Dung Doo Doo and Dirtiest Part 3

OK sandy you messed up. Dog poo on a compost pile is good if the dog ate dog food. Especially cheap dog food. I have had a bad week finding out that my dear Border terrier Kip bit the UPS guy so the free run of life is gone. I had to build a dog kennel to keep my dear monsters locked up. So what do I put on the surface of my "gulag" to keep the dogs able to use it as soil yet keep it to compost the doo doo and the cover substrate. I decided to use pellets for wood stoves. What do you think Kenton o-great one? I think this is perfect I can compost the scoops and put them in their own compost pile. The wood is non-toxic and when you wet it down it turns into sawdust and ? that glues it together. What do you think o great one?
Sue don't listen to Kenton on the fish stuff. Nitrogen is nitrogen and all of it goes back in the soil as nitrogen. (Except the Hydrogen sulfide that leaves the pile) Also forget about competing with the master gardener. They are only people without common sense and have to learn in classes from those of us with it to see how to best build soil. So...... Learn how to compost with that wonderful machine and keep pileing up anything you can steal, borrow, retrive to make you compost cook and you will in no time KICK HER BUTT!

Get a cup of tea before you read this blather, or just skip it:

That article savoured of some odd preconceived conclusion or agenda.
It makes me think:
"Goofball 'Scientists' rediscover composting. Farmers say they knew the secret about the mysterious decomposition process all along. World is stunned. Further investigation into this conspiracy to come."
I have my theories. The first one is that someone has reached a conclusion and is now suffering from the confirmation bias of justification... It ain't scientific, but human...

I am pro fish-gut, just be sure to bury it deep. That is, unless you enjoy lying awake for two nights with the terrific screeching of cat-fight food-fight.

Sandy, only a few plants would be sensitive to the material decomposing in close proximity to the roots, the alphalpha pellets will add more organic matter- great! Just don't let it be a great glob.

Just don't put Dog dung compost near your veg bed, mate. Apparently, the parasites are not rare at all, as you are sure to know in your esteemed profession. Sorry to hear about the puppy being sent to the warsaw ghetto of Montana. Pellets for stoves? Brilliant. Ingenuity as good as it gets. I have seen fine woodchips used to great success. Tell us how it goes. Doggie-litter...

Now, old man, I must defend the Master Gardener program. But not master gardeners. They are forgetful lot of buggers and can't retain the curriculum. Would you use those funny aerator-shoes? Plastic rigid sandals with four-inch pikes mounted to them? ...Some things defy "common sense" within research-based information. But most of it is just more complex common sense.

Sue, I agree with Steve: "pileing up anything you can steal." What you need is a great swath mass planting of some annual so bright it is vulgar. Or some plant that is so offenseively disproportionate like a castor bean. Some great vine that crawls up your housefront... A vine that is so vigorous and vicious it eats your neighbor entirely... Build up a well-drained hill of lumusy soil and get yourself a hardy banana. A show plant that is so bizarre, the local auto body repairman sees nothing but bumper and fender scratches for weeks... Good design is important too, but that's up to your talents, I think!
If the only amendment she (neighbor) is using is 10yr horse manure, you can beat her with composted fresh manure and coarse materials (oxygen penetration). And top-dressing. Baa reminded us on the first thread that variety is critical in the long run as far as amendment.
Steve, don't you think that ten years means a pretty good loss of actual organic content?
Kenton

This picture is for you, Steve. What is more natural than maroon Clematis and the orange/blue of Denver Broncos? Augh.

Mmmm. Coarse material....

After my cat got sick from the cheap food and cost us alot of money a long time ago, It has been the better foods ever since. It reall isn't that much more in cost because they eat less and the smell is quite different on their shin and what they leave on the ground.

I guess I should have said "Your word is no better than dog poo from a meating dog, on a compost pile" It that better?

James I sprinkle the pelltes around if I am planting right then, otherwise I dig the hole and mix them in with orchid moss, and some of the composted turkey, horse, and whatever manure that is in that bag. I don't use much of it either,

I love what I learn here about composting.

Well i do have some stinging nettle comming my way so i think i will plant some around her castor plants, which i m pretty ticked off about, i have kids and i believe they are poisonuos, so if she dare plant them near my half !! up go the stinging nettles. she hates mild weed!! with a passion!!!! so of course being a good loving american of nature and love monarch 's i planted abut a hundred seeds on the propery line .
WHen the rain stops i m going to trim her trees for her, they hang on my side and i get ticks all over me and t he kids when we walk or i mow under them, yuk.
I new aged manure was good , but yes Kenton i thought the 10 yr stuff would be to old and sterile, and then she paid for no less duh, we live in the country, it all around us for free. huh go figure.
ok so when the rain stops , i m going to try my tumbler again steve, i have the tumbler fear. I think i have a pretty good layer going of material,
If you treat your lawn with weed and feed can you still use it in your compost ? Kenton ,? Steve?
Hey guess what i found in my barn ? an old bag of leaves !!!!! from last yr hahaha what a joy. so i layered it in my cold frame with my lettuce, there wasn't much .
sue

Oh dear, folks, the heat is on and the game is dirty...

My dogs have been coexisting fine with my castor forest. (chewed on too!?) I think your secret weapon, now that nuclear categories are up, could be a vine. Don't trim the tree, just plant a nice little Polygonum aubertii under it- I'll send a seedling to you! Let it eat her tree... Maybe Morning glory 'Star of Yalta' or 'Milky way' for the first volley. How about Phyllostachys aurea? I'll bet she would LOVE that! How about planting the classy Toxicodendron?

It is said to let weed & feed applications age for a few weeks before you go using it in compost. I have never experienced it, but apparently some pesticides will hang around. Everything has a degrading time. Roundup is perfectly fine, however.
K.

I hate computers but love the internet...

Sue, if you can find the chemical name of your "weed and feed," then perhaps you could find a statement like this about it: (This is about Roundup, from Cornell)
" Microbiological degradation is the major cause of decomposition of
glyphosphate in soil. Depending on soil and microfloral population
types, varying rates of decomposition occur, producing for example,
from 10 to 60% 14CO2 from glyphosate - C14 over growing season time
periods or less. Normally the half life is less than 60 days. "

Dude, if you want biological/chemical jargon, talk to me...I'm a pro. :)

pam

LOL..thats funny re the scientists discovering mulch...
What was interesting though is that the soil is still fertile after a few hundred or (thousand) years..

Yeah...scientists can be real twits way up there in their little ivory towers. :)

pam

Boy I have a busy day saving lives and this turns into a turf war. Now Sue you need to relax, read your good book and remember to love your neighbor as yourself. Think of the tree limbs as part of your landscape and utilize the shade for making your garden shine. No massive plantings of annuals, anybody can do that. Start every year to build a unique array of mounds, rocks, raised beds and Perenials in such array that you will see drool running down the neighbors fence. Holes will be drilled in it to peak at the unique flowers you have planted and the beautiful foilage of the delicate Cimicifuga, whirling butterflies, and any wonderful creation you inhabit. The only thing is always offer her cut flowers, divided perenials, unique shrubry that has out lived its usefullness in you expanding garden. HeeHee
Kenton I got some of that old manure and it had grown a few weeds. It was in contact with the ground and still I feel contained structure, some nitrogen, and best of all when moistened became a harbor for all the soil builders (bacteria) when combined with fresh compost.
I wouldn't want to depend on it to build up my soil though. Sue needs to put it in her next batch of drummed compost.
Oh yeah Kenton love the Broncho colors on the helmeted mail box. But If I remember the last season right, wasn't it the Seahawks who ran to the end? (and fell flat on their face). Arrrrrrrgh.
And yes I use weed and feed clippings in my compost pile. After all it is there for at least 6 months and all the chemical activity left long ago. Yes there are still by product chemicals but no dammage seen in my garden. I think that if 3 mile island was covered in compost it would be healthy in 3 years.

I guess you could say it is 'war of the roses LOL' hehehehehehehe
Ok love thy neighbor hmm must have missed that day . lol
ok so good to know about the weed and feed, i think it is just Scotts brand. The one that is for crab grass , i have been mowing for days!!!!!we have to treat for crab instead of dandilions due to the neighbor doesn't do anything so her weeds is always in my yard and her CRABS!!! AHAHAHAHA get it crabs ahahahhha.
must go son is having a i need mommy moment and is crying hsi head off
sue

Kenton ? castor beans and the plants poisonous? and how poisonous? When a plant says that it is poisonous does that mean you will die? or just get so sick you wish you were dead?
I will admit i like Kenton s idea , fight back with foliage hahaha!!! aaarg :)
but alas my lads i am a of only a simple gal who leads a simple life, "OH, @#$% i can't stand it, i m pathetically passive in nature !!! darn it all to heck.
I can't plant to many flowers ,remeber trying to sell the house.I did put some tidal wave pitunias in my rock garden in the front. I think it will look cool with it weeping over the rocks .
Remember i tilled , so we have 4 more days of rain and today went out to get some of my tomatos (100 ) back in the garage cuz it was getting a bit to cold and windy. I stepped in the dirt and sunk to my ankles, wlll almost my ankles but you get he drift. Is this a good thing or bad. i do have it on a slant my garden but was also wonder if i should add some perlite or peat? to help with aeration ? or sand?
sue

Fava Beans can be fatal if you hang around people who mix them with special meat types. (Silence of the Lambs) Many plants are toxic and some are deadly. It varies with each plant with the severity. Sue I once had a client who had a dog with many little crab like critters walking all over the dog. Well I had to explain where these came from and she finally caught on. She was scratching a lot herself and she then asked where people got these. I felt sorry for her husband that night.
You have experienced why tilling of fine soil is not a good idea. The compaction of wet tilled soil is what you were experiencing. I would have tilled some major bark, wood chips, manure with your compost. Like Kenton says that large pieces contribute to less settleing and more oxygenation.
Ok last Sue you need a punching pillow where you can learn to thump on those who make you angry. Hit the pillow. Those who grow crabgrass, hit the pillow. Those who are demanding your attention, hit the pillow. Often it is good to make a life like replica of your most hated person. (NOT YOUR HUSBAND)
Just a shot tonight out the front yard of the tidal pool. 4 more hours before sunset.

Hard to do with the Dh gone , he was going to help me add some sand, but he left for Mexico for work.
well i hope it stops raining soon and i can get some plant s in the ground.
thththff thththhd thththhtf fava beans Clarece
i made a voo doo doll once lol
so what can i do woth the soil in my yard, you said add wood chips , should i add more LLama poop? when it dries out and turn it by hand, ? will this change my ph ? to high?
I ust don't have the help i need, my hip is totalled!! gone," well ",the cartiladge is gone it is a loose hip joint i have" man i sound like an old woman"
Love the pic , very prety
sue

Just don't step on the soil again. It will be eaier on you to just top-dress with your amendments of bark and composts. (I cringe when I accidentally trip or fall, ending up sinking into that lovely stuff!)

Rj: the plants grown in the rich soil are healtheir and more productive (and therefore make more compost-litter themselves. As far as there being deep, deep topsoil, this is not worm's dongs, carrying that material so deep, there is no oxygen once you go so deep. Conditions for ultra deep topsoil can be described by geologists and is no big mystery. I know a orchardist who grows a nice bunch of apples, peaches, et cetera in 15' topsoil that was pileed up there by river-action. Fact is, though, the fertility in the lower parts starts to decrease with time. (Other conditions like not too much water to leach out the nutrients, or collection of nutrient runnoff from other places...)
Thinking on it, these briliant scientists probably just found what is known in the scientific world as a valley. Everyone in this forum knows that the dark soil they have encountered is a further complicated thing called compost-rich soil! "Boy, what is that?" they say, having all grown up in big cities and educated in a stark grey building of only 34 floors...

The Ricinus communis (Castor beans) are rated the #2 deadliest plant (seeds). Rosary pea seeds are #1. Both are gorgeous. Eating a Castor bean's single seed makes a person very sick, more than that is loosing at poker with the reaper. The rest of the plant can cause rash or burning; working with it is the only time I wear gloves.

Steve, wouldn't you rather not have ill feelings at all, (although I must admit to owning some very soft pillows that did not start out that way...) When I am irratioanly angry (there is no other kind of angry, I reckon) I tend to dig something. I dig giant pits that usually end up being filled with compost or amendments. This has only happned twice in recent history, one place now has a hybrid southern/sweetbay magnolia and the other has carrots.
I truly, in all non-sarcastic honesty, like Steve's garden idea best. A garden reflects the love and time put into it. There is no faking a real garden of love.

Who is this over-talkative fellow above?
Kenton

You have hit the nail on the head. (Another good way to dump anger, build something). A garden built the way that makes you feel good, proud, complete, happy, creative, and full of desire to continue is the most beautiful garden in the world. If you hip is painful and lifting is hard just scatter and wait for the miracle of color to bloom. My wife has RA and I keep her hard at work with chores in the garden. For without her my garden would end.
Kenton if you are referring to Mr Fava Beans just remember "the silence of the lambs"
Anyway if I had no anger then I would be numb to the world around me. Today I got angry with people who let their 2 pit bull dogs run free and mauled a wonderful dog named Wheezy. She is fine now but the pit bulls are dead. I miss them both even though they needed to be with an owner who trained and cared what happened to them. Yes give me that pillow. POW!
Now Composting issues. Wood chips, sawdust, branches, pine needles, straw and many other items have been tossed into the richest soils for eons. All work well in making the soil permeable to Oxygen, rain, worms, (what are worm d...gs Kenton? Spell check), and water all like to hang out around these in compacted soils. That is why I put them in.
Past 9:30pm and the sun is beginning to set.

Castings. Worm castings, you happy duck.
I just read an article in AARP (no jokes, please) about a dog named Wheezy in the hurricane and pet-rescue policy.

ok so you are saying ok to add for aeration ? worms , have those but maybe not enough. i think i will go out and save the ones that are lounging in awater bath on my driveway and put them in my compost
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woops sorry 3 yr old son attacked comp lol
hmm why would anyone platn castor beans if so deadly? i mean if you have kids around? she better plant them far away from my side, my son love to eat plants!!!! loves the dandylions :) picks my lettuce in the garden eats away , hunter gatherer kind of kid, brings you everything he can carry, big rocks too.
Ok no more walking on dirt in garden, i m going to the HD today to get string and posts to make a boreder and an outline to mark the areas of veg growth .so my kids can walk on other areas and not on the vegs, my strawberrries are alsmost gonners from my son and his dump truck uuuhhg
Kenton why are you reading AARP you are a young ,handsome, babe. so why AARP? My dad refuses to join !!! denial .
sue

alright time to take action
I m going to HD and get wood and make some beds for the garden , then i will have my teenager shovel all the dirt in the beds. I m a woman on a mission "ah ah ah ahg" ( tim allen grunt) . Then my FIL will help me saw the corner with our mieghter saw ( did i spell that right ) ? well you know the saw that makes corners oooh and i found a jig saw i m in heaven.
ok we are on it, any advice ?
sue

Okay- So not so amazing then!? - although everything is pretty amazing to me at the moment having just discovered the power of good soil, and having seen and help create a clay, wormless area into a brilliant and vibrant area that is swimming with worms and rendering a garden I only use to dream about.
hmm. I knew castor beans were poisoness but didn't know about handling them.

OK sue calm down. Are you building raised beds? Use the skill saw much easier. Don't forget to make a plan to set your beds so you can eventually have paths and garden strolls through the project in the years to come. Maybe the best thing for your garden is to build a sand box first for the 3year old. Then tonka won't be excavating your radishes.
I refuse to join AARP also because it is designed to entertain older people who sit on their couches all the time. At age 52 I never sit on my couch. Maybe I'll Start at 65 or so. Then is when AARP should send the membership. NOT 50!
Yeah I spent the night with a cat named Luke who was in diabetic coma and had to titrate insulin all night and keep the metabolic acidosis from killing him. He is doing much better this am. I think he like me.

Some how I don/t think you will sit around at any age. My great Grandmother was jet setting at 80- she never stopped moving until she passed! --the premise being...once a mover..always a mover!

I agree. My grandmother lived to 99 and had 6 months of illness before she died. At age 92 she was visiting our house (still driving). I saw her walking out to her car with a cup of sugar. Well she was dumping the sugar in her trunk and I thought she had lost it so I called my mom. I said Grandma has stroked she is dumping sugar in her trunk. Well my mom just laughed and said. You grandmother is so busy at age 92 visiting her friends she has to bring her pickels she is canning to sugar them enroute.

Rj: Rich soil and the awesome design of the whole process is still amazing.
Sue: think stepping stones or paths. And sandbox... Or train him to turn the compost with his toy trucks. Castor beans are giant, glorious & gargantuan!

Mobile pickle service...

Mission imcomplete
couldn't find anyone to get the wood for me at HD, the one that was on sale was on top shelf, waited for 20 min then said " i will go somehwere else .
Here are some pics of my dads garden, don't have any of my own so i have to show off my dads. lol
what do you think of his soil? hahaha remember he sends me sampls in the mail LOL i wonder what his ph is , it would be fun to see if i can get him to do a soil sample.
I sent him tomato seed. THe area that is shown is where thay are going.
How tall does the wood have to be 5 3/4 " I though abuot useing the deck boards for them?
sue

Wonderful; I wonder wwhat that low reddish stuff is in the bottom picture.

yes i will have a path layerd with straw to walk on. Sand box too next to garden.hahha
My inlaws are ones who don't stop going, that is key to life , keep on trucking.
poor kitty, hope he does better.
Kenton I don't knwo what hte red stuff is , I called my dad and he doesn't remember, a ground cover of some sort, if you are talking abut the flowers
moblie pickel service heheheeh cute .
I do have a skill saw too, ok gotcha. My FIL is going to help me , he nows what he is diong.
He grew up in a green house, his mom and dad were nursery people , he tells me all kinds of neat stories about his youth and the greenlhouse business. He gave me a book ,his mom used with her business, all her notes in it. Awesome stuff. teenage dauhter has talked me into Wyannes World to watch tonight, must go
sue

Taynors

Enjoy that 3 year old who plays in the dirt with a dump truck. I had one of those who has turned into a 15 year old with size 12 feet. It's amazing how quick that kid can dig a hole for a plant. I taught him to weed at age 9, and plant at age 11 and transplant at age 14. Now, for Mother's Day, he is going to spend the afternoon in the garden with me getting the hard parts shaped up. He is even getting interested in the composition of soil, read the terra preta article etc.....now if I could only get him to commit to a horticultural degree rather than history and latin........HM

i hear you herbmoxie :))))
I have a 15 yr(16 in aug) too and it seems like yesterday she was 3. I can't believe in 2 yrs she will be legally responsible for herself !!!!!!! uuuhhg
sue

Yes - I did put stepping stones and access areas...I planned a dry section for plants that like it dry. The only thing I didn't count on was how big zinnias..get..I planted about 9 different kinds, and alot of them are rather tall. I like them quite a bit-- they seem to tolerate the hot sun here.

And here.

Many mothers would kill to see their son in history or latin.

Happy mum's day, mums! We twit kids really appreciate you!

Kenton

I like to keep up loads short so on to the next rethread. Soferdig http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/602092/

This message was edited May 14, 2006 5:46 PM