Thank you, Lily. I have two other shady corners I want to deal with eventually..,I guess anything I can't sqeeze in this spot I can think about for some of the other areas. I did look for that ginger today, but didn't see it. I'll have to look up the other plants you mentioned.
Doss, yes, that does look much fuller in only a month...looks very nice. Here in Maine the growing season is a few short months, so I guess I am a tad impatient...though I understand that nothing is instant in gardening. I thought the perennials we planted last year along the side of the house looked ok when we first put them in - this year they are already twice the size of last year. Still, I don't think I have the patience to plan for something, say, nine years down the line.. Life is short, and the summer in Maine ever shorter so I want it to look halfway decent now! lol. I was looking for ferns today and thought they looked particularly puny at the nursery. Also, I was surprised to see that some Heucheras were in little tiny pots with only a few leafs popping up, when another, different, Heuchera would be right next to it in a gallon container, blooming, and looking pretty much like a mature plant to me.
Don't tell me the slugs love the ligularia, too. Even BEFORE we put real plants in, we had a problem with slugs...we seem to have just the environment they love. Man, I can't stand them.
Anyway, I went and measured the bed. On the left, it measures 4 feet from the base of the big rock to the front of the bed. On the right, it's about 7 feet...I'm guessing the height of the rock is 4 feet, and from left to right the whole bed is about 16 feet...sort of shaped like a teardrop, I guess.
This message was edited May 23, 2006 9:57 PM
This message was edited May 23, 2006 10:03 PM
Need ideas for a shady bed
Is that a birch to the far right?. If it is I think that a third birch tree in the smaller space is the way to go rather than a maple. I might even be so bold as to suggest that you get rid of the yew. Three birch trees there will balance the setting. You don't need to put it smack in the middle of the right hand space though. I'm a birch person. But they do compete for root space pretty badly. Once that structure is in then you can work from the back. You will want to keep the plantings low and simple I think if you want to show off the wall.
I think that a combination of astilbes for airy height - they come in sizes from 6" to 3 feet and more. Sizes almost always include the flower - Perhaps a string of 5 foliage plants across the 17 feet - perhaps two hostas in front and three ligularias in back. Then you can fill in with heucheras, small ferns and smaller astilbes and ground cover and the other plants that have been mentioned here. The hostas will take some time to fill in so you could use the ground cover or smaller hostas and ground cover or shade plants to take up the space. You can use them in your other shady areas later.
My nursery will let me return plants. Buy some and put them in their places in the spot and see what you think. I have a hard time until I actually see things laid out to tell you the truth.
Now we have the Left side done you can tackle the right side in the same way. You've got a good start.
And just so you know. I may have ordered too many plants for you. I do tend to overdo.
I'm working on that bare fence in the photo. I've taken a long term approach and bought some climbing hydrangeas that only grow a foot a year. At this point they will cover the fence in about 5 more years. Silly but I can't resist a rare plant.
Yes, that is a smaller birch on the right. And you can't see it in the pictures, but there are two small birches on the top of the rock, and three more to the right of the bed. So, this corner of the yard has a fair amount of birch trees. The problem with adding one to the bed is that birch trees are really pretty boring looking (IMO) until the bark turns white...which means the tree has to be old. We've been here five years now, and the trees have been here since before we moved in and they are still very young looking. Also, I think it would be difficult to put any shrub in there that has a sizable root ball, because that rock is effectively under everything. We had to build a raised bed and add dirt to get around the rock issue. The trees and shrubs that are growing on top of that rock must have started from little seeds up there, because no way can you dig a hole deep enough to accomodate anything...somehow, the plants and trees up there managed to find what they need to survive.
It's nice to know that you also need to take things home and look at them in the space...I know that would be enormously helpful to me.
Oh, about taking out the yew. I know, I'm not crazy about the placement of it, to be honest. And it seems to have grown tremendously in the past year (probably because we unburied it and exposed it to light for the first time, ever!) My husband will hate the idea of taking it out...he hates removing any sort of tree or sapling. On the side of our house there is a dead cedar of some sort that is getting deader every day. I keep telling him that it is an eyesore to the neighborhood and that we need to cut it down. He just rolls his eyes at this, so I think if I tell him we need to move the yew, I'm not gonna get a lot of cooperation.
LOL so you are trying to plant on soil that is as hard as a rock and you're trying to work with a husband whose head is as hard as a rock. (apologies to DH but I couldn't help myself).
If the ground isn't good then you won't want a JM. How did you plant the hostas?
Sounds as if you are going to need to work with smaller plants.
At any rate, the plan still works without the tree. You get the idea.
Yeah, I really need to pick and choose my battles with the landscaping stuff. He always appreciates how things look after the fact, but it's like pulling teeth sometimes to get cooperation along the way.
After we built up that little stone wall in the front, we had to add rock free soil to plant anything.(my husband did a great job on the stone wall...I would just randomly toss some rocks down there) So, my FIL came over and brought us some good dirt, to which he added compost and something to make it less acid, I believe. It is deep enough to accomodate the hosta roots...I'd say it's about a gallon deep in most places. The hostas seem happy with it. Below that you will hit rocks. You can axe thru them, for the most part, but it is exhausting. Our yard is ridiculously rocky. When we moved in, it was even worse, and we actually spread dirt over everything and *tried* to plant grass. The rocks still manage to rise to the surface, and I've now totally given up on the idea that we'll ever be able to have the kind of lush lawn that we always had when I was a kid.
Heh, but you have gorgeous rocks! I can understand that you'd like a lawn though.
It really helps to have this information when you are thinking of what to plant.
Well, the little ones that spring up all over the yard aren't so gorgeous. I remember being a little kid and being able to walk barefoot in the lawn...but then, I didn't grow up in New England, lol.
A lot of people around here have similar large rocky growths...some people have done some very nice landscaping around them, too. I've been trying to pay closer attention to them as I drive around. Although, most of the ones I'm seeing are in the sun, so they may have more options.
Look at shade as an opportunity. You can grow plants there that just won't tolerate shade. If you want flowers there, annuals are very happy to grow in shallow soil.
Try going through Big Dipper Farm's catalog. You can sort on full shade or partial shade and they will give you the zones for each of the plants. You can get a lot of good ideas that way.
http://www.bigdipperfarm.com/catalog.htm
Sorry about the rocks popping up everywhere. That must be awful. I didn't know that they floated!
Doss, thanks, that link was very helpful and I bookmarked it. Well, I took the plunge...I just went out and bought some plants that appealed to me and stuck 'em in the ground. I'm sure I crammed way too much in there, and I know some things are temporary and will need to be moved. A woman at the nursery talked me into a big blue hosta, which I gotta say I really like the look of in there- but I have a hunch it will get way to big down the road. May have to look for a more medium-large blue one, eventually. I filled in around that with some coleus and some little painted ferns, which I found very cheap at my local hardware store.
I did, on impulse, buy some peachy colored heuchera...It probably doesn't fit in, but what can I say, I love peachy salmon pink and wasn't finding and flowering shade plants with that color. However I learned today on Dave's that the more colorful Heucheras do better in full sun- oh well! I saw some pretty columbines today that I may end up replacing those with, eventually.
Ok, here are the updated pictures- please, no snickering if I violated any hard and fast rules of gardening (which I'm absolutely SURE I did). This is my first foray into this stuff, so cut me some slack- lol.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/colleenseamus/garden/IMG_0687.jpg
I put a Vera Jameson sedum in this corner, and also stuck some stonecrop sedum in the nooks in the wall...I THINK there is just enough sun hitting this corner to support it. The rest of the bed is dappled to full shade, I would say. In front of the big green hosta I put Labrador violets..they don't show up well in the pics, but in real like I think they look very nice.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/colleenseamus/garden/IMG_0686.jpg
view from the other side...notice the undeveloped pocket on the top right, along the stone wall...need to do something with that space after I clear out the rocks.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/colleenseamus/garden/IMG_0693.jpg
This is "purple petticoats" Heuchera with "Lady in Red" Lady ferns behind it...I really liked the red stems of this fern, and I think it will like nice behind the Heuchera as they get bigger
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/colleenseamus/garden/heuchera.jpg
The shady corner opposite the corner of the bed...I need to do something here, too. Under a maple, full shade
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/colleenseamus/garden/IMG_0691.jpg
the blue hosta with the painted ferns and coleus. I liked the color of the coleus behind there, and couldn't think of anything else to try there. The astilbes on the right are white (Bridal Veil). Oh, I have a round hypertufa container that I was thinking about setting in that little space at the base of the birch...still figuring that out.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/colleenseamus/garden/ferns.jpg
You have done a great job. And if you've overplanted it's not a big deal. You have a lot of other places to move the plants when they grow into each other. I think that you are right about your blue hosta though. :-) I like the pale heuchera - nice contrast. I hope that this brainstorming was helpful rather than not. It sure was fun. You will have no trouble at all doing the bed to the right and the top of the wall. You might want to move the big hosta over under the maple tree and pick a slightly smaller hosta for the center of that bed. Does it have a name label on it? I'd be happy to research it for you if you have the name. Those deep blue hostas are certainly beautiful.
I'm really impressed by what you've done in such a short time.
Doss, thank you for saying so. I worked on it all weekend, pretty much. Have to enjoy it now while the mosquitos aren't too bad. When they arrive I'll no doubt be enjoying my new garden from my bedroom window only, lol.
The blue hosta is Big Daddy. Sounds...big, lol. I looked it up and am finiding conflicting info about the size. I've seen 36-60 inches wide. I had a heart attack when I went over to my inlaws house and noticed their GIGANTIC blue hostas. They must have been 5-6 feet wide with leaves like elephant ears. They don't remember the name, but I'm thinking they might be Blue Mammoth? At any rate, I want something blue and biggish in there, just not enormous. I don't think I want the gigantic elephant ear leaves, either. I like the puckered, cupped look. So if you can think of another one that would suit, let me know. We have three Regal Splendors growing along the side of the house that we planted last summer that are quite big this year. The bed we made for them I believe is too narrow and those should really be replaced with a more compact hosta. I might think about moving those to this area. A blue hosta would look great by the maple since there is lots of room and shade. Yeah, the whole yard has plenty of shade and places to move things to, if need be.
Here is a pic of the other corner of the yard that I'll work on, eventually. Where the rock sits is all lily of the valley. I'm planning on doing a mass planting of ferns to the left of that. Behind the LOTV is another interesting rocky ledge.
And this thread has been very helpful, so thank you very much!
another question-
Mulch or not? The woman at the nursery said to only put down compost as mulch in a shade garden...is that correct or should I throw some dark bark mulch on there?
You have so many great opportunities to grow beautiful shade plants. Wow! With your talent I can't wait for all of these spaces to turn into beautiful gardens.
I think that I would ask on the Hosta forum about what hosta would fit your space. I did find a few in poking around but I'm not really a hosta person. I've only recently started buying them. Big Daddy is supposed to be a slow grower though.
Abiqua Drinking Gourd - great puckered and supposedly medium.
http://www.directsourcehostas.com/Abiqua_Drinking_Gourd.html
Blue Dimples (says from 24 - 48) or Blue Wedgewood
or Brother Ronald (you'll have to get a photo from the hosta library
http://www.bridgewoodgardens.com/WEB%20PICTURES/BLUE%20DIMPLES.html
http://www.bridgewoodgardens.com/HOSTA%20CATALOG%20F.htm
If you don't mulch you'll have terrible weeds and moisture loss - but from what I've learned, don't mulch up to the base of the plant as it can encourage crown rot.
This message was edited May 31, 2006 8:56 AM
I think it looks really nice. Not too much variety, not too little variety, good colors that somehow bring out the colors of the rocks as well. Really, really nice.
On the mulch, do you mean ground bark mulch or bark chunks? I agree that compost is best - it looks the most natural, and it seamlessly melts into the dirt over time. Ground bark isn't too bad, since it at least doesn't leave huge chunks peppering your dirt until the end of time. :) Bark chunks, IMO, are way too much trouble - they basically never decay, you have to push them aside to plant things, they prevent your ground cover from spreading, etc.
Burnet
I use shredded bark around my plants because I don't want things spreading or sprouting and because it keeps my dogs from getting muddy. But if those aren't a problem for you then compost is probably better for your plants. I never mulch right up to the hostas though because of crown rot.
Thanks, Burnet. Hmm, I guess I was thinking bark chunks...never knew that there was such thing as shredded or ground bark. I think the stuff we have used along the side of the house is considered "chunks", although they are not huge. I'll have to looks at the bags. I did wonder how the mulch allowed (or didn't allow) ground covers to spread. I'd like those Labrador violets to spread out and cover some area. I do see little tiny weeds popping up here and there, though. That will still happen if I just go with compost, right? And how thick a layer of compost are we talking about? Believe it or not, the dogs have not ventured in there at all since I got if filled in.
I spent some time clearing out that little pocket at the top/side of the rock. That's actually a good size space up there. Man, do we have rocks, rocks, and more rocks.
Doss, I like that Abiqua Drinking Gourd , and also found one called "Love Pat" which may be good, too. The blue hostas really bring out the lichen that is all over the rock.
Love Pat is very nice too and a moderate size.
Yup, you'll have weeds pretty much no matter what you mulch with - and in my opinion mulching with compost makes it a lot easier to weed, because my weeding tool isn't always getting tangled up with bark chunks, I'm not always accidentally burying the bark chunks, and so on.
Using compost as mulch does probably mean that I have to buy more mulch - if I have a really weed-infested area I don't even bother pushing the compost-mulch back, I just hack at the weeds and allow the compost to mix with the soil in the process, then come back and re-mulch later. But I consider this a somewhat good thing, since the compost is improving the soil.
It's also sort of handy, when planting, to have a good soil amendment already lying all over the ground. :) It means that if I impatiently want to plant something Right Now and the soil in the hole is in need of some improvement, I can mix in some of the nearby mulch and, again, re-mulch later.
As for depth, my goal is about three inches, though I seldom actually achieve that, because I keep running out.
Burnet
Wow! I would run out too. That's a lot of compost and I'm envious. I have the gorilla hair (shredded bark) about 2-3 inches thick where the dogs go primarily, then I put it around plants as they are planted and if I have the time and energy I like to put new down every couple years. I'd do it every year but it's expensive and time consuming.
Oh - no need to be envious; it's commercial compost. :) Not the good homemade stuff. Never in a million years would I be able to make that much compost.
Burnet
Oh,and do be careful where you get you compost. I don't get my community garden compost because I have no idea what's in there!
My FIL actually has a veritable mountain of homemade compost on his property , so that is readily available to me, if I want it (and best of all, free)
Possibly a dumb beginner question, but is it ever possible to have too much compost in a location? (mixed in with the soil before planting and then, say, 2 inches or so on top?)
As long as it's well aged compost and you aren't worried about flowering. Sometimes compost in that amount can put too much nitrogen into the soil for flowering plants, but hostas like higher nitrogen fertilizers apparently so it shouldn't be a problem. I'm no expert on compost though!
I just wanted to update this thread with some new pictures...I'm absolutely amazed at how fast some things have grown since the first pictures I posted. Thanks again for all the input. I love this forum...I am learning a lot.
My favorite grouping...those lady in red ferns were one of the fastest to grow.
I also really love the hakonechloa (sp?) grass when the evening sun hits it..
Wow! You have done very well. It looks like one of those decorator pot gardens. I just say Hakone grass. I've given up on spelling it.
I love the ferns in the back. I do wish that I had access to large hostas the way you do. It makes a huge difference.
You've done a wonderful job with the textures and mixing plants. I'm SO glad that you updated the thread.
Doss, thank you- I'm really happy with the way it all turned out. I'm honestly really dreading the onset of the long Maine winter already...our green season here is just too short!
I know I'll probably have to move some things out to a new location next Spring...have a few areas to get ready for that. The only thing I'm really worried about making it thru the winter is the Hakone grass. (the one in the picture is "alba striata", I think- I also have some all green hakone grass in another spot) I've been reading conflicting things about the zone hardiness, so I guess I will just have to cross my fingers!
The other thing that grew super fast is that hosta in the front with the white flower- "Diana Remembered."
You will have to move some of the plants out but as I remember you have a few other places to landscape. In the meantime it is stunning. I tend to over-plant too. But you've done wonders!
Life (and summer) is too short to have lots of open space around plants! lol. Ok, maybe that's not a great strategy, but I am enjoying the full look in the meantime. And yes, I do have other shade area to expand to.
Do hostas ever really stop growing? I was wondering about the green hostas that my FIL gave us, that are situated on the left and right sides of the bed. I imagine they are at least several years old, and was wondering if they would get bigger still...they fit in there so perfectly right now, I hope they don't get too much bigger. No idea what the name of those is...they are just kind of all purpose green hostas with lavendar flowers(lots of scapes coming up right now on those)
Each hosta has it's own size from inches wide to 6 feet or more. Each cultivar is different but my understanding is that, in good conditions, they reach their full size in 3-5 years. "Diana Remembered", for instance should get approximately 15" tall and 3 feet wide. Luckily hostas are pretty forgiving about being moved and so are ferns, hellebores........ The weirdest thing is that hostas are measured by height so it's pretty hard to find the width. Some of them are pretty upright and some spreading so you really have to do some research to find the width of them. I'm pretty new to hostas and it's confounded me.
I know, it is very confusing....you can also look up a certain hosta and find different size info at different websites. Also, sometimes the spacing guidelines you see on the plant tags doesn't seem to correlate with what your online research tells you about mature size, you know? But I am glad that they don't mind being moved...I've moved several around this summer. I had three Regal Splendors planted in a way too narrow border along the side of the house last summer. They are gorgeous and huge this year, so I moved them all to new locations and they never missed a beat.
Noreaster,
I've been silently lurking, watching your shade garden progress. It is totally a work of art for a beginner like yourself! Cudos to you!
If it isn't too much bother, would you mind providing a list of the plants you have in that garden? I recognize some, but the list would be most helpful to another "beginner." I see elements and plants I'd like to incorporate in my own shade garden and knowing what I'm looking at sure would help. Thanks! The list doesn't need to have the botanical names, either. Just the everyday common names, please. I'm nowhere near understanding that stuff!
Thanks, Gymgirl.
I have two unamed medium sized green hostas in there on the left and right sides, along with the Diana Remembered hosta and a Big Daddy hosta(which is probably gonna have to be replaced with a smaller blue, eventually). The tall green ferns are "Lady in Red lady ferns, and the small ferns are painted ferns. Some sort of lime coleus behind the Big Daddy hosta...Bridal Veil astilbe on the right. The alba striata(?) Hakone grass on the top. Also have a Wide Brim and Frances Williams hosta up on top, and a ghost fern. The heucheras are Gypsy Dancer in the pot, Peach Melba, and Purple Petticoats. All those are continually blooming, which I love since the little light flowers show up well against the dark rock. On the sunnier left side of the bed I have Vera Jameson sedum and a liatrus (that shouldn't be in there..kind of crammed and doesn't get quite enough sun, I think).
Basically, what I found that I needed to do was just take a chance and buy stuff that appealed to me. I bought a few things and arranged them, and then got ideas from here and other places about what to add...
This message was edited Aug 9, 2006 10:02 PM
There is a great book that you could probably borrow from your library. I used it to help me with new beds and it recommended some real winners. It is, Perennial Combinations: Stunning Combinations That Make Your Garden Look Fantastic Right from the Start. I loved this book so much I went out and bought it.
CCHASE,
I GOT MY BOOK! YEA!!!!!!!!!!
Noreaster,
How's that flowerbed looking? Post some new pics so we can see how it's progressing. Thanks!
Gymgirl, I am just seeing your message. The yard and garden is kind of much a mess right now since I've been so busy with other things. I think it pretty much looks the same...except that the sedum has bloomed and the coleus has gotten even bigger. The heuchera in the container ("gypsy dancer" ) has been blooming all summer...I guess I need to think about taking that out of the pot and putting it into the ground so that it survives to next year?
In other news, one of the three Cimicifugas (sp?) that I planted late in the Spring has grown well and is gearing up to bloom. I got one at one nursery, and two at a different place...the two from the second nursery have not grown so much as an inch, I swear. I hope those two do better next year...
I just suscribed to this forum, so I may be too late, but most of my garden has lots of shade so I
often go for the effect of mottled or distinctive leaves rather than showy flowers. I have had good luck with Pulmonaria and Japanese Painted Fern, Heuchera, Lady's Mantle, European Wild Ginger, Bleeding Heart (both common and hybrid), Jacob's Ladder, Lenten Rose, Geranium(cranesbill), Tiarella and Japanese Anenome in areas with just a few hours sun.
I do like hostas for shade, but deer like them even better, and I don't want to erect high fences to protect them. Netting and deer repellent help a little, and thank goodness hostas do come back next year even if they have lost most of their leaves.
This message was edited Sep 17, 2006 9:34 AM
Wow Noreaster - what a fantastic improvement. Well done!
You are an inspiration. Just loved the before and after.
justfurkids Carol