, thank you for that look thru your homesite. What an inspiration!! The plow you see in my picture is from the 1950's and was hidden under a bunch of undergrowth so we pulled it out & placed it as garden art in tribute to this area....the gentleman who owned all of the property we are on was an Idaho State Senator back then. I just hope I can do some justice to this piece of land. So far I think we have made good headway on the Star Thistle and lots of plans for retaining walls, etc and hopefully, many beautiful plants. Now for a question: When do I know my compost is ready to spread? Is it the texture? We have a "Eko Compost" plant in Lewiston and I have been to it. the compost is beautiful but very fine textured....does anyone have any thoughts on Eko? Thank you again for your guidance....Deb

compost is ready when it looks ready and smells ready. Dark and rich smelling. It tastes like......... LOL

I sent it to a lab, can't remember the name off hand, but i did put a pic of the results on an old thread you had , Kento gave me some help with it.
The dirt is from my garden, I dug 6-8" down in several spots mixed it all together sent it in, here are the results.
I did learn tomato s like a soil about 5.5-7.5 ph, i do think i have a phosphorus defincy going on with my tomatos , ?? anyway . Also learned i m watering to much!!! huh? thanks for all the help :))))) yeah apparently some plants don't like it LOL
best
sue

You must have lots of lime in your soil with the Calcium at 74% of your mineral. Though I don't know what normals are. I think I shall google soil tests.

CULTURAL PRACTICES BY TEST SITE

NORTHWEST BUCYRUS WOOSTER GREENVILLE CIRCLEVILLE
COUNTY WOOD CRAWFORD WAYNE DARKE PICKAWAY
PREVIOUS CROP Soybean Soybean Soybean Soybean Soybean
SOIL TYPE Hoytville Blount Canfield Kokomo Ockley
TILLAGE No-till No-till Conventional No-till No-till
PLANT DATE Oct. 1 Oct. 5 Sept. 30 Sept. 28 Oct. 4
SOIL pH 6.5 6.6 6.8 6.1 6.5
Soil Test P (ppm) 34 32 46 37 31
Soil Test K (ppm) 196 111 162 123 136
FERTILIZER (N,P,K) 120-46-61 90-0-0 124-60-160 118-69-60 117-78-90
HERBICIDES APPLIED Stinger Harmony Extra Harmony Extra Harmony Extra
HARVEST DATE July 7 July 8 July 9 July 11 July 5
This is what I found for Ohio all were acidic across your state. I don't know why yours is so alkaline.

Hi Soferdig.

I've been watching this thread. Where did you go to get that soil report? I'd like to read up on soil around here.

Kristi

Maybe the Llama poop made it more alkaline???
we do eat alot of eggs!!
good idea , didn't cross my mind to google it :)
sue

ok steve
i google it and came up with add Aluminum sulfate to lower the ph. Can i do that now? while i still have plants in ? it didn't get to detailed on application. :) it did however have the chart on per lb per sq ft chart and not to get it on the leaves.
well no wonder my peppers are not doing to well in the garden and better in the front yard LOL
thanks for the help Dr. Dirt LOL :)
sue

Yes that is what I said above but it is a short time acidifier. If you are using it on the veggie go for it. Though I think any inorganic is not good for the soil. Lots of compost especially with pine needles will acidify in time. Is it Aluminum sulfate or Amonium Sulfate. I think Amonium. I just googled "soil tests Ohio"

woops Aluminium not amonia had cleaning the house on my mind LOL, I don't have pine needls, hmm well i will have to way out the cost too, on a budget .
sue

My personal opinion (my nazi-esque one:) ignore pH and add compost. Plants can grow in pH 4 or 8.5 if the nutrients are available via organic matter...
Bottom line: Compost. Use it.

Compost your toxic plants: these organic toxins were made from harmless nutrients (by plants) and will go back to being harmless when your compost monster eats them.

A quick note from Kenton,
who is suffering a severe bout of "Hardwood Envy" in Carbondale IL
(Any DGer out there between here and Champaign/Urbana, then Hannibal and back to Denver? I'd like to meet someone who composts/gardens in the hot/sticky midwest. Or any DGer.

Kenton
I didn't understand a word you said??
So what are you asking ? i guess what i m a saying is " can you put that in Laymans terms for us DG'rs wha aint thinking to clear the last decade or two ( speaking for myself only ) LOL, are you seeking a trip to the midwest ??
best
sue

I'm in Carbondale, IL. I'm going up to Urbana. Then to Hannibal. Then to CO. If any DGer lives near these places, I would like to meet them.

I also have an amazing talent of being terrible at comunicating.

Sorry, Sue, Your town is a bit too far out of the way to get home in time. But One summer soon, I want to get out your way and farther. How is your compost pile these days?
K

Thank you sue for the translation. I thought he was being vulgar and looking for a woman. I am trapped up here in Alaska in 50 F and a steady drizzel for 5 days.

So did i LOL :) that is why i asked LOL
Hey Kenton which Urbana ? In Ohio? I m very close to there. 12 miles ,what and or who are you visiting in Urbana or just driving through ? Never heard of Hannibal, read the book though. LOL.
MY pile i just turned and am letting the bugs take their turn nuturing it .
I have to say good- bye to a beutiful tree due to a fungus that has attacked it.
"Hey" Kenton didn't you want me to show you how to kill a willlow tree?? mine is still dead ,just sitting and waiting for it to be chopped, we are probly going to do it in the fall
Steve 50 sounds pretty good to me right now LOL here it is 90 wtih 80% humidity, Dd was out pulling weeds for me today, aaahhhh the power of $$$ to get a teen to do what you want muahahahahhaha
best
sue

This continual down pour over the gulf of Alaska is making the plants up here happy. I hope for some break in the weather to go up on the mountain and see the sedums and cow parsnips in bloom. Right now I would be taking my life in my hands with hypothermia if I did it now. I have been driving to work with the heater going morning and eve.

Now in Champaign (Next to Urbana IL) and have made arrangements to meet a mutual friend of ours Sunday, Steve.
Hannibal as in where a different writer used to cal home: Mark Twain.
Willows and are are Love-Hate. Hate the buggy fast-growing short-lived monsters but love the industrail quantities of compost material they make in the fall.

Has anyone noticed compost going faster with this nearly-nationwide heat? I miss my piles...

Steve, I visited a winery today, saw some creative T-shirts and thought of you.
"I got Black and Blue at Pheasant Hollow Winery" (I'm sending two bottles of "Black and Blue" berry wine home to my dear mother for taking care of my garden!)
K

Question to all:
Have you ever lost anything in your compost?

Don't complain Steve. Enjoy the cold before you get home to fry.

I don't work on Pheasants so I have never been beat up by them. Though a Trumpter Swan kicked my butt when I tried to xray a broken bone. The front of the wing is stronger than Cassius Clay. I was stung like a bee.
Its a good mother who cares for her sons garden of eden. I would overnight those bottles so she can keep motivated on the irrigation. My garden is under the fearfull trust of timers and soakers. I hope all is well. I expect my compost to be 1/2 the volume when I get home. You talked about the intermediary compost being questionable. What are the concerns in premature compost utilization?

Two-day select shipping.

Alrighty. Ever noticed how when you have seedlnigs come up on the exteroir of your compost pile (and you obviously don't turn them in) that they do well for a short time, then go chlorotic, damp off, or otherwise die? The pH, chemical composistion and temperature is going haywire as it self-destructs in there. The roots don't like that. When I have taken compost hot (120+) and amended with it and planted immediately, I have seen that the plants shock badly sometimes. Thermophiles and roots do not like the same conditions. A cooking pile is a mish-mash of nutrients- some patches (unbroken things: orange peel, raw glob of grass) have high (and root-fatal) concentrations of nutrients. Those nutrients must disperse and even out in the cooking process. I also get thie idea from the varying and conflicting reports of the pH of cooking compost. All that nutrient being tossed around wildly in a bacteria drunken bender...

A person also reads not to bury raw compsot materials in a bed right next to plant roots.

Then again, I may be sitting on my head and typing with my toes and all of this is bumf.
I wish I had some cold rain now. Send me some, eh?
K
"Announcing Steve Soferdig's new action movie: The Swan that Bonked me"

I am not complaining. I just want to see the beautiful mountains while I'm up here. This place is breath-taking and so far it is yuuuuuuukkkkkkkyyyyy.

On contemplation of raw compost amending, I have a clearer way of thinking:
half-done, cooking, raw or otherwise chemically-unbalanced compost is great to amend with, with two exeptions:

-Potentially thermophilic compost (half dry leaves and half grass, for instance) will heat up too hot for good, friendly soil organisms.
-Keep it from touching roots. Major decomp and roots don't like the same things. (Imagine the fermenting juice from a grapefruit seeping into a petunia's rootball, for instance)

Or does anyone think I'm dead wrong? I might be.
K

Hey guys, do me a favor please. Check out the thread I just started here http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/629301/ and help me out. I have a mess and am ready to cry...but am afraid the tears would just add to my drainage problems!

I always felt that even "hot" compost when mixed in with soil (not top dressed) continues in a slower and cooler decomposition when it hit the dilution factor of a garden bed. Then I feel that it is like slow releasing fertilizer not there for a short time and hangs out to feed for a much longer time. Makes a friendly soil structure for the little squirrmies and feeds them longer. IE more worms, slow nitrogen release, longer soil structure, and insitu composting lets me drink more beer when the sun is shining. I don't have to temp my compost. LOL

And that's not an unnatural process: leaving the roots of plants intact when you remove the rest of the plant (if it's not one that will grow back) is one form of this kind of "hot" composting. Uniformity might just be the enemy of healthy soil.