Hello all, well I had posted a picture of the cutting I got a while back. It didn't look as if it was doing anything and I had to check and see! Nothing!!! Not one, no rot or anything bad thank goodness. But no roots either. I just don't know what to do or what I did wrong. Any ideas please!!!
Cutting not getting any roots??? Help!
Bev,
The others that really know what they're doing will check in, I'm sure. But it seems to me that some take much longer to root then others. I've had a Duke cutting in soil since Feb and barely have some roots now. I know Clare and others have told me that bottom heat esp. is important for rooting to happen. How long have you had it in the soil and do you have it on a heat mat? If your temps have been any way similiar to ours (7A) the warm days have been scattered with cool days.
Don't lose hope though - and as I've been told be very careful about "checking" for roots - I was told that the roots are very fragile and I could actually do damage by pulling them up to check.
Chantell
What Chantell said! You go girl!
Bev, Chantell is right on with everything that she said. Temps are still cool right now, and heat will help the rooting process. If you don't have a heat mat, set the container that the cutting is in on the hottest piece of concrete that you can find during the day. If it is not rotting, then it will root; it just takes time and heat. Remember, it takes 60-90 days on average (sometimes longer) for roots to form in good, hot weather so patience and bottom heat is needed:-)
I learned good...huh, Clare? See those million gazillion questions and your patience in answering them has started to pay off...amazing! :)
hugs!
Chantell, you did learn well it seems!! I will leave it alone and no I don't have a heat mat...so I guess I will rely on the concrete! And time :( Boy, it is times like this I wish I had been born with more patience! My temps are pretty much right on with yours cold, warm, then hot.
Clare it seems you guys taught her well! Thanks a bunch! How moist should the soil be for rooting? I know we have had alot of rain here and I had to bring it in...was scared it would drown and wanted to avoid the dreaded rot!!
Bev
Ive hadsome difficult ones take over a year unfortunately.
Rooting in clear plastic bottles with perlite avoids the 'need' to pull them up to look for roots
Which all get broken off when u do LOL!!
Patience is key here and this method helps you stay that way. ;^)
MICHAEL...there you are!!!! How are you feeling?!!!
Doin well. ;^)
I responded uin detail on the other thread
Yup..saw that after I'd written this...glad to "see" ya back!
Michael, it is great seeing you back on here! How are you feeling? I hope all is well! Plastic bottles as in 2 liter pop bottles with holes in the bottom of them or is that a really backwoods way of thinking?? Teehee, sorry I am from the country and that is the picture I got when I read your response! Lucky or unlucky, however we look at it here there were no roots for me to damage when I peeked at it. I was worried about the rot situation I have read about so often on here and with all the rain we have been getting here I was kinda scared it was ruined! Great to have you back and thanks for the post, as always.
Bev
Michael, it is great to see you posting so soon. I'll go read what you wrote on the other thread to get an update on how you are. I hope you are taking it easy. I've had ones take over a year to root too. I've had ones take over a year to rot too! LOL!
Bev, moist and warm is the best combination. Without that heat, drier is better, but the soil should not be allowed to go bone dry. I think the plastic bottles that Michael is referring to are the smaller 8-oz water bottle types. I think 2-liter would be way too big unless it is a large cutting. Instead of pulling the cutting out to check for rot, reach just below the soil line and gently squeeze. If the cutting is firm and the color is good, then you can rest easy, and it is rooting. If, when you squeeze, it is soft and squishy, brown or discolored, then it is rotting, and you can cut off the rot to clean white wood and let the cut callous over for a week and then try rooting the cutting again.
instead of rooting them in perlite, has anyone ever used spaghnum moss?
i've been a little overwhelmed with all the information i've been trying to take in since my new obsession with tropicals began. i'm a little confused and could use some advice. i've just purchased my first blooming plumeria and feel like the heat is wilting the flowers already. or is that just the normal progression of the flower and i'm being paranoid?? also, i thought i read somewhere that i should plant my cuttings in large container to start with so as not to have to move them and disturb the root system. is it okay to start with a 2-liter sized bottle?
alsa, i read that too. that guy was saying that while the plumeria needed a good root system that it was the size of the trunk that made a plumeria strong.
Roots will develop with warm bottom heat.
Wilting of the flowers is probably the blossom being spent.
These plants are very hardy and wont wilt from drought. unless desicated (shriveled trunk)
The container should match the size of the root system
Too big = too moist and then rot
Always better to be dry rather than wet
This message was edited May 12, 2006 9:01 AM
Hi Aslasalle and Mamajack, Michael is right about what he said. There is one grower in Texas, named Rick Stone, who does things differently than most plumerias growers advocate, and it is my opinion that what works for him in the Texas climate would not work for other growers in other climates. I am not alone in this opinion, and others have agreed with me from California to Florida, but it does emphasize that what works well for one grower in a particular climate may not work well for another grower in a different climate and environment. You have to figure out what your growing environment is and experiment to find out what works best for you. As a general rule, what Michael outlines are sound and proven principles and based on sound horticultural principles. Plumerias should not be overpotted; they are not traumatized by repotting; they do not show transplant shock; and they are very drought tolerant. The size of the cutting to be rooted determines the container to be used, but usually a one-gallon container is more than sufficient. To root cuttings, you want the best possible well-draining medium. Sand, Perlite, or a well-draining potting mix works well. Spaghnum Peat Moss and any other medium that holds water will not work well and may cause the cutting to rot. Please see the new FAQ's for info about rooting cuttings. Also, see my article about rooting cuttings at www.plumerias.com Click on the link for Clare's Garden to access the article. You can save the pdf version to your computer's hard drive, if you wish, for future reference.
thanks to everyone. y'all are great. nowhere else but daves.
clare, thanks so much for the info. i really appreciate your patience, passion and philosophy on gardening. i know it won't be the last question, but is it a bad idea to put two plants (each approx. 3' tall) in the same 5 gallon container?
Malestrom,
you were right, my plant is fine. it's taken a couple of reads, but i'm getting it...avoid retaining water. also, i never thought i'd value my concrete space. it's becoming the new home for my beauties--warm roots makes for a happy plant!
i must say thank you to all of you on this fourm. when i'm away from my garden, i can't wait to get home just to be amongst my flowers. i want one of every color/scent!! y'all are the best!
I have been unsuccessful in starting plumeria cuttings for years, but I'm a die-hard. I've ordered one more. I live in a climate that is hot and dry in the summer.
The pointers I have picked out on the net that I have not yet tried are:
Prevent the potting medium from drying out.
Plant in straight perlite in a plastic bottle so I can see what's going on (drinking bottle size). I have been using cactus mix.
When I get the stick, make four 1/8 inch deep cuts parallel with the stick three inches long to provide more rooting surface.
Dip in rooting hormone with fungicide after making cuts.
Let sit two weeks before planting.
I plan to put this in a spot where it will get morning sun only. One living plumeria that I do have got sunburned badly from afternoon sun.
Any other suggestions for a successful rooting?
Thanks.
Hi Aslasalle, it's my pleasure to help:-) I value my concrete space too! Love that heat! I know exactly what you mean about wanting every color and every scent. I'm right there with you! Now, about the more than one plumeria in each pot, I do think that it is not a good idea for a couple of reasons. One, the roots are very fragile, and if more than one grow together in a pot, when you go to separate them, you will surely break apart the root systems as the roots of plumerias break easily. Two, you will need to separate them eventually as they branch when they flower, and the branches will surely be crossing and crowding each other in no time. Three, they will compete for root space, water, and food, possibly causing growth and flowering problems.
Donkus, bottom heat is essential to the rooting process. If you have a soil thermometer, the soil temperature should be 80 degrees or higher. If you have your cuttings on hot cement or, even better, on a heat mat, then you can water liberally because the heat will dry the soil quickly. A heat mat is really ideal because temps stay uniform 24 hours a day. If you just use cement, soil temps will drop at night as the air cools, and this drop in temperature can cause problems, especially for hard to root cuttings. I use Perlite for only the most difficult-to-root cuttings, and I put it in a jar with a little water at the bottom on a heat mat. Perlite does drain nicely though so it is not a bad medium to root in. Cactus mix by itself, depending on which branch you use, can stay too moist if temps are cool so you might consider adding pumice or Perlite to it. I would not make the cuts that you talk about. The roots come from the cambium from the bottom. The cuts you are talking about could damage the cambium and are not necessary. Cuttings only need about a week to callous over and heal. Misting the cutting frequently to keep it hydrated while it is sitting on a heat source is very beneficial. Your cutting should go in full sun. Sunburn only occurs when a cutting or plumeria isn't acclimated slowly to full sun after being inside or in shade or protected from sun for a long period of time. You can start out with only morning sun for the first week, but then put in full sun. Please see the FAQ's that I just created for more information about rooting cuttings. It is a sticky thread now at the top of the Plumeria Forum.
donkus,
sounds like interesting advise, but a couple hours too late. i just put mine in pots an hour ago. i'm so excited! if it works, this could quite possible take over my life! i bought mine off of e-bay and wasn't particularly impressed, but i'm such a novice i really don't know how they should look. i like the idea of plastic bottles because i'm so impatient and want to do what my husband calls a "root-test" on everything. :o) i couldn't find the time to plant them, so they did sit around for about a week. i didn't cut slits into mine. that's the first i've ever heard of that. so are you saying that the youngsters can get too much sun? i know they want warm roots so i've got them on the concrete. should i be fertilizing any at this age?
anyway, it's all fun. i feel like a mother for the first time!
thanks for the info clare. i must look crazy walking around feeling the concrete! i've got to get that thermometer you talk about. i guess i'm feeling confident, but i'm ready to repott some plants that i bought. they are blooming, healthy and absolutely gorgeous! they are in one gallon pots and about 4' tall. is it time to repot?
This message was edited May 13, 2006 4:12 PM
This message was edited May 13, 2006 7:12 PM
Hi Aslasalle, Sunburn only occurs when a cutting or plant isn't acclimated to full sun after being inside or in shade or protected from sun for a long period of time. Where did you get your cutting from? If it came from Hawaii or Florida, chances are it is well-acclimated to full sun and should remain in full sun. The only time I experienced sunburn was when I was given a cutting of a branch that was growing in 100% shade under the eave of a neighbor's house. Plumerias can take a lot of heat and the full strength of the sun if watered well and provided they are acclimated to it. Yes, you can fertilize from spring to fall, provided that the nighttime temps are remaining above 50 for you. Your one-gallon containers can be repotted if they are rootbound and dry out quickly. You can repot to three-gallon or five-gallon containers, if you wish, and add some slow-release fertilizer to the planting hole when you transplant.
Hi Clare_CA,
I really appreciate your advice and will seriously consider it in making adjustments to caring for my next cutting. However, a "lot of heat and full strength of the sun" is generally 20+ degrees hotter in Fresno, CA than in Camarillo, CA. So, I think that I need to take that into account. Don't you?
Hi Donkus, once plumerias are acclimated to their environment and provided they get enough hydration, they can stand (and flourish in) very high temperatures and a very strong sun. Plumerias grow exceedingly well in full sun in Mexico, Hawaii, Arizona, Costa Rica, and many other locations which get much hotter than your environment. Acclimating your plumeria, if it is not already acclimated, is the key to preventing sunburn. Gordon grows plumerias on his rooftop in New York where temps reach 145 degrees; Dete grows them in Arizona; and Kukiat grow them in Thailand. Gordon also recently posted pictures of plumerias growing on rocks and at the bases of volcanos and out of the sides of cliffs in Panama: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/595416/ My greenhouse got up into the 120's during the day, and the plumerias could not have been happier. With plumerias, the more heat and sun that they get, the better they will grow and bloom. Here are some good links for you: http://www.theplumeriasociety.org/dyncat.cfm?catid=2018 and http://www.plumeria101.com/questions.html
By the way, I forgot to say welcome to Dave's, Donkus. I see you just signed up today and are subscribed for two months! I hope you'll stay longer:-)
This message was edited May 13, 2006 10:11 PM
I just had to chime in with my two cents worth. I live in the Bahamas and all of my plumies are in total full sun........and they love it! They get sun from morning until the sun sets and it gets pretty intense here midday. I have blooms on some, inflos on others and even my babies are all pretty happy. I start my seeds in a bright spot and as soon as they have their second and third sets of leaves I transplant them into 1/2 gallon containers and into the full sun they go. I have around 40 that I will have to repot this summer into 1 gallon containers, they are getting so big they are actually starting to tip over.......
Thanks, Clare_CA and Ipakosh,
Maybe this is the point I don't understand. In hot conditions, how much water do you give a new cutting? How moist should the soil be or remain? When I follow the written instructions I receive with the cutting, the potting medium gets very dry when I put in my moisture meter. The instructions say, "Do not water the cutting for the first week. Mist the cutting amd soil once a week. When you see leaves 2 to 3 inches long, the cutting is rooted and is ready to be watered."
This is what I did with my last cutting and the poor thing never rooted. It just shrivled up and now it is rotted.
I have never had a cutting rot but I have to admit I don't treat them special at all. I just plunk them into a container full of my potting mix......I mix potting soil and peat moss.........and a tad of perlite...just to make sure it drains well. I water normally.........and when they all have leaves they get watered probably every other day. But that is because they dry out really well here. I feel that I would rather they be on the dry side than moist. After a good watering I check and sure enough, by that night the soil is dry. So then another day of dry and then I water again. I never let them stay moist........I think that is how they rot. I go to Hawaii regularly and they are given no special attention there and they love it!
I think the ambient conditions have a lot to do with it.
I know California has been cooler than normal this spring. HOT HOT HOT is what plumies love, and in the warm weather they will tolerate water, even before rooting. My rooting buckets are exposed to rain and sprinkler water and I don't have a problem with rot except for a cutting here and there, and then I can usually trace it back to a defective cutting, or one that was too green.
In cooler weather, assuming you will put your rooting cutting in a few inches of soil in the warmest place possible, I would say just to mist the cutting/soil every other day or so, and check for roots before you begin watering. The rule 'when you see leaves it is rooted' is total nonsense. It is rooted when you pull on it and it doesn't come out of the pot LOL.
Hi Donkus, plumeria cuttings are very easy to root, but certain conditions have to be met first, and some root easier than others. For example, reds are known to be difficult to root; rainbows can be also.
The first condition for a cutting to root is that it needs to be healthy to start with. This is why it is important to buy from a reputable source who will send you a fresh, healthy cutting. Ebay is a risky place to buy cuttings unless you know the seller is reliable. There are far more unreliable sellers on eBay than reliable ones so it pays to do some research before buying on eBay. Second, heat is probably the second most important thing to rooting a cutting successfully, bottom heat particularly. When I root cuttings in the summer, I put them in full sun on hot concrete and mist them daily. If the soil looks dry, then they get watered. If they are watered the day before and they look dry the next day, then they get watered again. In my climate, my well-draining potting mix dries out very fast, and so in the summer, my plumies and cuttings get watered every day, sometimes twice a day if there are drying winds.
When the soil looks dry, my plumies get watered. Plumies love water, and once rooted, they rarely rot if they have an established root system and if they are not subjected to freezing temperatures. Only cuttings will rot if subjected to cold/damp soil. If the cutting is planted in soil which retains water and is too peaty and then it is subject to cool or cold temps, it will be more inclined to rot.
I'm afraid that I have to disagree with Hetty on a couple of points: tugging on a rooting plumeria is not a good idea as it may break roots, and if you see leaves coming in, then roots are forming as well. Also, I've successfully rooted many green cuttings, which actually rooted more quickly than hardwood cuttings. Again, please check the links at the FAQ's section on rooting cuttings and also check out Plumeria101, which has great information about rooting cuttings. There are many sources of information provided in the links, and they all are touting the same basic principles.
As you can see from the different responses, what works well for one person in one climate, may not work well for another person in another climate. The key to growing tropical trees successfully in a zone which is not tropical or subtropical is to figure out what your conditions are and treat them accordingly based on normal horticultural practices -- i.e., don't overpot or overwater; give the tree proper sun, lighting, fertilizer, etc.
Donkus, one more point that I want to clarify. Your instructions about not watering a just-planted cutting and keeping it on the dry side is good for cuttings which are rooting under certain conditions: when rooting in winter, when rooting in shade or part shade, when rooting in cooler temps, and when you have a cutting which is known to be hard-to-root; however, this principle should not be applied to cuttings rooting on a heat source or heat mat.
As I said before, cuttings should be rooting in a soil temperature of 80 degrees or higher. A soil thermometer can be purchased for about $5. If you have cuttings on a heat mat which is on high and doesn't turn off, then the soil will be 80 degrees or higher, and it will dry out very quickly. The soil should not go completely dry when rooting cuttings. These cuttings on a heat mat or heat source should be misted daily and watered frequently so that the soil never goes dry. Warm, even hot, moist soil will provide the ideal conditions for a plumeria to root.
To those more experienced: Are yellowing leaves a sign of over watering? I've watered my plants the last couple of days and then they got caught in the rain. Since then, I've noticed two plumerias with yellowing leaves. (However, I am having trouble with holes and yellowing in my elephant ears and can't figure what it is. I guess what my question should be is whether or not plumeria have insect problems.)
Thank y'all so much for all the help. It's such a joy everytime I go outside! (And I'm hoping to get my mom hooked--I gave her 2 for Mother's Day. Along with a subscription to Dave's. They might not make it otherwise! :o))
Hi Aslasalle! I should have said "Welcome to Dave's" to you also and "Welcome" to your mom also! What a nice Mother's Day gift you gave her.
Plumerias do get insect problems, such as aphids, whiteflies, and spider mites, especially if they are in your garden already, but compared to other trees, they are relatively free of problems. You can spray them with Neem Oil, Horticultural Oil, Insecticidal Soap, or whatever you use on your other plants. Thrips are a pest in some areas, but coincidently, they are also pollinators due to their long proboscis. It is natural to get a yellow leaf here and there as old ones shed and new ones come in. When it is really cold outside, like in the low 40's, mine start to shed their leaves starting with the lower leaves which turn yellow and fall off. Yellow leaves can also mean too little water is being given to the plant. My plumerias got drenched in weeks of rain this winter and still kept their leaves.
You know Clare_CA, I think my whole problem was that I did not understand the relationship between soil temperature and water. I think that I understand this now and am excited to try again. BTW, funny that you mention reds are hard to start...that is what I am trying this time around.
Donkus, it had to be reiterated for me to learn too, and I lost cuttings too when I tried to root them in winter or in June Gloom or in soil which became cold at night. I'm a member of PlumeriaPals, and this topic has been discussed extensively over the last few years by the members there, and Scott, the moderator, reiterates over and over again for the benefit of the newer members that 80 degrees and above is not only an ideal soil temperature, but it is imperative for successful rooting. There are some plumerias, like Celadine, which will root in almost any conditions, but there are others, like reds, which are very fussy. Still others are somewhere in between the Celadines and the reds. Good luck with yours and let us know how you make out.
Scott, the moderator over at PlumeriaPals just stated the following information, and I thought it was worth repeating here:
"Well, if you are going to be at it for a while then you might want to get a heat mat. Someone told me they were bringing them in at night. I do this too, but I bring them in and set them on a heat mat so they stay at 80 degrees. You can see the difference with a soil thermometer. I mean, with a soil thermometer, it falls into place. Without heat, you can see the temps drop off in the pot right away, and in a few hours, the soil is about 20 degrees colder than the outside temp. As cuttings, they notice this! It freaks out some of the more temperamental and/or sick ones. I am able to do all sorts of things I wouldn't have dared a few years ago. It's like they aren't mysterious anymore. Someday, if you want to get really into it, buy a metal halide lamp. Put them on a heat mat under it. The blue light makes them root almost always. Pretty cool."
I jumped in last fall and bought 3 big ones from ebay on a cold and rainy day. I had no clue how to root them. I emailed Clare and she told me they had to have heat. I put them under my lights on my seedling rack. They sat for months and did nothing.
Then I bought a heating mat and with in a few weeks they had rooted and had put out new growth. I was so thrilled. I have recently rooted more in just a couple of weeks the same way. Though I know nothing, I feel like an expert already. LOL
Congrats, Kell! Good job on getting that heat mat! This rooting thing is easy once you get the hang of it. If anyone is shy about trying it and worried about losing money, order some $2 ones from AlohaPalms: http://www.alohapalms.com/cgi-bin/store/agora.cgi The minimum order is five so, if you order five, you are paying about $16, including shipping and handling. That's not a bad price to experiment with five plumies, and success will give beginners the confidence to try with more expensive ones.
Where's the cheapest place to get heat mats?
I'm not sure -- maybe Big Lots or Wal-Mart maybe? Here is one site: http://www.growerssolution.com/page/GS/CTGY/heatmats I bought mine here: http://rosemania.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product201.html
Thanks, $8.99 for a heating pad at Big Lots.
Now, I am wondering from a picture I saw...would it be good to put the pad under a tray filled with sand and have my plumeria bottles/pots sitting 1 or 2 inches in that sand so that the heat would surround the lower part of the bottle/pot? Seems to me that this may distribute the heat more efficiently.