I noticed in the straw bale articles that some folks put topsoil on top of their bales. Is this necessary? Has anyone else tried this? Or do you just pop the plants right into the bale?
Also, should one fertilize after planting? Or would it depend on the type of veggie?
Thanks
pam
Straw Bale Gardening - Part 3 - the saga continues
Jnette - let me know what happens with the borax. I used it in a flower bed to kill an ant hill and it destroyed the soil and all plants around it. I had to dig it out and throw it all away. But I used a LOT. I heard that they don't like cinnamon so went to a discount store and got a big container of it. Will let you know if it works. They have moved into a big hydrangea and killed half the plant already.
Hey Kent - should be re-post the preparation information again? I have it bookmarked for myself but some new people may not be going back to thread #1.
My bales are cookin' and lookin' good.
Alyrics, the Borax works only for some. I did get rid of some but had about 4 or 5 different kinds of ants out there. Afraid I am going to have to get something else to try. I think Sevin might work so will have to read it. I didn't put the Borax very close to the plants themselves. Mostly on the ground around it and since the tomatoes are in straw it probably won't hurt them.
Good question Kent about more fertilizer? How often are you all watering?
Jeanette
Late responding; been very busy at Wake S.O, home duties, and church
Big Red: yeah, I know, don't tell your carrots, parsnips, and onions they aren't supposed to be doing this. You'd think some folk would just say "I don't know" to questions they have no experience with. It's like the ammonium nitrate-the-sky-is-falling-&-will-blow-up crowd.
Pam: for me and the crops I'm growing, top soil on top is only necessary if I was gonna plant from seeds; my daddy used some around his tomatoes because he's from the "old school" and just can't quite grasp the concept of going totally soil-free with the exception of the transplanted root ball that comes out of the starter pack with the plant
Pam & Jeanette: I'm presently using some liquid Miracle Grow about once per week; just mix up a table spoon per gallon and water around the plants
I'm watering every plant every morning b4 work and after sunset unless it's raining and don't have to get the hose out. I just don't see how you can overwater, but you can definitely not water enough. You just have to get in the habit of watering those plants.
alyrics: OK, here's my original instructions; modify them as you see fit and see what works
It takes about 10 days to prepare your bales.
Days 1–3: Water the bales thoroughly and keep them wet.
Days 4–6: Sprinkle the bales with one half cup of ammonium nitrate (34-0-0) per bale per day, and water it well into the bales. I didn’t have any trouble finding ammonium nitrate
from my local ag-supply store. They sold it in 50-pound bags. I have heard, however, that some people have had difficulty finding it in more urban settings. Ask around.
If you can't find ammonium nitrate or don't want to use it, then others have used BLOOD MEAL, FISH EMULSION, COMPOST TEA, etc as their nitrogen source
Days 7–9: Cut back to one quarter cup of ammonium nitrate per bale per day and continue to water it in well.
Day 10: No more ammonium nitrate, but do add 1 cup of 10-10-10 fertilizer per bale and water it in well.
Day 11: Transplant your plants into the bales. I used a spatula to make a crack in the bale for each plant.
Place the plant down to its first leaf and close the crack back together.
(Edited for typos)
This message was edited May 10, 2006 10:19 PM
Here are some of the tomatoes they are really growing. We have had some rain and will be getting a little more on thursday. The entire garden is jumping out of the ground and these bales are really giving me a lot of fun.
Melinda, your plants look fabulous. Great job. :)
Melinda, did you pinch your first flowers off? Just curious as I have read on other forums, like the tomato forum, that you should. I am not sure why. Jeanette
Has anyone experienced any problems that might be attributed to herbicides used in the fields where the wheat straw was grown?
My local extension agent cautioned me a couple of years ago about using straw for mulch that was grown in fields where a herbicide named "Growzone" was used. He said that it was extremely persistant, even after composting. Some of the local gardeners were having problems with plants dying without apparent cause, and this turned out to be the problem.
This has also developed into a problem for those of us who are trying to maintain "certified organic" standards, which does not permit the presence of chemicals.
After inquiring about the sources of wheat straw available locally, I found that the suppliers either used this, or similar herbicides, or there was no information available about the source.
I had been wondering about onions, beets and carrots in the bales, because they sure aren't going to like trying to grow in the cob mud that'll be rock-hard adobe again in a month or so hereabouts, and now that I'm reading your notes, I'm going to try some carrots in the extra space around the tomatoes and peppers!
Stephl,
THAT is interesting. I'm wondering if I'm experiencing some of that? It seems the transplants that I've put in aren't doing as well as some that I have in the ground planted at the same time.
I used a lawn fertilizer at start too. Some say some of those have some weed killer in them and that'll definitely cause a problem. I didn't see anything on the bag that I used to start my bales with that mentioned it having weed killer in it though.
RuTemple: Good idea... I've got some extra carrot seed left over, so I might try that as well!
Billy
Good point. I was hesitant to say that although I have a bumper crop of mushrooms and the yellow squash are doing well, I am not having very good results with 3 different kinds of tomatoes I have planted in my bales. I tought it was odd that Better Boy, Early Girl and Parks Whoppers were all struggling to survive as well as my cantelope transplants.
Uh oh.....
pam
I've only had mine in a few days but so far I have had one Early Girl kind of wilt but I watered her and haven't been out to look at her again. Will let you know.
RuTemple,
I've tried a few onoin plants in my bales and so far they seem to be doing well. Stick them down deep so the roots won't dry out. Here's some growing between a Big Red tomato plant and a Calabrese broccoli.
My tomatoes don't seem to be making any headway. I finally have blooms on one but they are not growing as a whole. The peppers are doing okay for the most part. I have a couple that seem to want to wilt down badly but they come back a bit and wilt again. My eggplant is doing well as are the yellow squash. My cucumbers are getting a bit yellow so I fertilized everything with Peters all around . Disolve it in a gallon of water and water away. I hope to see them pick up in the next few days. We had a good bit of rain last night and today and it was overcast today so I did not water my bales. I will keep you posted. Oh, did I mention the local paper is going to come out and take some pictures? What high points should I hit in the way of information?
Cajun, high points to me would be the height and not having to get down on your knees to garden. No weeds to pull? You can pick the fruit/vegetables standing up instead of getting down low. All you have to do is mow between the rows for starters. These might give you some ideas. Good luck. Let us know how it goes.
Kent, Some of the tomatoes people have shown look gangly to me. Is that the nitrogen they started out with? Or is it the type of tomatoes they are growing?
One thing I would like to tell them is that bees will not come out in weather that is under 50 degrees. So, take your finger and go around and stick it in all of the blossoms. That will pollinate them. Don't forget to go back and get the first one. LOL
Do you think maybe the bales are either not decomposed enough to provide some soil for the plants, or aren't finished cooking and are too hot? Our weather is cool in the 50's and rainy right now - not good tomato weather. But probably good for composting those bales. I am on Day 6.
That's another good point, our weather has been fairly cool for about a week - what the locals call Blackberry Winter. My peas are growing like crazy - they love the cool, rainy weather.
I am on my second day of urea, although they have been outside for a few weeks now. My BF says we should cover them with a tarp to prevent evaporation. Does anyone see a problem with this idea? The tarp comes off if it rains otherwise the urea is watered in well and then the bales get covered.
Whadda ya think?
-Kim
Stephl: In trying to do a little research I tried to google "Growzone" and I can't find it as a herbicide or the manufacturer. Any more info?
If some plants are doing well in some bales and worse in others I don't know if "Growzone" or a herbicide would be a cause. I would think it would damage plants across the board.
All: The tomatoes I got from Melissa have bounced back rather well after not looking too hot after the trip through the mail. They had good size roots on them and I think that is the key for tomatoes.
My Better Boys are looking good except they're not jumping out of the bales yet but will do so soon. Also, my Parks Whoppers, German Johnsons, and Mountain Spring all seem well.
If I remember correctly, this happened last year. I had a cool first couple of weeks, nothing too exciting happening, and then, BAM!, it warmed up nicely, especially at night and the tomatoes and everything else took off.
The way the bales are prepped may have an effect. I don't know. I only have experience with the ammonium nitrate.
Some have used a variety of different nitrogen sources. Those that have used Blood Meal seem to be faring well. Big Red is doing well in KY.
I forget what Melinda used in SC, but she is doing great with a couple weeks headstart.
Jeanette: re: the gangly tomatoes, I don't know about the nitrogen from the prep stage causing the gangliness. With all the water being used to wash in the nitrate I would tend to think it would be diluted enough to not have that big an impact, but just guessing.
Again, in using the 34-0-0, mine are not showing those symptoms. But other products may stay in the bales longer, etc. Again, just another guess.
bluekat: wrapping up your bales should help in cooler areas; anything to keep the heat in so those little bacteria want to stir around
There was a NOTICEABLE difference in temp on my double row bales than my single row bales. More mass kept the temps up and those bacteria had a field day.
SO, for those whose plants aren't doing well, for what it's worth, I'd prescribe this:
1. Water immediately with some dissolved Miracle Gro/comparable product just around the plant root area.
2. Water your plants in the AM and PM, daily, REGARDLESS of rain unless you get alot.
3. Wait 1 week and give another shot of Miracle Gro/et al.
OR
4. Use your experience and judgement and document what happens
Kent, I think alyrics is correct, lots of rain and cloudy weather does not make for good tomato growth. Mine have slowed down some the last week or so but we have had very little sun lately. When the sun comes back out I think I'll see better growth.
Well, we are suppose to be in the mid 80s all next week with nights in the high 40s and 50s. Keep your fingers crossed for me. I know that is what those tomatoes like.
I really don't know what to do about the ants though. I did get rid of quite a few with the borax but still have some. Apparently the borax doesn't affect all kinds.
Jeanette
I've been watching aqll these strawbale threads with great interest. Now, my sister and I have a contract on a new home in Virginia (no longer in Limbo, I hope!) and are set to close on June 15 if financing goes through. I hope to do some fall crops in bales and will certainly post photos and results!
Congrats on the house! Where abouts in Virginia are you planning to hang your hat?
outside of Marion, VA in the rolling Appalachian mountain area.
Strawbaleman & all..... I've been keeping up with this 3 Part series and am going to give it a try. I have limited open garden space so I think this is just what I need to grow a couple plants each of Amish cantalope, zucchini & yellow squash. A local nursery has straw bales for $1.00 each...not bad!!
Really appreciate all the information!! Great idea!!!
LarryD
darius,
I got out my atlas to find Marion and it looks to be about 2 1/2 hours from us. If you like beautiful country you are going to love it here in the Appalachians. You are only a couple hours driving distance in several directions from some of the most beautiful, natural wonders in the world. I haven't been to Marion but I wouldn't think it would be a lot different from here in extreme eastern Kentucky. There is abundant wildlife and beautiful wild flowers and edible plants and fruits. A person could live good off the land in these parts if it came to having to do so.
Welcome to the neighborhood!
My tomatoes still look a bit puny but almost all of them are putting on blooms. Still haven't got my trellis up but the cucumbers are putting on a lot of new growth in the tops. The yellow squash is growing well also.
The man from the newspaper hasn't come by yet. Hope he doesn't stand me up. LOL I need to get my front porch cleaned off, anyway. I don't want the backgound in the pics to look like Fred G. Sanford's empire. I have a mess out there.
Cajun, Thanks. I have lived near there (Boone, NC, maybe 1-1/2 hours away) for many years, as has my sister. So it's not really unfamiliar territory, just kinda. I always knew I had to live in the Appalachians!
For me,it's a long way from home. I am from down the bayou in La. But I love it here and I hope God leaves me here in these mountains for the rest of my years. I miss family, friends and the great fresh seafood we felt was our birthright, LOL, but I do not want to move back. Erosion and bad politics have devastated the bayouland and it is going fast. I am glad I am not there to hold it's hand while it fades away. It would be too painful. Here I do not have to think about it so much. It is a shame when a whole way of life is lost. During shrimp season we ate shrimp, fish and soft shell crab for supper every night.
And it was all caught that morning! Such a wonderful life.
I gather wild edibles from the mountains around my home. I am waiting anxiously for all the wild berries to get ready. I can almost taste them now!
Cajun, you have my heart!
Maybe we can get together and visit sometime. We could meet at one of our areas beautiful state parks and camp and have a cookout. My husband is the world's best griller! And he plays guitar.
I saw late this afternoon that I have a bloom on one of my cucumbers. I can see salads in my near future!!!
So glad for you Darius. That is wonderful.
Also, Larry, Cottenpicker, that is a terrific buy on the straw. Good luck. Mine cost me $4 so you did good.
Jeanette
Cajun, YES, we will have to meet!
I bought some taters to stick down in a few bales, I already have onions in some. No harm experimenting!!
I don't know whether I told you Kent, but my BIL always had a huge garden when he worked for himself. He took a job about 8 years ago working for someone else, and has so little time to garden and has missed his garden so much. I told him about this, and he went with my hubby when he got straw and got some for himself. He's enjoying his bales so much! Thank you again Kent!!
To All Mothers: hope you have a Happy and Blessed Mother's Day!
Melissa: glad to hear about your BIL. Looking forward to hearing about his progress.
Has anybody tried celery in the bales yet?
Kathy
Well I've got some encouraging news. I have been concerned about my straw bale plants and also noticed that some squash I planted in soil is doing much much better. However, after the warm/hot weather we've been having, my bales seem to be looking much better. My tomatoes are starting to actually grow again. This is good. I also think that nutrients played a big part. I picked up some jobe's tomato stakes, and those seem to be helping lots too. Yay! There may be hope afterall. ;)
My Red Cherry tomato plant seems to be doing better in my hay bale, it is starting to grow nicely. The Brandywine is still suffering, although I have seen some new green leaves starting to put on.
Word is still out on my peppers. The ones in the ground are miles ahead and are actually producing peppers. They were planted at the same time from the same batch.
Billy
http://pictures.aol.com/ap/myAlbums.do?albumId=25137.1064.1147808281219.1
Some photos of my garden.