The Good=compost Bad=compacted soil Ugly=what you have.

this is my fav, going to enlarge it and fram it, pic doesn't give it the true justice of the colors, but it is pretty i think.
sue

Those look like Autum Blaze Maples not sugar. Are They? Sugar maples love the native acidic soil common to the upper eastern midwest. No need for additives. They add compost every year to their feet in the form of leaves. I think you should go over to the trees and tell them I miss them. I have hauled back 9 sugar maples from the sugar bush I harvested in my childhood. They are now between 12 and 18' high with a diameter of 2 to 3". It will be a while before I can harvest sap. Sue you must tap the sap! Usually in Michigan that was the middle of Feburary early March. You have never had anything so wonderful. Even chocolate. Boil the sap long time over low heat and when sugared pour on snow outside to make sugar candy that your children will never forget.

so how do i find out if they are sugar? they are from the previous owner. how old does the tree have to be for tapping sap? sugar candy sound yummy,
sue

You have sugar maples across the road from you. There are plenty of trees there to tap. The ones you have are 10 years away from tapping. The only way to ID the trees is to list them in trees and Shrubs and ask. Take a whole tree shot and a close up of new spring growth.

hmmm i think we will be gone by the time they are ready to tap LOL, but i will list them in the tree and shrub and see what i can come up with :))))
sue

(Starting awake) Oh, yes. The cool weather does preserve temperamental pigments. Especially purples show up richer, in my observations. The 'Star of Yaltas' around here are near-black when frost is approaching.

Sue, I like your litlte plot. The earth begs to be handled and petted. I agree that you have a severe infestation of turf-grass.

All I know about maples is that there are a lot of them, they are pretty, they do not grow well in my part of Colorado, and most importantly, real maple syrup does not give me headaches like the fake junk. I also know that I love maple leaves for top-dressing, as they are so fine and break down well, feeling like a nice soft blanket.

I've been tearing up weed-patch soil and adding manure. Transplant seedlings are coming up in the old part of the garden in preparation. I have two hot composts with a surplus (too much!!!) grass. They stink almost as bad as teh Dracunculus. I really need a favor from a local tree trimming service: A few cubic yards of grass-absorbing chip.

I have been doing a lot of thinking about soil structure and top-dressing. I have been observing some areas in my garden and otherwise of rich-rich soil with poor structure; the plants are suffering. It is hot and dry now (like it is always, but more than usual) and the dry, bad-structured soil is not absorbing water very well when it is needed.

Certainly the "Bad and the Ugly!" I'm thinking a nice, thick graduated mulch to be scratched into the soil surface, eh Steve?

Freed Kenton

Ahhh your such a wooss. Rent a big rototiller and get it where it needs to get asap then tomorrow your soil is working and all the severed worms (but a few) grow a new appendage. Then millions of worms, salamanders, knewts, funguys, and soil bacterias have a moist wood chip to hang out next to through the drought of you severe low humidity summers. (probably around 6 to 10% Heh?) Now a whole new generation of worms will build a city around where a few of their comrades fell. War is hell.
I get to go home tomorrow to my garden and start on the irrigation set up and start Sailing on the big Lake. Ohhhhhh Boyyyyyyyyy!

lucky bug steve
Ok i know you said don't walk on the soil but my daughter who is three yrs old was helping me dig , finaly got the beds in ,just one more to go,yeah. So anyway she is digging with her pink princess shovel and yells "snake" !!!!!! i jump and see it was only a worm, i showed her how gentle they are and soft. She loves worms !!!! ahahahaha, she sat in the otherbed putting them back in the soil for me , while i shoveled dirt in the beds, then she keeped saying " goodnight worms" "I love you worm" , "be good boy worm" ahahahhaahaha I ask you " how could i deny my child of such a wonderful love for worms?" she must have sat and walked all over that bed reburrying the worms for an hour.
My neihgbor ? the MG one ! yeah her nephew is livnig ith her and he listens to that awful music and was just blasting it, i wouldn't mind so much if he was working while he is listening , but i din't see him anywere!!??? he left!!!!!!! and left the music on!! , So i did what any country , red blooded American girl would do ???? you say?" hahaha i dug up 12 ft of sod!!!! and extended my garden, then i threw it in her yard. Ok that is n't nice ,but i did it anyway, it felt good. I m soo tired. i hurt. ouch it hurts to type . hahaha ouch
The lake sounds good Steve, i do like a good canoe myself , grew up canoeing. Wish i had one.
back to the grind stone
sue

Sue, if you take sod and pile it up grass-side down, before long you will have a pile of beautiful top soil.

i do have a big pile of dirt that is now a big pile of grass, i was wondering what to do wit it??
hmmm might give me an idea, the dust is lifting in the old noggin. LOL
thanks missgarney
sue

I would have had the radio tip over in some water. No one would have known that you had put it there. Well if I were you I would have. You need to teach your daughter about snakes.

the only snakes i have seen is a little black ones that run in front of my tractor, but yes we are going to do that . We always like to go hiking on the trail across the street from us.
sue

I tried that pile the grass upside down thing and if you have any bermuda or crab grass it will keep going - you might want to solarize.....so tonight I am going to try the sediment thing I am curious how my front yard will compare to my back. The front has been neglected, finally took out some grass (upside down thing = bermuda loving the lack of competition) last year meant to amend but plants arrived early so my sasktoons (are they June berries down here?) went staight in, thank god they are not picky eaters.

Sue - I am with you on the canoe or better yet a little row boat with a trolling motor. Bought a power boat couple of years ago and going fast just hurts.

I bought a stick a couple of years ago that has hopes of growing into a sugar maple tree someday - I heard that the trunk has to reach a certain circumference before you can tap...so waiting, waiting...

Drac's to smell bad - I love showing it to people they all say how pretty and lean in to get a whiff and bang....the expressions on their faces.
Nadine

crab grass is hard to get rid of once you have it, My DH treats for crab and not dandylions , so we just spot spray the yard . Our neighbor doesn't do anything , LOTS OF CRAB LOL i looked closely and saw no grass just weeds and the wild grass that looks like wheat, lots of bare spots. She told me today she hired someone to mow her lawn for her, i wish she hired someone to help her lawn!!!!!. .
Kenton i was planting today, dug lots of holes , I can't believe the change in my soil WOW!!!! IT is so easy to work with , and the worms HOOOOOOLLLLY GUACOMOLE handfuls, i love seeing my 3 yr old daughter helping put the worms back down i n the soil and saying "goodnight " to them.hehehehehehehe, tickels me
What is a Drac i think i know but just remind me a Dracnuculus Vig somehting i can't remember. Is that what you are talking aobut Mqn, My DH is in Utah Park City.
Have a nice time on your boat Steve? I think next time my neighnbors play there music again , i will run it over wtih my big truck or bury it with my skidsteer LOL
sue

Love your neighbor as yourself. Love you neighbor as yourself. Unless you absolutely hate yourself. LOL
Canoe is the best way to travel. I start my trip next week down the North Saskatchwan from Rocky Mt house to below Edmonton. I can't wait.
But for now I'll have to suffer and sail in my S2 and lounge around the deck in the sun and watch the mountains slowly pass as I sip my espresso early in the am chewing on my biscotti. Ahhhhh It is good to be home from Alaska in the arms of my DW. (Oh and 2 dogs and 3 cats) Wow has the garden grown in the weeks I have been gone!

lalalalalalalalalalla ( hands over ears) lalalaalalallaalalallalalalal im nooooot listening. lalalalalalalalalalalall LOL :)
Ok Steve can we get back to dirty talk and not your wonderful life on the riviara. LOL:)))))))))))
Oh don't get me wrong i do llove my neighbor, but they are just ........how do i say it nicely, .......... "CRAZY"!!!!. I m glad they are crazy too. it makes life interesting,
I just wish she would do something about her grass, Our realtor said it is realy hurting the sale of our house. I would go and do it myself ( help her weeds become lush grass.) but i don't have the money to do it. I have offered to do it for her, but she keeps telling me " oh my DH is really good at it, he know what he is doing, I like the way he makes it look" uuuhhhhhggggg.How do you rational that, i will see if i can get pics . Maybe i m the crazy one.
Maybe i could write a book " How To Love A Crazy person"
I love my dirt STeve. IT is good soil!!!! I love the feel of it, compared to last yr. I can't wait to get out there today and dig baby dig. Got a sun burn that is wow it hurts. I forgot what sun does to your skin LOL,
sue

Sue - Dracunculus vulgaris - Jamesco/Kenton stated " They stink almost as bad as the Dracunculus" see plant files for pic really pretty and really stinky - only last 1 day though (the smell I mean). So what is DH doing in Park City? I know exactly how you feel, I have a neighbor across the street that pretends to garden, hers is the only house on the street that truly looks unkempt to the point that the fireplace chimney looks like its disengaging itself from the house. The meth heads to the north of me do a better job, go figure. You have not lived until you wake up to the sound of "Shut up you stupid F---ing C--T" oh the joys of meth. Tell you what, if they throw one more empty oxygen tank on top of one of my "sticks" (future trees) I am going to have a major hissy fit.

Soferdig I am SO envious going to my hometown (Edmonton - home of the traffic circles & the Oilers) hope you enjoy your trip - let me know how the dollar exchange is.

The dollar is worth less and less all this fighting in Iraq makes the federal boys and girls print more and more. Its great being a yank. Today I did my honey do list and hooked up all my irrigation. I had to bury 4 water lines in glacial till. (rocks) The only good thing today is my garden was a blessing to be out in and hearing the birds and watching the snakes. I grabbed a garder snake by mistake when I lifted a branch to hook up the irrigation. It was not fun. I have fobias to snakes. But I made a nice rock/stick pile for him/her to live in to take care of the stuff they take care of.
Tomorrow I start to plan and pack and repack to get as little as I need in the boat. Then through Baniff and Jasper to Rocky Mountain House to put in and down to home of the Oilers.

WHile i was out digging and laying my soaker hose , i was wondering what is it that you mean by soil structrure ?? I have a n idea of what it indicates but i was just wondering if i was on the right bunny trail with my knowledge of soil structure. THe textrue is what it is referedde too?
I do have still big hard soil rocks, but htose came in handy laying on my soaker hose and propping up plants that needed a bit of support.
Today is cloudy nd thunderstroms are in the mist. hopefully the winds are not to strong, but did hear my wind chimes going like mad last night , the big gong sound of church bells , that is a sound i do love . Any ideas on breaking down the hard dirt rocks or just let mom nature take it from there and next yr will have less dirt rocks.
sue

Sue, "soil structure" refers to how the various components of your soil are put together. The number and size of air spaces ("pores") in a soil are important determinants. A soil with a good mixture of large and medium pores can be described as well-drained AND moisture-retentive. That's because the larger pores contain air, but are too big to hold on to water. The medium sized ones usually contain water. Clay soil lacks large pores, sandy soil has a bunch.
"Soil type" refers to what components are in the solid parts of the soil. You can't change your soil type (clay, sand, whatever), but you can improve that soil's structure. For example, the structure of clay soil is improved by getting more air spaces into it, usually by adding bulky organic matter like milled pine bark.

What, exactly, are you calling "big hard soil rocks"? Are they what we refer to around here as "clods"? Clods are not rocks, they are big hunks of compacted clay and when I find one as I dig a bed, I chuck it as far into the woods as I can. Small clods I break up as I work in finely milled pine bark and compost. If I chucked ALL the clods, I'd spend a fortune in amendments just filling in the holes.

thank you missgarney
that is great info and i understand it, LOL
yes i believe i was thinking clods.that is what they are clods :)
hmmm one bed is really nice but the other is really cloddy lol.
thunderstorms today ,only got our a few plants and tied some maters so the wind didn't knock them down.
thanks again missgarney
best
sue

Well Missgarney has good enough soil to throw away the clumps I don't. I mix the crushed buggers with 4 to 5 parts compost/pine needles etc to place back in the hole.
I have been out in the garden all day and night got to go cook some food. Steve

was out in the ol garden and noticed my compost bin was swarming with little black flys, never had this before any help please, doesn't smell , is moist , humid days are here. How about it Kenton ? what is a poor girl to do? boo hoo . LOL seriously lots of bugs and i NO LIKEY>
thanks
sue

Sue probably a hatch of some larvae that was birthed right in the good soil to be. Also many bugs feed on the bacterias etc in your compost. Set yourself up a chair on a pedestle and place it on top of the compost and they will worship you for your wonderful garden of eden. Bugs are good. (Most)
PS I think Kenton has a girlfriend cause he is busy all the time now. Probably like all of us in the garden.

This message was edited May 28, 2006 8:48 PM

hee hee ,Lucky girl !!! :)
So the bugs are ok , just annoying . gotcha.
My parents are comming in for a viist, well you know he is the compost KING, remember he mails me little ziplocks of his black gold LOL, he is a tease.
FOund a wasp nest in my tumbler, yikes a really big one too, size of my fist!!! which i cant' understand, since my tumbler is empty my son loves to turn the thing an make it go around an around very entertaining for him LOL, What were those wasps thinking ???
got my raised beds filled with my soil, . I ma in the processs of laying in soaker hoses, and then read in a thread a complealy easire way, uuuhhhgggg i wish i saw that last week, LOL
sue

Make sure you tell your father there is a MSU Spartan who make good black gold too. I now have layered soaked and cooking 2 compost beds about 2 cubic yrds each. Oh lots of bugs buzzing over those too. The birds are dive bombing all day and the bats all night to feast on the 3 bug pizza. Say HI to Papa. Steve


This message was edited May 29, 2006 10:29 PM

will do, Steve lol
I m going to add bat houses to our fence line and the upper part corner of our house, kids should find it fun to look for bats,
We actually had a bat on the side of our house hanging ,right by our front door ? ! it was really cool. I love bats one of my fav creatures.
I really need to try to get a compost cooking , i just don't htink i have enough layering going on?
sue

Back when I was searching for the right stuff with which to make alfalfa tea, one or two of you may remember that I ended up with a big cube (about 14lbs) of chopped dehydrated alfalfa hay. Since it wasn't quite the thing, I chucked it into the compost tumbler and let it sit. When I opened it up a week or so later, it nearly knocked me over exuding a HOT miasma of what smelled like pure ammonia, I kid you not. I thought I was going to pass out. It's still quite warm and ammonia-smelling, but it's cooked WAY down and is now in the form of baseball-sized dark brown hairy-looking globules. It's too wet. I have a problem maintaining a good moisture content in the tumbler.

You guys need to add saw dust or wood chips that have dried in the sun or add you contents to drums after the heat starts. Also I would hang any additions on a dehydrator like screen to take out some of the moisture. When Grasses are wet they are 60+ % moisture, when dry and crinkly they are still up to 10%. Lots of water going in. I collect my kitchen scraps and hold the moisture but if I wanted it out I would buy a small plastic bin and drill holes in the bottom and raise the bottom with some wire to let the moisture drip out. Another thing I wanted to do when Sue sent me her composter was to use wood pellets for wood stoves in it to see how well that worked to soak up the accumulated tea. Oh thats right I'm never going to see that composter.

Sue what method did you find thats easier then soaker hoses? Very curious. I am hoping to get my bat house up one of these years (sigh) right now I have it in a plastic bag that I have poured bat gauno fertilizer into. So the smell can soak into the cedar. Read somewhere that it would help attract them.

We have had 90 degree weather most of May, long weekend comes up and we get hail - whats up with that? OK who made God mad?

Nadine

The Oilers are in the finals YIPPEE! Guess he is not that mad;+}

Wow. My computer breaks down and look at the Dramas I miss!

The Dracunculus was grand. then we had some terrific sind that tore it out. I am rather bummed. It was my favorite plant (established. Big boy. Pictures of it when I can) but the neighbor told me that she is not sad for its loss. She was too dense to realize that I didn't find that funny.

Meth is terrible, indeed. I had only recenltly met a gent whose wife took off with a drug ring. She left him with the three kids. It is extremely heartbreaking. She left him wihtout his license, with back disabilities (reduces his hirability) and three children who rush to the trailer window each time a car drives by and yell "Mommy! Mommy! Mommy?"

Nadine, may I ask why you moved down from that cold, cold city?

Steve, Enjoy your excursion. I loved Banff and Kamloops and all those grand places.

Sue, our dear MissGarney is right on. I am just beginning to appreciate the goodness of "clods." And tell us what this easy soaker hose thing is.

Steve, I gave up girls in favor of my garden. I left a British belly dancer because I missed my carrot patch!

I have a few nice compost pictures, but alas, no computer at present to use for it. I found that office paper sheds make a good carbon-foil for an ammonia-smelling too-green pile.

I need to get home!
Kenton

well ok here it is
I was digging the trenches to lay my soaker hoses in, well in 90 degree and 100 % humidity i said uuuugghgh enough, it was taking me way to looooong . I was on another site and someone said this is what they use, lay the soaker hoses with garden staples !!!!!!!! and then they lay over black garden clothe, cut a x and then lay in the plant. hmmmmmmm i said sound easy enough, she also said easy clean up, pull up hoses and throw away clothe. Ok so it isn't maybe to enviornmental safe or considered organic BUT I AIN'T GOT ME NO MAN!!!!!!!!! LOL
Steve i saw a pile of wood chips on the road, they just took out some trees and left the wood chios on the sidewalk , i think i will go get them, what do you think?? termites ??
MQN my DH is in Park City UTah working he said it got a bit chilly and a bit of snow?!
missG i too find it hard to get a proper moisture , i always have it to wet, i don't have enough carbon i guess , maybe next yr, when i can get some leaves to help out, i don't read enough newpaper. LOL
sue

What could be drier than chopped dehydrated hay?

OK sue grab em! you know I stole every chipped pile I could find for over 6 years here in the Flathead Valley. I used them in my woodland garden and covered them with manure from the piles of manure I stole here in the valley. It makes great woodland soil!
Missgarney good idea but it still could be 15 to 20% moisture?

( Rocky music theme) da da da da daaaaa dum dum dum daaaaa , and there she goes off and running to the wood chip pile folks.
sue

I've had a too-green pile (The big indicator is the bovine bile smell that he neighbors are talking about) and got tired of it. I called a tree-trimming arborist who has the sharpest chipper/shredder in town. Now I have three cubic yards of the best carbon rich material you could ask for!

Sue, the chips are just what you need! Wood chips are worth a gob in carbon, so one part chips will absorb three parts or more of green grass clippings. (And thus take longer to break down, which means "Time release compost.") Chips are more carbon rich by far than straw or dry leaves. Plus, woodchips are ideal mulch and structure-lifters.

Steve, I'm doing the layer thing this year in large new areas. Thin layer of chip, layer of grass...

Has anyone tried taking a few lengths of old hosing and drilling appropriate holes in it for a (muddy) irrigation-water-safe soaker hose? The idea is starting to look as I am gettin gtired of dragging hoses around.

Kenton

Are you concerned about soaker hoses OTC? Mine last forever and I never knew any toxic breakdown of Recycled tires. The rubber is so stable that mine are up to 8 yrs old and still function as if they were new. No bad chemistry happening here.

I had soaker hoses once. They must have been crummy ones, because after a year they just didn't seem to work any more, as if all the holes were blocked up. I gave up on them and never bought any more.

The sediments in our irrigation water will clog a soaker. Sorry, no brawny ideas like blasting it out with high pressure water will work!
K

We have high concentrations of calcium carbonate (lime) is high in my water supply and dries on everything it can but all my soaker hoses are buried in Mulch or soil and the acidity of this breakdown will suck (chelate) the alkaline accumulations. Therefore bury your hoses and if you have salts I suggest running Amonium Sulfate fertilizer through them. I have a fertilizer dispenser from Miracle Grow that I put my Powdered (rolled fertilizer with rocks in a cement mixer) to make the pellet a powder. This mixes rapidly in the swirling dispenser to acidify the water. Just a thought. That has worked for my alkaline water. I would use another acid IE vinegar, Muriatic acid, or acetic acid from a fruit source. Just thinking and waiting for a response to this. Personally the acidic production of compost, bark, and other carbon breakdown cause Carbonic acid (I think) that eats calcium carbonate.