Falling Behind...Help Please!

Hello everyone, thanks for peeking in here. I need some help. I posted this in the Propagation forum last week and haven't gotten ANY responses. :-( boo hoo!

I fell behind w/ starting things, then I was injured....long story short....things are in a mess now and I haven't budgeted to buy plants. I need to start from seed. I can't figure out what to do for sure and that's just putting me further behind as I spend my days looking for good info I can't find. This is getting way too frustrating, all I'm doing is spinning my wheels and getting no where.

I've got a lot of seeds to start, but don't know what is my best option for starting them at this time. Should I start them indoors in flats? Drawbacks are not a lot of room, having to pot everything up to bigger pots at the same time which is time consuming and expensive because of soil, then I need to harden them off which takes more time and I always loose a few because I hurry them along. But, it's not a bad option, I do have lights and shelves set up already and stuff on hand to make my own soilless mix.

Should I start them in ws containers, basically spring sowing them? My only problem w/ this is they will need watered so much at this time of year. Also, some of my ws things didn't have great germination...kind of makes me nervous. Pluses are that they will already be hardened off and I won't really have to repot them.

My other option is to start a seed bed, but I am having a lot of trouble find good info on this. Most of the info I find is for large scale farming, and that's not what I'm doing at all!! Has anyone tried a seed bed? What were your results...can you give me some help please? I'm not sure what type of soil to use. I have a small lasagna style bed I put down last year but haven't planted yet and was thinking of using that. I just don't know how many seeds I'll lose to birds/critters, wash away, etc. I also don't know if I have to wait till after frost to sow. I'm thinking a seed bed would be either my best or worst option. LOL! No fooling w/ anything after preparing the bed, except to water them and I wouldn't have to do that very often.

The seeds I have cover the board...from Datura to Dianthus and Pandorea to Pansy.

I would really, *REALLY* appreciate some help w/ this, even if it's just links to info on seed beds for the home gardener. I have to get my head wrapped around this and get to it or I'm not going to have anything this year.

Thanks,
Heather

Spring sow them using WS techniques and containers. Just modify a bit, by using deeper soil (4-5") to hold moisture longer, and more openings in your containers to keep the heat down. Put them somewhere where they don't get direct sun.

The only things that won't work are seeds that need cold moist stratification to germinate.

Relax. This is supposed to be fun.

Heather,
I am sorry to hear that things have you frustrated. Donn's advice is great. Spring sowing is a great way to get lots of plants and for me would be the easiest. Once they sprout you can then plant them out in the area you want them. There are lots of seeds that do very well with spring sowing.
Good Luck and keep us posted.

Michelle

I can understand Heather's angst...she's in zone 5a, for pete's sake! The growing season is not as long as yours, donn.

If I were Heather, I would choose a subset of seeds:
-shortest date to maturity for annuals
-hardiest perennials
-no need for cold stratification
-those that do best direct seeded after last frost date (which I believe is still to come in zone 5a)

I'd push one flat at the most by using a heat seedling mat indoors, but for most of them, I'd prepare the beds where I want the flowers to grow to maturity; wait for frost free date to sow tender annuals, but many flower seeds like to be sown when there is still a chance of frost---check packet notes or whatever to identify those and sow them in the places where you want them now. This is just me...I wouldn't bother with the winter sowing techniques at this late date. I enjoyed doing it when no other gardening could be done, but the idea of prepping all those containers when soil can be worked does not appeal to me.

If you're concerned about the seed bed being damaged by critters, you can cover it with a floating row cover (any gauzy material that will let in light). I've also used chicken wire successfully, but that's more labor intensive and best in smaller beds/containers.

All the information above is excellent. I would concentrate on annuals that will germinate in the shortest amount of time and perennials that don't need seed stratification. Seeds that need stratification can be done next Winter. Don't worry about what might have been. Just do what you can and remember to enjoy it!

Thanks everyone for your responses...and so quick too!! :) What a relief to get some help.

At this point it has kind of turned from fun to hassle. Another reason this is frustrating is that about 90% of my seeds are from trades so there's no info on how to sow them. I've spent as much time as I can looking up info on what I can, the rest will have to be guesstimated. I'm hoping I have a handle on figuring out what needs to be "chilled out" before germinating.

We are still waiting for our last frost date here. We are never certain...Memorial Day always seems safe to us. I just had to cover some tender perennials the night before last.

So, I'm taking it that everyone else is thinking that I ought to go for the seed bed too? If I get a good seed bed established I may just keep it as a seed bed, so if something does end up needing chilled out maybe it'll show up next year.

Would sowing in a seed bed be pretty much like spring sowing in containers except that I'd want a gauzy type material laying on top of the bed like Zeppy said?

I know I may not get a lot of blooms from perennials this year, and that's ok. I'd still like to get them started. There's no sense in delaying things for an entire year. Annuals will give me the quickest blooms and may be the easiest to work with. I don't want my seeds sitting for another year and losing them either.

Does anyone know of a list of seeds for spring sowing?

I have some things that I was so looking forward to...Hyacinth Bean Vine, Corkscrew Vine, Pea Vine, Pandorea, just to name a few. I don't know about starting a lot of the things I have outdoors and that makes me nervous too. I don't have a lot of seeds for each plant, some I only have 3!

I do have some GA3 here that I got for my Datura seeds. I ordered the smallest amount they offered and it's actually quite a bit. I've thought a little about using some of that on some of the seeds I've only got a few of and that I'm not too certain of. Good or bad idea?

I was also considering mixing some phosphate into the soil in the seed bed before I sowed anything since it should help w/ root growth and is in most soilless seed starting mixes. Any ideas on that one? I really wish I could find some info on seed beds.

Thanks again,
Heather

I feel somewhat silly admitting this, but I don't know what you mean by seed beds. Do you just mean beds prepared for direct seeding? If so, I make sure the soil's fairly rich (adding soft rock phosphate and greensand, composted manure, coir or peat). Then I put down an inch or so of good compost: that's my equivalent of a weedless starting mix. I keep a sprinkler centered on the bed, and water whenever things look like they're drying out.

I never considered that someone wouldn't know what I meant! That's usually the other way around, so don't feel bad!

Seed bed = a "flower bed" to germinate seeds in and grow them in till they are big enough to transplant to their permanent home. At least that's my definition. Maybe I am the one who has it wrong.

I can't even remember what I put in my lasagna bed for soil last year. It was just whatever I had on hand. Right now I have peat, MG potting soil, regular potting soil, and maybe some manure (if dh didn't use it all up) on hand. I also have some vermiculite, perlite, lime, phosphate and sand. Under the lasagna bed will be lots of rocks and clay, but I really don't expect the roots to reach that before they are transplanted...even if they do it's ok...they'll be growing in it eventually, just somewhere else. The lasagna bed isn't too deep, it wasn't too deep to start out with, but if it would be good for starting seeds I think it would work. Right after making it it was nice black, loose dirt. It had huge nightcrawler worms in about a week...so it's got to be good soil, right? I'm sure it's the best soil I have.

Any help is appreciated soooo much. I feel like you're saving my garden and my summer here. Big hugs to all of you!
Heather

Heather,
I never had too much luck with direct seeding but it was probably the gardener not the seeds. I have had fantastic success with spring sowing in containers. So if you have the containers and the soil then I would check out Trudi's site at Wintersown.Org or check out the Faq page in wintersowing at GW. There is a long list of seeds that can be done now for spring sowing and many will bloom their first year. Being in zone 5 you still have plenty of time to see some of the perennials bloom this season. Here is a quick list that has worked for me in the past:

Bachlor Buttons
Flax
Rudbeckia
Chinese Forget-me-nots
Maltese Cross
Agastache
Nemophila
Poppies
Annual Asters
Cosmos
Catanache
Coreopsis
Dianthus
Malva
Penstemon
Salvia
Alyssum

Hope this helps Heather!
Michelle

Thanks so much Michelle. I'll check out those lists, I do already have the one from GW, but I'll look again at Trudi's site. Somehow I missed her ss list...prolly in too much of a hurry. You listed quite a few that I have, so that makes me feel better already.

Now I'm thinking maybe I should do a combo of ss and a seed bed. Put the more fragile or difficult seeds in containers and the easier things in a bed.

Now that I've talked to all of you and you've got me calmed down a bit (THANK YOU!) and I'm thinking more clearly....it doesn't take that long to water my ws containers. I have 38 of them & as long as I keep up w/ them it takes about 5-10 mintues. I could just add the ss containers to the group, and maybe add an extra 5 minutes to the watering. I usually water when I take the puppy out. I'd also make the ss containers deeper as suggested above. I think this will work.

The seed bed would have a sprinkler like mentioned above. Easy to turn on, leave it go, turn off. Weed bed when needed and let go other than that...I hope.

I still have soil from last year's pots I can use for ss so that will help in the pocket book area.

Hey, y'all, I think I can still pull a lot of this off w/out too big of problems!! I better get busy tho.

Thanks!

I just wanted to say thanks for everyone's help.

We put in a retaining wall along the length of our property last fall and put in 20 ton of soil. We thought that would fill the wall...it filled half of it. We have a lot to plant! With all the projects we have going on here dh doesn't consider plants to be on the top of the priority list right now...and I can't blame him. That's how and why I'm doing seeds.

I also have back problems...have had for years. Had failed surgery a few years ago. Some times are worse than others. I reinjured my back early this spring...at the time I was planning on starting things. That threw everything off. Then it turned into a whirlwind of catching up on everything...and the garden took a place on the backburner.

I just wanted to take a minute and explain how I go to this place of being so crazy! I had such a great plan for this spring and summer...then felt like it all went down the tubes. I was very disappointed when I got no response on the Propagation Forum. But so happily surprised when all of you came to the rescue here! Thanks so very much for your help and understanding.

Anyone want to come and help me sow about 200 containers?? LOL!! Maybe I'll have to see if there are any bored neighborhood kids around.

Heather,
I am so glad that we have made you feel better and that some of the frustration has lifted. You sure have had a rough spring. I hope that everything will work out ok. If I was even remotely close to PA I would be over in a jiffy to help you sow your seeds. My advice pick out the seeds you plan to do then spend a friday evening or a saturday and start filling the containers. It really won't take too long. Just remember that you need to keep them out of the direct sun. They will sprout in no time now that the temps have warmed up.

Good Luck and send me a d-mail to let me know how you are doing. I certainly understand the overwhelmed feeling. Been out in the garden this morning moving, dividing and adding plants to my long border. I was starting to feel a little stress so I came in had a cup of tea and I feel better and ready to tackle more. Don't get me started on all of the containers that I have full of wintersown plants that need to go in the beds soon.

Michelle

I think one of the biggest problems I was having is just needing to vent to someone who would listen. Isn't it something how that works?

Now that it is finally starting to get warming here in frigid zone 5 I can get outside and start the containers, which will be a lot quicker and easier than getting them together indoors. The fresh air will do me good too! I'll feel like I'm actually gardening because I'm outside. WSing didn't feel like gardening, even tho I knew it was. As much fun as it was, it didn't feel like "real" gardening. Felt like houseplants.

I'm going to take your advice too, but tweek it a little. When I start to feel tired or overwhelmed I'm going to get some tea (or maybe something stronger! lol) and sit in my swing for a bit. I have a hammock swing that is great for my back, and I've only used it once this year so far. Last year I was in it everyday before working in the garden. Dh keeps hanging it up for me and putting it away (so no one steals it), and I've just not used it. I think that's why this has turned into work, there's no relaxation, no enjoyment of the garden...just do, do, do. I have to go enjoy what is out there already. You're a smart girl, thank you! :-)

Whoever said above not to focus on what isn't done, what's past is past is right. It's time to do what I can and go from there...and take a rest in the swing and enjoy it. *big sigh*

Thanks for the great ideas and for being my sounding board everyone...y'all are great.
Hugs,
Heather

Heather - I've noticed that 4'oclocks germinated real quick outside. I planted them in plastic containers that strawberries and blueberries come in and I think they germinated in like a week. Morning glory was quick to sprout too.

Thank you! Both of those are in my seed stash. I actually traded for some nicer MGs this year that I've never had before. Grandpa Ott's, a Chocolate, etc.

Did you still nick and/or soak them before sowing them? That was something else I was wondering about with ss. I didn't know for sure if that would be different in ss than in ws. It will probably say on Trudi's site...when I get over there. I can't seem to get out of DG today! LOL

I didn't on the two I mentioned. The rest were wintersown so if they needed it, it was taken care of naturally

Thanks again.

I just recruited my dh. What a surprise. He even offered to help w/ getting the containers ready...the most boring part. We'll be starting in a bit here.

I got all of my containers ready last night, with dh's help. I have the potting soil almost ready to go, getting ready to mix in some soil from last year.

We cut the tops right off of most of the containers. I'm using mostly juice bottles and milk jugs. I noticed from ws that the milk jugs that had their tops off, rather than holes cut in them, did better for me. We left enough of a "lip" on the containers that we don't think any birds will peck into them to get the seeds.

Now, it's just to fill 'em up and sow. Then lable and set out. I'll let you know how many we end up doing. Right now my front porch is covered w/ plastic containers...it looks like a recycling center! LOL!

Just wanted to report that I planted 43 ss containers last night. Worked till well after dark, but got them all finished. Today it is raining, nice gentle rain...first rain in a month! So, that is great!!

I do have more to sow, soon as I get more containers. I also held back a few things like Forget Me Nots and Dianthus, etc. that should be easy to start in the seed bed.

That's all for now. Thanks again everyone!!
Heather

Heather,
Way to go! Glad to see that you got started. You will have loads of blooms this summer so take lots of pics!

Michelle

Thanks Michelle. Not a problem w/ the pics, that's one of my other favorite things to do! :-)