Variegated Norway Maple

The species seems to get more bad press than our president of late, but only one is deserving. I won't speak to the invasive tendency it has in some areas of the country, but I'm a sucker for its beautiful foliage. It may be a foolish pleasure, but if a native tree icon can grow Albizia without remorse, I'm not going to fret about it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/maackia/Woody%20Stuff/HPIM3080.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/maackia/Woody%20Stuff/HPIM3083.jpg

Now wait till it is 40' tall and half green, half variegated, in all its reversion glory. I drive by one of these every so often and see that kind of look--not pretty.

Maackia, I can't get into your second link. I've seen a lot of them reverting, either from below the graft or via true reversion (windshield survays along the highway at WARP speed make it tough to tell the difference!).

I do grow Albizia without remorse because it barely survives our winters here and doesn't seem able to reproduce. But I would never plant it farther south, and I give a lot of attention to monitoring. Both of these genera (Acer and Albizia) are like Koelreuteria in that they reproduce via heavy wind-borne seed, so nearby areas can be checked periodically for any signs of recruitment. This is different from the ones that reproduce via birds (Pyrus, Lonicera) or via very light seed (Populus) that can travel a mile or more.

The most responsible practice is to use local-provenance natives only. Anything beyond that requires a commitment to monitor and manage. Most of us on this forum are such incurable gardeners/collectors that we do tend to push that envelope, hopefully with the necessary understandings and precautions. Of course, we always have our conscience Equil to give us an occasional needed pep-talk if we start to get starry-eyed over some new Kudzu-like thing!

Guy S.

I've seen that too, Kevin, and it does look hideous. But I've also seen many large specimens where reversion is not present. I'm guessing/hoping that if I'm alert to the situation and remove promptly this won't be a serious problem to contend with. I think many (most?) people pay little attention to their trees and are willing to live with the reversion, and probably don't consider it a big deal. Heck, I suspect some think it's an interesting novelty.

The bad press Norway Maples and all of their cultivars get is warranted. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaackia, don't give in to the temptaion. Resist I tell you, resist the temptation.

Sigh, everyone can have a lapse from reality so don't let the native tree icon's growing of Albizia influence your decision. He needs to be whipped with 20 wet noodles for growing that THING!

Guy, I now realize that you explained your reasoning for keeping the Albizia to me before and I'm sorry for dragging you into the debate.

Equil, It's too late...I planted them a few years ago. Norway Maple is on the WI DNR invasive plant list and I suppose I should be whipped for planting them. I do promise to be vigilant in monitoring for any seedlings and if found will promptly begin feeling guilty. Just kidding...I'm going to remove them just as soon as I can muster the the will and time. Until then, I'm going to enjoy them.

Ummm, Maackia... we're teasing each other back and forth so no worries. It's been going on for a while which is why he has everyone who stops in to visit photograph that Albizia "speshully" for me.

I've got a few things that I'm a little too late on over here too. It happens. Most have been removed but there area few stragglers. I've got a Bradford Pear that my husband wants to keep around for a little bit longer because it shades him when he uses the barbecue. I do finally get to nuke it this fall and that's only because my husband saw a bunch of these trees go down in the most recent high winds. Amazing what one pays attention to when one has a nag for a wife. He did finally concede that I had a valid point about the THING and that he didn't want me to get rich collecting off his life insurance if it comes down on his head while he's flipping burgers. I should take a photo of my THING that is all of about 15' away from my house. My husband's mom bought me a gift of a nice Rose Of Sharon and it's right by the main entrance to my home. That sure was making a statement at my house for all of my friends to see. I was able to get my husband to agree that was not a well behaved plant because he found the seedlings everywhere and was annoyed by them. It is now dead as of this spring and I will stand there when she asks what happened and shrug my shoulders holding my handy dandy little spritz bottle behind my back. Will wonders never cease. Speaking of which, I'd like a nice flowering tree for that spot. Something that doesn't get much more than 10' and doesn't have an expansive spread. I'm looking at crabapples. Any other suggestions? I do need to get that dead tree out of there as it is an eyesore.

I know you two banter back and forth about this in good fun, I just felt like a dope since Guy had explained this to me within the last 2-3 months. Oh well, I can barely remember my appointments from yesterday.

Regarding your need for a small tree, I'm sure you know the comments will be that keeping a tree at 10' with limited spread is not too likely. My BIL has Korean Lilac on a standard near their home entrance that looks good and smells great. Certainly not everyone's cup of tea, but works in the right spot. I've got a Viburnum prunifolium worked into a little tree that is kind of neat. Plus, it passes the native son test. Might get too big for your limitations, though . I'm sure others will have plenty of ideas for you.

Wonder what's out there that I could hack down to the size I need for that incredibly restrictive space? I like lilacs. I've also been considering a Japanese Maple. I'm easy, I'll consider anything as long as it doesn't create more work for me around here.

I just got back from going shopping to look for something. I didn't find anything that jumped out at me and said buy me for that spot but a few things did jump in my cart-
-Physocarpus 'Center Glow', very attractive plant with wonderful marmalade coloration. I wasn't familiar with that plant but it sure is attractive and there was no way to resist buying two of those.
-Hydrangea serrata 'Bluebird', wild blooms on this that screamed to me to plant them somewhere over here. I bought two of those and have no idea where I am going to put them
-Hydrangea paniculata 'Pee Gee', I felt the need to buy one of these too for some reason. Nice big shrub though and I like the way the flowers are green when it is grown in the shade.
Hydrangea quercifolia, I always wanted another one of these.

I still need something for the area where I nuked that Rose of Sharon.

Enjoy those 'Bluebird' blooms this year, as they will be few and far between forevermore. In the most protected spot I had at my old house, I saw maybe 10 blooms in 5 years. Possibilities for the nuked zone:

http://www.lakecountynursery.com/ovation.htm

or

http://www.lakecountynursery.com/guardian.htm

or

http://www.gardennj.com/viburnum.htm

or...............

How much room do we have to work with(height and width)?

I can go up about 10-12' but can't go wider than 5 or 6'. I like the 'Summer Snowflake'. Can I prune that up about 1-2'?

Since you're not restricting your choice to natives, how about something odd, like Xanthoceras or Decaisnea?

Or, I hear they're coming up soon with a compact, fastigiate, super-hardy Albizia . . .

Guy S.

You CAN prune Summer Snowflake up a foot or two, but why?

Oops, fell asleep at around 7:30 and just woke up. Here's hoping I can go back to sleep or it's going to be a loooooooong day today.

I need to prune it up because my kids planted underneath where the Rose of Sharon was. Additionally, my MIL bought me some plants and they are in that area also.

The Xanthoceras sorbifolium is very attractive but I thought that was more of a plant for shade or an eastern exposure? The plant I nuked is to the right of the main front door to the house in that protected courtyard and that area gets a full 10-11 hours of direct sun. Western exposure. There's a small decorative pond there so I need to make sure what ever I plant there doesn't leaves or fruit that are poisonous.

No, I'm not limited to NA natives exclusively. I looked up Decaisnea. I'm not familiar with that at all but I really liked the look of the blooms on Decaisnea fargesii. http://www.bouman102.info/Decaisnea%20fargesii%20%20bloei.jpg as well as the seed
http://www.bouman102.info/Decaisnea%20fargesii%20%20vruchten.jpg
http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/potd/2005/10/decaisnea_insignis.php
I also found a Decaisnea insignis which looks equally attractive. Where does one buy either of these? I'm not familiar at all with this genus and I don't think I've ever seen it for sale anywhere. By the looks of what I've seen so far, my top contenders are the 'Summer Snowflake' and this Decaisnea.

Incidentally, this new and improved compact, fastigiate, super-hardy Albizia is out of the running. You've been here... I have more than my fair share of garbage plants to keep clearing out and recently I am getting Barberry that is popping up everywhere. I hate that thorny barberry that tears my shirts and scratches the heck out of my arms.

Maackia, I seldom remember from one day to the next who has said what on the forums, and all this Albizia stuff is just banter anyway, so fuggedabowdit! Sorry your thread seems to have been hijacked.

Equil, I think Xanthoceras does well in full sun, at least here in our collection. Decaisnea fargesii might need a little winter protection up there, I'm not sure, but you also could grow it as a dieback shrub if you wish. You might have to mail-order either one from someplace like ForestFarm. There are many other choices too, I just threw those out to stimulate thought.

So your kid is planted under the Hibiscus, huh? So THAT'S where you hide the bodies -- under the plants! I'll remember that when you and your gang of hoodlum bad girls come down here to nuke my Albizia!

Guy S.

A thread has been hijacked (hands on both cheeks with mouth in an open circle like an Edvard Munch scream)! Tell me it ain't so!

I'm still leaning toward the two I mentioned before, the Decaisnea insignis and the 'Summer Snowflake'.

Hmmm, children planted in the ground. I see possibilities here. As in up to their necks or all the way?

As for Summer Snowflake in full sun.....I am finding more and more that these VPT's, as they are known, seem to work far better with some shade, at least in the afternoon. Full sun requires a lot of attention to watering, and even then they dont end up doing as well as part shade plants.

Xanthoceras can grow in full sun, but would get way too big.

Magnolia 'Golden Gift' is supposedly dwarf.

Of course, there are always those evergreen thingies.

How about a Castor plant? Nothing makes more of a statement than a rocking big Castor. I grow them every year. With a bazillion interesting plants here, they always draw the most comments. Cheap, easy, fast growing, impressive. Loves the sun. Try it!

Isn't there an unwritten rule regarding thread hijacking? What would Miss Manners say? Maybe something like after four postings or two days without response its fair game to a takeover. Personally, as long as an attempt (even a weak one) is made to answer OP's question (if there is one) I think it's OK to weave the thread wherever. Now, back to my lovely Norway Maples...

Ummm, summer snowflake doesn't like full sun- eeeeeek!

Kevin, are you referring to Ricinus communis? I just looked it up and it's invasive and it's poisonous-
http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/castorbean.html

Ricinus doesn't have a chance in hell of being invasive here. First frost and it melts. Seeds have never sprouted. As for being poisonous, it is. So are many of the plants we have. Water hemlock will kill you just as fast. Aconitum, Digitalis, Bulblet Hemlock, Cowbane, Bloodroot, Mountain Laurel, Nightshades, and Jack-in-thePulpit. I would be mightily impressed with the child who fought through the spiked seed case to consume the seeds--you can always just cut off the flowers.

This message was edited May 18, 2006 11:15 AM

I've got Water Hemlock here out in the marsh. I've got a few others that are almost as lethal as Water Hemlock. Problem is that where I have to put this plant is right over a 200 gallon decorative pond that generally has frogs and toads visiting frequently if nto hanging out for the season. What ever is on the tree will ultimately fall in the water. The plant allegedly is poisonous to people, animals, and insects. Two toxins present, Ricin and Ricinus communis agglutinin. One of them is supposedly a potent cytotoxin. This plant may not get out of control up north where we are but I don't know if this is the best plant to stick in the ground next to that pond. I just found out that Stein's Nursery has one so if you think it's ok right next to that little pond, I'm game. If not, I think I am going to have to track down a Decaisnea insignis or take a chance on planting a 'Summer Snowflake' there. I suppose I could go for a conifer but I really don't want one there.