Cutting not getting any roots??? Help!

Sounds like a good idea to me ;^)

It is funny that you should mention this about sand. Recently, over at PlumeriaPals there has been much discussion about this very topic, and some of the members shared their methods, some of which were very elaborate. It is a good idea, but in my opinion, it is not necessary. The bottoms of the containers will heat up quite nicely while sitting directly on the heat pad. I have been able to root thin, green, and small cuttings this way in winter! This is something that I have never been able to do in the past, and it would not have been possible without the heat pad. All you need is hot/warm moist soil and frequent misting to keep the cutting hydrated -- how you get there is up to you.

Heat mat...heat pad as in a heating pad for people?? Would this be a safe thing to use??

Hi Bev, the heating pad for people is not really meant for this type of use and may actually be more expensive in terms of electricity, but I think several growers do adapt it for plant use. The traditional heating mat for propagation is what I was referring to -- see my links above.

I have had great success in 2 Liter soda bottles (the upper 2/3 cut off, of course), and straight perlite. I put these in the greenhouse. I can see condensation on the sides of the bottle reminding me not to water. I use this method with expensive cuttings I don't wish to lose.

You can also put more than one cutting in this size bottle. I have done 2-3 at a time this way.

Brad

I have an Aztec Gold that I bought of e-bay. The cutting was a bit green but otherwise looked okay. I potted using the pea gravel method and the stem near the pea gravel shrunk and hardened off. It is not soft and the part of the plant below the gravel looks okay. The tip of this plant looks healthy and I see small formations of leaves. Do I have a problem? Or should I just let the cutting grow? Other cuttings under the same Arizona sun look fine and did not exhibit this shrinking.

This message was edited May 23, 2006 2:14 PM

kdkral,
You might need to start your question as a new post - more responses that way. The others may suggest your having to cut that above the shriveled area. Wait and see what they say - and again maybe start this as a new post.
Good luck to you!
Chantell

Kdkral, Chantell is right: you have stem burn there from the pea gravel -- exactly why I don't use pea gravel on the top of my plumies. That brown part is dead all the way through, and the bottom probably can't be encouraged to sprout new branches because it needs several eyes above the soil, but you can save the top portion. Cut off above the brown part until you see clean white wood, dip in rooting hormone, let the end callous and heal for a week, and then replant in well-draining soil with no pea gravel. See the FAQ's on how to root cuttings.

Clare. I will try what you say and not use the pea gravel. BTW the FAQ has a link to Plumeria101 which shows this pea gravel method. It seemed like a good way to keep the cuttings from moving while they are rooting. Other cuttings are doing fine with the pea gravel. I think this cutting was too green. My neighbor says you should scrape the cutting, then put it in the pot. Have you ever heard of this?

Hi Kdkral, you are quite right that the Plumeria101 does say to use pea gravel on top! Yikes! I do not recommend it at all because you can't see when the soil is dry and needs watering and because people have reported burns on their plumerias from it! Now that I think about it, more than one of these reports are from growers in Arizona. You guys have a fiercely hot sun there, don't you? I would nix the pea gravel and use a stake instead if you need to keep the plumie upright until it is rooted. You are also right that the green wood is more subject to sunburn than the hard wood. Your neighbor knows that roots come from the cambium, but scraping is not a good idea, in my opinion, because you can damage the cambium and cause rot. Roots naturally come from the swollen cambium at the very bottom of the cutting, not from the sides. The bottom should be calloused over before it is planted for rooting purposes. Here are some cuttings that were water-rooted below. It shows the start of roots.

Good idea to post that pic Clare - so funny that unless you've seen them you have no idea what those little corn-like things are...LOL

I have a small bamboo patch that I thin out every spring to use as stakes.
Every plumie I own has a bamboo stake to help it stay firm in the wind.
I also add about 3 inches of stone to the bottom of the pot to help stabilize them.

LOL, Chantell. I am gang rooting a bunch of cuttings right now. I have 20 of them sitting in a community pot on top of potting soil. It was my friend Kukiat's suggestion, and it is working great!

Michael, think of the money that you save on bamboo stakes! Good idea, Mate! I'm glad you mentioned that about the bottom of the pot. I too have used stones in the bottom of the pot in the past to help with drainage and to weigh the pot down.

Clare - "on top" of the soil? I'm a visual learner, unfortunately...can you explain or post a pic? Or do you mean literally laying the cut end on top of the soil? Having one of my many duh moments here...LOL

Hi Chantell, The cuttings are grouped together and standing upright, vertically, on top of potting soil. The cut ends are standing on about three inches of potting soil. They stay upright because there are 20 of them in one two-gallon pot. Jim Little has some pictures of group rooting in his book. If you don't have it yet, you will want to get it if only for the pictures.

Perfectly clear now!!! Thank you...and yes, been thinking I "need" to get that book!!

Get the Eggenberger book also they are both excellent!!
I had posted a question regarding a rae plumie and Dr. Richard Criley Himself e-mailed me privatly to answer and help! Twice! I thought that was soo cool!!

Michael, I really want to get the Eggenberger book also, but it is around $50! I'm going to have to wait for that one. That was really cool of Dr. Richard Criley.

So how do I determine that roots are present, assuming I have already put the cuttings into gallon pots to start? Two seem to have roots, and two don't. I put them outside and they seem to be doing a bit better, and perhaps just beginning to start leaves, but they don't seem to have roots.

Andidandi, it takes 60-90 days in good hot weather for a cutting to generate roots: http://www.plumeria101.com/cuttings101.html Some take a little less time, and some take a little more time. After 90 days, if you have a nice set of leaves, then you have a rooted plumeria. If your cutting starts to rot before that time, you will be able to tell that. As long as the cutting is firm and green, you just need to leave it alone to do its thing. It does take patience, but it will happen;-)

You put them in the pots with appropriate rooting medium
Place in a hot sunny location and go dosomething else for a month.
If you absolutely must know then use translucent containers like tupperware or plastic bottles.
This is also reccomended in the JL book.
Clear containers root better it says.

Chantell, here are my two containers inside a mini greenhouse which are group rooting. Normally, I would put them on a heat mat, but this little mini greenhouse gets very warm during the day and stays warm at night, and the heat mat already has stuff on it! I just ordered two more large heat mats for next winter.

Wow Clare_CA. Are those in water? How and when do you transplant them using the method in your photo? I didn't realize that they could be rooted in groups, but obviously I have a lot to learn.

Nice lil gang rooting party Clare!!

Clare - excellent idea!!! I don't have enough to do that - not sure if that's good or bad at this point...LOL But I will check out my HD and Lowes for bamboo...and get these guys stable w/o the pea gravel.
Oh Michael...so many ways to respond...but I think not. "Better to remain silent and thought a fool, then to speak and remove all doubt." - Lincoln

Thanks, Michael;-)

Andidandi, they are standing on about three inches of potting soil and will be transplanted to individual one-gallon containers after a couple of months when they have the start of roots. I wouldn't recommend this method for beginners.

Chantell, once the roots fill the pots they will be stable without the support. I love that saying by Lincoln. Nice!

I use it often also.
Once in a while on myself LOL!!
If I allow myself to seem the fool on occassion
it makes others a little more comfortable sharing.


Chantell,
You could PM the thought and then not worry bout looking silly LOL!!
I wont tell :^P

Oh definately agree! I've played the fool on a regular basis during my life. As you said it's good at helping others to feel comfortable!! Speaking of which...what does PM stand for except for "Post Meridiem" (only know that from just looking in up on www.ask.com LOL)

PM = Private Message ;^)

Oh mercy...if those "duh" moments could just not come with such frequency...imagine how smart I'd be?! LOL!!!!!!!!

If you had a dollar (or a gallon of gasoline heh... ) for each one imagine how rich you might be? LOL!! 8^D

I'll take the gal of gas - whewww-weee I'd could do some traveling!!!

I pulled out a cutting so that I could stuff another cutting in one of the gang-rooting pots and was about to shove it back in when I noticed it had roots! So this one got its own individual container today. The roots are coming from the swollen cambium at the bottom of the cutting. You can see that I didn't need to dip the cutting so deep into the rooting powder. I really only need enough to cover the bottom.

Wow!!! Clare how long had those been in there?

I'm not sure, Chantell, a couple of months, maybe a month.

This message was edited May 29, 2006 7:06 PM

oooo I love roots!!!! WOO-HOOO!!!

Ah Clare...that is excellent!!! I tell you - you guys are so right...just the last couple of days of heat...my four are perked right on up. The Dukes leaves went from poking out to finally a full leaf!! "I'm so excited...I just can't hide it...."

Hi Clare, I am back. I got a new red cutting about 14 inches long in June and potted it. I thought I finally had this thing down, but I remember reading that you said red ones are difficult to root. Well....

Everything was going fine. I had my new red cutting, along with a white one on a heating pad which was turned on during the cool hours of day and at night. Both the red and white started putting out leaves. The white cutting got hydrated and is healthy now. The red one started shrivelling and feeling spongy, but not getting brown yet. The sponginess is getting higher on the stem and the leaves are wilting. I pulled it out of the pot to see if there are any roots. None, however a white layer started protruding. Out of curiosity, I cut that off to see if the stem is rotting. Suprisingly, white liquid started flowing out and there was only a small part of the outer stem that showed any brown.

I regret cutting off the bottom. What to do now? I cut off the larger leaves. And have a mostly shrivled up stem with small leaflets on top.

Thanks for your help,

Don

Hi Don, the white layer protruding sounds like the swollen cambium which is a prelude to roots forming. I wish you had posted before you cut it off! Now, you'll need to let the bottom heal for a week in a cool dry place. You can dip in rooting hormone before setting it aside to heal. Then, after a week, do the same thing you did before. Place on a hot surface, mist regularly, and water when the soil looks dry.

Sometimes a cutting will look wrinkled and dehydrated while rooting because it has no roots. It can also look this way when it is rotting. Sticking your fingers below the soil line for a squeeze test will help determine if it is rot or if it is just dehydrated. Misting frequently will help to ward off dehydratation. Also, if the cutting is getting a lot of bottom heat with a heat pad and natural heat, then you can worry less about rot. I water whenever the soil looks dry. The soil should never be allowed to go completely dry.

You did the right thing by cutting off the large leaves as you need to start over. Leaves usually mean that roots are forming so, if you see leaves coming in, you can relax and know that your cutting is rooting or rooted. You just have to start over now. Since it is mid-August, you'll have to continue the rooting process inside on a heat pad or in a greenhouse when cool nights start to approach. The ideal soil temperature for rooting is 80 degrees or higher so try not to let the soil temp get cold.

Thanks Clare. It's hard for this guy to learn.

I am a little fearful of trying to start again at the end of summer. What do you think of holding off on this one until next spring?

Don