Rose: Thanks, and 10-4 on planning for next year! I'm doing some pre-planning, too. Kind of gives us something to shoot for.
Big Red: Thanks from you, too. Yeah, I'm glad I decided to do the double row. It works great for the cukes. Those canned snap beans you had in the Veggie Photo section looked great!!
Kent
This message was edited Jul 14, 2006 9:13 PM
Straw Bale Gardening - Part 4
I hear ya Rose! We are not fertilizing enough here ...
Also I put some compost on top of the bales figuring when I watered the nutrients would go into the bale. Not enough, plus bugs really like the compost layer!!! Cucumber beetles and stink bugs live and learn.
Kent, I have a lot of little cukes and tons of blossoms. I know that the cucumbers are mostly water but how do I get them to grow bigger. Seems like they are taking a long time.
I remember growing cukes before and it seemed like they grrew so fast they practically doubled in size every day. That was in soil. Do you suppose I am not fertilzing enough? I normally fertilize about ever 5 or 6 days.
Farmer, I'm near your hometown; my spouse is from Hburg, too.
Most of my bales were a failure, and they were treated exactly the same as my three successful bales. I got the bad bales from Lowes, and I'm pretty sure they had an herbicide or something in them: there was no growth at all despite increased or decreased watering and fertilizing. I've torn them down and used them for weed suppression in the garden perimeter, as I don't want them directly near the veggies.
I'm happy with my successful bales (currently bearing tomatoes, cukes, and squash). But the quality of the straw bales is a really big variable in this method, and I will have to research my bale source very carefully next year if I do this again. It's a wonderful method for those who have poor soil or aren't able to bend much, and I've told lots of people about it. But it does require much more water and fertilizer than traditional gardening (unless your soil's really sandy), and that's something to bear in mind.
Well Kent that is one good-looking bale garden. I'm embarrassed to post my pics against that. And I'm so so jealous of your cucurbit production! Mine have flowers on and some tiny cukes. A zonal difference is what I keep telling myself. Perhaps today is another fertilizer day.
Jnette: Don't know what the secret is. Once I stopped watering so much and incorporated my Miracle Gro along with my watering, everything including the cukes took off. I have been watering with the Miracle Gro every 3 or 4 days.
alyrics: I'm really glad the cukes are putting out the volume because we were getting low in our pickle supply; fertilize those babies of yours and get them going.
All: Kathy Gilbert, staff writer with the Chattanooga Times Free Press (www.timesfreepress.com), called me the other week about doing a story on bale gardening. Seems like a retired tennis pro living in Chattanooga read an article about my bale gardening in The Practical Gardener and was trying it out for the first time, with good results. It was a pretty good article with only a few, very minor, technical errors. There was nothing in it that we haven't already discussed.
The article was published 7/08/06. The paper must be tight for money because they charge $1.95/article that is downloaded from their archives. You have to register a screen name, give a credit card, all that nonsense. I started not to get it but curiosity got the best of me.
One good thing the writer did was include my quote about going to DG for alot more info, and how DG was a great gardening-info site. She even included the frappr site where we have our "push pins".
Kent, make sure you tell Dave about the article, he likes to know when he gets good press for his garden. :-)
I need to fertilize mine more too. I'm thinking about doing the chicken poo tea that someone was doing.
Melissa: 10-4 on contacting Dave; I sent a note to them/him, too.
Melissa: what is the name of that purple, jalapeno-looking pepper plant you sent? They are good, and hot!! I want to get some more of those next year.
I picked another 6 gallon bucket full of cucumbers tonight. I am so glad I put the cukes in a double row of bales. It makes it so much easier to pick them without having to step onto the vines. The vines run nicely down the sides and then out onto the newspaper.
Next year I'm putting down cardboard instead of newspaper. The cardboard will stand up better when I step on it, stay moist longer, and generally work better, I believe.
My bride is still busy with the last batch of pickles plus putting up blueberry pie filling. She picked a 5 gallon bucket full over the weekend from a friends blueberry bushes.
We're expecting 98-100 degree temps for the next couple of days. We'll see how everything holds up.
Kent, my cukes are finally getting some size to them. About 6 inches long. But they are slicers. What is the difference between slicers and cukes for pickles? Not the Gerkins, or the chips, just the dills?
That is very interesting about the cardboard Kent. I put down newspapers under the mulch in my perennial bed. I even put down chicken wire for the moles. LOL. But it isn't funny 'cause those little guys found a couple of places where I missed with the wire and now I have hills in my mulch. Anyway, the newspapers were to keep the weeds down. I am not done yet, but I have some cardboard I have been waiting to send to the landfill. Think I will use that instead of the newspaper.
Any help out there for getting rid of the moles? I have heard of a lot of stuff but don't know any that work.
We are expecting 100 degrees this weekend too. What do you think about draping plastic over the bales? Just a thought.
Jeanette
Photo update:
Another:
One more:
Jeanette: I let the cukes just about max out to get as much "meat" as possible. Once my wife peels them and cuts out the seeds, cuts the cuke in bite-size chunks, and pickles the chunks.
As far as the moles, the best thing I ever had was a little, mountain feist dog, that loved to dig out the moles. She could smell them and pinpoint pretty close where they were in their tunnels. Then she'd dig away until she got her quarry.
Not sure about the plastic. Sounds like it would help retain some moisture but I don't know how much heat would build up under it.
Well established plants should weather the heat with a good daily watering. My cukes, squash, and tomatoes seem to be doing fine from one nightly watering to another.
Salem: very nice, compact garden. Your corn made me miss my SILVER QUEEN that I was raised on and love so much.
Yeah Kent, I have a huge Malmute Husky that goes after these moles and unfortunately they come up right in the middle of my perennial flower bed. I had to put chicken wire down to keep them both out.
Kent,
Those are Chinese 5 peppers :-) They change color as you leave them on the plant.
They turn from purple to cream to yellow to orange to red. It's an heirloom, so you can save seeds from it to plant next year, since I know we're getting you hooked on seed starting and heirlooms the way you hooked us on bale growing. :-)
I guess I may be doing something similiar to strawbales, ala Ruth Stout... just planting in a thick layer of mulch. I admit they are behind on getting some fertilizer but that will change in 2-3 days. I'm getting ready to add a dozen or so butternut squash, some parsnips and hopefully some leeks. Photos in a few days.
Melissa: thanks for the pepper info; I'm really falling for this particular plant
All: Here's a pic of my okra test bale. 4 to 5 hills looks about right for 1 bale as far as space goes.
I've been surprised at how firm they are standing in the bales. I had to spray a couple of times with liquid Sevin to keep the Japanese Beetles away.
Of course, we haven't had a bad thunderstorm with alot of wind yet. I've been so busy with other "stuff" like my daughter's softball games, etc, that I haven't staked the okra or any of my peppers. I'll probably end up regretting my procrastination.
Beautimus!
My dad would be proud of your okry.
He cuts it and dusts it in corn meal and freezes it in plastic bags. You can put it right into a pan for frying or into soups etc. How do you put it up?
alyrics: I haven't acquired a taste for okra, but my bride loves it fried. I haven't grown enough over the years to put any up, just enough to make a mess for frying.
Fertilizing change: I'm going to buy one of those feeders that you can dump a whole bag of Miracle Gro in and attach to your hose. I'm tired of dipping a 2 gallon bucket into a 16 gallon wash tub and walking back and forth.
Speaking of Miracle Gro, I need to go ahead and buy some stock in the company! :-)
Kent, have you tried the new liquid MG in the bottles that has the special applicator? I bought some a couple of months ago and was just thinking I might get it out and try it. Think this is a good time to do it.
Jeanette
Jeanette: I think that's what I have in mind but I need to get to Lowes or Home Depot to check it out. Regardless, it will still be better than dippin' & pourin'.
KR
I fertilized yesterday. I use Peters. It's the granulated kind that you mix with water. I mix it by the gallon and pour it straight onto the top of the bale. Two gallons per bale. My cherry tomatoes are finally starting to ripen. The squash are blooming like gangbusters but I can't see any fruit yet. I have some nice eggplants on my one eggplant bush. I have pretty well written the peppers off even though they are still blooming.
We had about a ten minute wind burst a few minutes ago and it looks like I will have to pick two of my tomato plants up. They are the two I did not have caged. I planted them the day we left for La. and when I got back they were too big to cage. I will have to stake them. I have planted a few of the heirlooms I got from the swap. They are small but looking pretty good for the neglect they suffered. One is actually blooming already. Tough little birds.
I'll post some more pics as soon as I take some. I am really enjoying the pics you all are sending.
Kent: Suggestion for you - perhaps for next year if not this - Check out foodforeveryone.org and/or the Mitteleider Group in Yahoo Groups - If buy some of their pre-packaged nutrients - add them as directed to a bag of triple 15 fertilizer - along with some 20 mule team borax, and epsom salts - and make yourself up a batch of their "weekly feed" formula - you can sprinkle it atop your bales - and then just water as needed - it will wash in - it will save you a ton of $$$ over Miracle Gro or Peters - and work wonderfully: It is designed to provide the nutrients to grow in a medium made up of sawdust and sand with daily waterings - The entire formula is on their site and comes with the nutrient package - which if I remember right is sufficient to make up 120 lbs of fetilizer for about 10 bucks - that'll do a lot of bales a sprinkle at a time:
ps: I tried a plain old hay bale - it seems to work just fine - the only weed I am getting from it is one little purslane plant - and even tho I started very late I am now getting ripe cherry tomatoes -
Perry: thanks for that good info. I will definitely check those sources out.
I just bought the cheaper version of Miracle Gro's watering system where you put in the powder in the resevoir and water until it is used up. I looked at the their liquid feed system with the bottles but it only comes with 2 bottles and Home Depot didn't seem to have any extra bottles.
And by the way, welcome back! You've been laying low for some time.
Kent
I use a solar mole repeller. It produces a sonic vibration every 30 seconds - works for 1 week on 1 day of sun light. I have seen some good results with this. It is $33 and the number is 1-800-499-6757. I am planning on getting another one - covers up to 7500 sq ft.
Does anyone know of an organic way to get rid of hornets/yellow jackets? I have a nest in my hay in the barn & I need to move last years hay to make room for my next crop.
Does anyone know of a good liquid organic fertilizer besides fish emulsion?
My garden is coming along - I planted late so just beginning to get squash & zucchini.
Farming,
Here's a hornet/yellow jacket trap that appears easy to make from PVC: http://www.pvcworkshop.com/gardenprojects.htm
JimboTN
I ordered some of those nutrients from the "food for everyone" group last night. I also ordered some stuff from Spray-n-Grow that they guarantee to get rid of the moles. I will try both of these things.
I have one of those sonic things I plug in to my wall and I used to have hoards of stink bugs. Haven't had any since. If the stuff from SnG doesn't work, that will be my next try. Thank you all.
Thanks Perry
Jnette: You should know that when you use the Mitteleider weekly feed mix - you are going to have some granules that remain on top of your bales which will not disolve - these are the "inert" materials from the fertilizer - You should also figure out based upon the formula provided how much to use - I treat each bale as an strip of the 18" growing bed they use and then work from there depending on how long the strip of bales is - You will notice it doesn't take much - something like a cup to a 30' row - each week - there is a lot of "cups" in a 40 lb bag of fertilizer............ perry
I have been reading through these Strawbale Forums, and it's a totally new idea to me, I also saw the map of where you all are, in view of the variations in climate do you think this might work in Central Florida, I just love the idea of not going down and hands and knees, and also keeping it compact. I would like to try with just a couple of bales and see what comes through, but I am concerned about snakes etc getting in the bales - any suggestions.
Wow, spend a little time offline and there's so much to applaud all of you for in here!
Kent, the newspaper mulch looks great, and I can imagine cardboard would do at least as well. One question for folks to know about before laying newprint down the garden row: does your local newspaper print with soy-based inks yet, rather than the "toxic traditional" oil-and-solvent based inks? I've worked a press and I know what I wouldn't want near my garden.
Melanie, those peppers are GORGEOUS and I need to grow some. Saving pepper seeds is a tricky proposition, since they're insect pollinated and genomes will get mixed around. I saved some seeds from the first pepper to flower and fruit this year, but will be happy to purchase seed just for peppers next year.
Thanks to everyone for the slug deterrent info - my dad's spread of hostas got eaten up by box elder beetles (!) this year, alas! I'm off to see if there's a pest deterrance forum where I can ask what folks know.
Perry, I'll look into the Mitteleider information; we're using Dr. Earth every week to ten days, and are getting lots of green tomatoes - the first Purple Cherokee are beginning to turn interesting colors, and we're nibbling pear tomatoes aleady, and Anticipating, with watering mouths.
Our zukes were growing one a day for a while, took a little break around the new moon, interestingly enough, and are back at it producing rapidly.
I've put a bunch of photos up over at my flickr account; this week's big wow is the Mammoth Grey sunflower opening up, after weeks of height contests with the chocolate cannas next to it; the one that's over by a tripod of runner beans is over 10 feet and hasn't set a flower head yet. Do you suppose it's "racing" skyward inspired or competing with the neighbor's redwood tree next door? http://flickr.com/photos/rtds/
Staking the tomatoes as they grow is proving to be an exercise in silly construction: as the 6' poles get buried in foliage, I've added in some art-booth bits I'm not using this season, and gladly accepted a few 10' bamboo poles from a local freecycler, and a couple of free yardsticks for cross-braces from the local hardware store... Next year, I think I'll work out my staking a little earlier, but it's a glad sight!
Some of our bales are now rhomboid, some trapezoidal, as they tip a little, decomposing.
On 100° heat and plastic: I wouldn't: we found waiting until the first flush of composting quieted down to around 100° or less before planting into the bales; wrapping in plastic would likely do more increasing-heat harm than keeping-in-moisture good during this heat wave, I think.
welcome, seemama! I think the bales would work well for you in Florida, and I can vouch having a raised bed you don't have to crawl around or stoop to so much is SO nice to work in. Everyone is making up however they want to stack things (rows this way or that; just stand them up so the strings are around the bale and off the ground so the straw is vertical); we put ours together with long edges next to long edges, and reach over from either side, and this works well, except where we left a couple of inches between and that's the bale getting slug-eaten. If you tuck them right up next to one another whichever way you choose to line them up, nobody will have room to wiggle between.
Thanks RuTemple, I just had a look at your pics, absolutely delightful, Love the poppies and petunias, in CA you must have similar climate to Fl. I am going to give it a try with some flowers first, then see how they grow....now to find hay bales!
Ruth: good comment about using soy-based ink newspapers; just so happens, my local paper changed out all of their printing presses a few years back and went with the soy-based inks; I hadn't thought about that until you mentioned it.
I just got in from weaving some tomato vines through my trellis's and tying up a few here and there. I've convinced myself that this is the last year I will be staking tomatoes. I only did a few but this is going to be it.
Kent
Thanks for the heads up Perry. It will be interesting. I try everything that comes down the pike. LOL. Anyway, I am sure I will be getting back to you.
What do you mean Kent? Are you going to just grow the compact, can't think of the word, hope it isn't the big A , LOL,
Or are you just going to let them ramble? I really don't think I would like that. I went to a field one year and picked tomatoes that way and it was really tough finding all of them. Worse than picking cucumbers.
Maybe the answer is to cut off all of the suckers like a lot of people do.
Jeanette
Yes Kent - what do you mean about not tying up tomatoes?
It would be interesting to me to find out if there are certain varieties that are easier to work with - without tying up. Next year I have to find yet another place to grow tomatoes - this year's won't be available again.
Jnette & alyrics: clarification:
I will be using trellis's ONLY in growing tomatoes; no more pounding in stakes, having to tie each tomato to individual stakes, etc; besides, with the bales, the tomatoes end up growing way over the top of the stakes I have and then flop back down and break; I don't have the tall stakes like Big Red.
My in-line trellis and the arch trellis are working like a charm. I couldn't be happier. I still have to tie some branches in, but no where near what I'd have to do with the stakes.
Speaking of staking, I already envision using a tight-rope type line between two posts for my pepper row next year. That will give me enough tension to tie each pepper plant to the line instead of worrying about staking the peppers.
The peppers are really loading up on the plants, the straw is getting softer, and the first good wind storm will blow them over.
The following 6 photos were taken this morning.
In-line trellis. Will probably add another one next year. Have I mentioned that I am very happy with this method? :-)
I suckered the tomatoes at first then let them run.
You can't tell from the photo, but there are quite a few green tomatoes growing. These tomatoes were from my 2nd planting, so they are coming in a little later than normal.
Arch trellis.
These tomatoes were also from my 2nd planting. They started out sickly, just like the first planting, until I figured out my watering/fertilizing problem. I believe they would be completely over the top if I had started out strong with them.
Contemplating another arch trellis next year with some running beans or something; I think it's kind of neat walking through a living tunnel, so to speak.
Staked heirloom tomatoes; 1 stake per tomato; lots of ties; broken stems
Peppers; loaded to the max; folks at work are loving me right now.
But with the bales getting softer, peppers getting taller and heavier, one little windstorm will break some, or at the minimum blow them over and probably damage the root system.
Can you believe I haven't sprayed these with any pesticides?
