Elderberry as a small tree

I was thinking of using my potted elderberry as a small tree after putting it in the ground. I can't seem to find many pictures of them grown this way. I'm assuming they would have to be pruned similar to crape myrtle or vitex. I would like it to have no more than three trunks. Anybody have them as a tree?

I'm not sure that sambucus canadensis is conducive to this treatment, if S. canadensis is indeed the one you have. I grew it at my former residence, and found it to be a suckering, cane-ish plant. Seldom did any significant laterals ever form.

Incidentally, I used to prune it in the winter, and as a lark one year I stuck all of the cut off shoots deeply into the ground. Every one of them lived.

Scott

I ran across this S. canadensis 'Aurea' at the Minnesota arb. I'm not sure it qualifies as tree form, but nice none the less. And yes, it was sending up suckers all around it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/maackia/Woody%20Stuff/Deciduous%20Shrubs/HPIM1649.jpg
This message was edited Apr 15, 2006 5:13 PM

This message was edited Apr 15, 2006 5:15 PM

We have elderberry "trees" in our backyard along the fence that are about 15 feet tall. I leave them there because they furnish good food for the birds. However, they are quite invasive and come up everywhere a seed falls.
I like their beautiful flowers like Queen Anne's Lace and the shiny black berries. The mockingbirds love them. They grow wild in this part of southeast Louisiana. Many people make wine with the berries--excellent for wine, and some people make pies. The thick stems are hollow and little boys make pea shooters out of them.

Yes Maackia, that is the look I was thinking of! I think it would be like crape myrtles, I get out there about once a week with my little hand snippers and cut out the suckers from the base.

You might be able to grow one of the tree-form species there in your zone, like S. caerulea or its Mexican relative/subspecies. They do become small trees even without training.

Guy S.

Guy,
That reminds me of the question 'what is the difference between a tree and a shrub?" I have asked it without ever really getting an answer. It's not size - is it single stem?
Al

If it has more than about three stems, it looks like a shrub in my opinion.

I have crepe myrtles with multiple trunks and they are called trees. Yeah, Starhill, please identify the meaning of tree for us.
Happy Easter.

There is no "technical" difference between a tree and a shrub. Except most people think of shrubs as topping out at 20 feet or so, having mutiple trunks, and usually wider than tall. Trees are thought of as having one main trunk and an elevated head.They're usually grouped together, as "woodies", plants with lignified tissues or woody stems.

PartyGirl hit it on the head -- viewing lignin as the common denominator. I think of trees as woody plants you can stand under, and without the propensity to keep sending up new canes (stems) from the base. Some board of censors once said "I can't define a tree, but I know one when I see one" (ooops, wait, I think that was pornography!)

As LOL said, some species can mature into tree form or remain in shrub form depending upon growing conditions and pruning techniques. In the coastal or alpine Krumholz, even large-growing species of ancient age can remain shrubs.

Various organizations define them in different ways for purposes of categorization (e.g., champion tree lists don't include "shrubs" and shrub books aren't supposed to include "trees") but the gray areas never seem to resolve completely. It seems to be a human weakness to try to pidgeon-hole everything in nature.

The question is analogous to asking the difference between an apple and a crab apple. It's arbitrary and clinal. Dave's did a very smart thing here when they made a "Trees AND Shrubs" forum!

Happy Easter back atcha! It's almost time to hang the moss too.

Guy S.

If there is one rule in botany I have learned, it's:

There are no unbroken rules in the natural world.

As was said, definitions are arbitrary and don't always hold true; but they're the best we got.

Rick