Is there any way to know which kind of Wisteria you have? I have looked at different pictures of leaves and can not tell the difference.
Wisteria are beautiful and heavenly fragrant here. I grew up with wisteria all my life (don't know what kind). I have been trying to get it to grow where I have lived now for 20 years and it won't live. I currently have a 3ft in a pot. The only plants invasive at my house are poison ivy, oak, and briar weeds! I can barely keep anything else alive with our ground horribly compacted dense clay, even with adding ammendments (compost, hay, leaves, mulch, veggies, fruits, corn cob grit, manure out the wazoo, frertilizers, gypsum, etc, etc) over all the years I have been here. ~~~ Carol
Wisteria
Purchase the non-invasive Wisteria frutescens or W. frutescens cultivar from a reputable nursery.
You could also take photos of your leaves and post them over in the identification forum we have and chances are pretty good someone will be able to tell you whether or not you have an exotic invasive or not. It's tough telling the difference.
Equilibrium, hi, I have been away a long time. Trying to catch up on months and months of missed yakking. I noticed that you said the Butterfly Bush was invasive. I have had one for about 14 years and never any trouble. Are there different kinds? I was also told that the "clumping bamboo" would not be a problem in my area. But I do know about the other kind! And, oh! The wisteria. I love the scent but it takes over everything down here plus attracks giant bees! Believe me, the last thing I want is ANYTHING that grows on a runner or one more invasive plant on my property! I can't keep up getting rid of what was left by previous owners!
Thanks for any info. Don't know if this should be a different thread or not.
Hey Mollie, how be you! Buddleia is Buddleia is Buddleia. There's a thread here somewhere started by somebody that is titled the Butterfly Bush has to go or something like that. It's here in invasive plants. That might be a good thread to read for you as if my memory serves me... it doesn't a lot lately... that thread covered the basics. If you have that plant, you might want to seriously consider digging it up and bagging it to put out with the garbage.
Asian Wisteria is most assuredly beautiful but I'd have to agree with how judycooksey started this thread regarding those plants. For me, the native Wisteria blooms better anyway and it is considerably better behaved.
Equilibrium, Thanks! I will check for the Buddleia thread. I have no use for anything invasive! And I didn't know there was more than one kind of Wisteria. Guess everyone around me has the naughty kind!
Many people around me have the naughty ones too so don't feel bad.
Mollie, do you deadhead your buddleia regularly? It becomes a problem when its seeds get everywhere, so if you're deadheading yours regularly before it has time to set seed that could be why you haven't found seedlings everywhere (either that or they're winding up in your neighbor's yard and you just haven't seen them!). It's also more of a problem in some parts of the country than others (as is the case with many invasive plants)...although with your warm temps and nice amount of rain I'm assuming that would be great conditions for it to spread out of control!
Burn Buddleia!
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/580143/
Mangle Mimosa!
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/599628
(then hussle over to plant or seed trading, and see all the trading that continues on, with nary a thought....sigh)
I guess I need to post a picture of the wisteria and find out what kind it is. Also I have what I thought is a butterfly bush I got from my mom who grows everything. Her's is not invasive and mine doesn't do anything. Barely lives in my ground. Actually the last one I had in the ground died. The one I have now is in a pot, but still hasn't grown much and NEVER has bloomed. Maybe I'm lucky if these really are the bad plants. ~~~ Carol
caganimalover, I don't think you should risk planting the potted wisteria. I used to love it, too. Childhood memories. I didn't realize many, many years ago that there was more than one kind. I'm not even sure the native wisteria is even sold anymore! This is part of what I wrote in another thread about a little wisteria plant that I planted, oh, maybe 15 years ago but kept chopping it down because it was always trying to crawl under the siding and over other plants:
"Yesterday I started digging to plant the Amelanchier. Only a few shovels and I ran into wisteria. I am sure it's Chinese because that is where the roots were heading. I had been routinely cutting this monster down for years, This summer a friend and I cut out the "stump". I thought I was finally finished with it. There were a few small viney leaves that came up after the extraction, but I hand applied RU and thought that would be the end.
Wrong, The underground roots were massive and extensive laterally as well as deep. I traced each one to get it out whole. (I had read here that nothing could be left behind.) I ended up not digging but excavating a huge area, in a few places making holes so deep that ground level was above my knees. I gave up on two big roots in very deep holes because I had hit clay and only went about another foot after that. Is there any hope they will rot? Three feet down, the last of which is clay? "
I do believe that those remaining roots are going to surface again, though it may take a few years. Keep wisteria as a fond memory.
my, my....
What evil lurks beneath your yard, notgrnjean!
It's not supposed to be invasive here, but I've been eyeballing the one I planted when we moved in two and a half years ago. It hasn't bloomed yet, but it's put on some growth.
(I just nailed the last buddleia, which I bought in the spring having been told by the grower it was a native type - no such thing for CA. No remorse, 'cept I'm sorry I spent the money, since buying natives is not cheap!)
4paws, I hope that is my only past indiscretion that is buried out there. I will avoid that side of the house on Halloween night!
I think that it takes a few years for wisteria to bloom, maybe because all its energy is going into subterranean growth. Perhaps you could place one of those underground barriers that I've read about for bamboo - just in case.
Nah, I'm just gonna nail it. There are plenty of interesting things I can grow.
Your story has the gist of a fifties sci fi flick.
ecrane3, No, I don't deadhead my Buddleia. I did when I first got it but have sort of let things go the last few years. The school I taught at 4 bushes that were there for at least 20 years and they never self-seeded. And, believe me, maintaince didn't do any deadheading! They cut them back about every three or four years. And my brother has them in St. Louis with no problem. Now I have lousy soil but he doesn't. We gave my dad who lives in Ohio one because he loved it so and it was the only thing that ever died on him. It didn't make it through the winter. I bought it as a "Butterfly Bush" and have looked at all the pics and it is definitely a Buddleia. I don't know what to make of it!
Nobody mentions the Muscadine vine and it grows wild down here and is almost as bad as Kudzu! But people still plant it! And I still go through my woods killing it. I don't care if it is native! It chokes the life out of the trees.
Funny, funny world we live in! But I will definitely check the "invasive" list before buying plants - even the so-called "natives."
MollieB, although I've only been seriously investigating for a few months what I might plant, it is quite discouraging to find that almost all commercial endeavors large or small sell invasives routinely. That won't change until we consumers become more educated and don't buy invasive stock. If sellers get stuck at the end of season with ever increasing leftovers of burning bushes, butterfly bushes, vinca, etc., less with be ordered in each successive year. If demand for non-invasives increases, more will be stocked each successive year. Practical business decisions, that's all it is.
Right on, notgrnjean.
Just 'cause we don't see it seed in front of us, doesn't mean it isn't somewhere down the road.
We consumers have more power than we often accept the responsibility for.
Oh, please do not misunderstand me! I am in full agreement with you. Frankly, it seems that just about anything that grows on a vine is invasive where I live. Wild strawberries have taken over my yard and clover. When my first garden failed because I was trying to plant my Yankee garden in the south, I went gung ho for the "Natives". Well, I quickly learned that a lot of them are awful! And by native I mean they were growing here when the Europeans came over. So now I search for native and endangered or rare. I have quite a few books on what were in the eastern forests when the Indians lived here. I live in the foothills of the Blue Ridge. The poor part – not the gated community part! :)
What I don't get is why the government still allows plants to come into this country given the problems that the southeastern states have had with Asian and South American plant and animal life taking over! Not only will I not buy, I will destroy at every chance! My list just keeps getting longer and longer though!
I have this huge clump of tall grass in my back yard. When I bought the house there were two of them. I thought they looked dumb where they were and looked up what they were. A friend wanted one of them. Well, it took a large tractor, pick-up truck and two broken logging chains to get that sucker out. The larger one remains and is getting bigger. I discovered it on the undesirable list after reading this thread. "Miscanthus"! I already hated it and now I really do but don't know how to get rid of the stupid thing. But it is also listed as a native grass on many sites. I don't know nor care if it is native. It has to go. Any ideas?
Poor Mollie.
Fortunately I learned about miscanthus after I bought it, but before I planted it. Thanks, folks here!
Yes, this is one thread I am really going to stay on top of! I feel terrible that I passed that monster on! I had been thinking of putting an ad in the paper that anyone who wanted the other one could have it if they could get it out! Thanks to you all, it will not be passed on! One way or another, it will be DEAD!
Mollie, next spring when the Miscanthus starts to emerge, spray some Round-Up on it. I got one that way. About mid summer, it was pretty mushy and my husband went at it with the spade. There are a lot of native alternatives for the Miscanthus.
Thanks, I wondered if Round-Up would handle it because it is HUGE! When do you mow it down. I just found out that I was supposed to be doing that! Boy, I have a lot to learn!
Any suggestions for native grasses in zone 7b would be greatly appreciated also. I am reading so much conflicting advice!
What are you reading that is conflicting?
Since you really don't want it, I'd be mowing it down now. I'd probably wait till spring when it's actively growing to apply the Round-Up though. Grasses provide some winter interest, so it really isn't necessary to cut them down in fall. I've never mowed any of my grasses, I don't want to compact the soil around the plants. I just used my pruners and cut them down. I did a quick search, using Native Grasses for South Carolina....here's a few that came up.
http://www.scnps.org/articles/grasses.html
This one looked interesting
http://www.carolinawild.com/welcome.html
http://www.scwf.org/articles/index.php?view=167
There's also an Indigenous forum here at DG where you might want to ask there. Hope this helps somewhat!
It seems all of the wisteria I see in nurseries lately are the native variety "Amythest Falls". At least that's one thing they are doing right.
Equilibrium
I keep reading to plant native and that is what I really would like to do. Then I turn around and it is on a list as being invasive or a trouble plant - don't plant it! I think it was here that I read the Butterfly Bush was bad. Well, I have had one for years and my county extension recommends them. But some lists say they are invasive. Well, I planted one 16 years ago and I still have just one and no one (6 houses on a 2 mile looped road) else has any. So how invasive can it be?
Common names Mollie... common names. They'll get you every time just like they used to get me every time. I try real hard to use common names when I can or when I know them to post in the threads but for myself personally, I've stopped using them completely. Far too confusing and I ended up planting plants that were not what I wanted here at all. .
Let's take Barberry for example. Do you know how many of those there are out there? There are the Barberries that are documented as being invasive and then there are the mild mannered Barberries that are indigenous. You almost have to go by the Latin name if you don't want to get stuck buying and planting something that you won't want in the long run.
What judycooksey was referring to was probably a Chinese Wisteria (Wisteria sinensis) or Japanese Wisteria sometimes referred to as Florida Wisteria which further muddies the waters as we start assuming it is indigenous to Florida (Wisteria floribunda) and those are both Asian plants. The North American indigenous Wisteria (Wisteria frutescens) as well as ALL of its cultivars would be "safe" for you in my humble opinion although there are native plant purists who will not use cultivars in their landscapes. Well, I'm not a native plant purist unless I'm working in a natural area.
Regarding the Butterfly Bush, same deal. Most of the most popular ones are most certainly documented as having naturalized or as being highly invasive and destructive to natural ecosystems when they escape cultivation. Those would include all of the exotic introduced species such as Buddleia davidii also frequently spelled Buddleja davidii and:
B. alternifolia
B. lindleyana
B. saligna
B. asiatica
BUT- there are several Buddleia that are mild mannered Texan and southwesterd natives of North American and that list of Butterfly Bushes would include:
B. marrubiifolia
B. racemosa
B. utahensis
B. sessiliflora
B. scordioides
For where you live, just as where I live, there are no Butterfly Bushes that are indigenous for us regardless of whether they are exotic aliens or NA native Butterfly Bushes.
Now regarding what ever list you are using, know the creator. Who created the list of plants to which you are referring?
Equilibrium, I get my list of what to plant in this area from the Clemson County AG ext. list. They train the Master Gardeners and do soil tests, etc for SC. I am trying to remember where I read about the invasives. Actually I think it was on Invasive Board where some one had put up a link to a list the Federal Governenment had banned or considered invasive. I am also very familiarl with the Florida Government lists of invasive and banned plants. I used to live there. Whenever I check out a list for something I try to make sure that it is a US government list of the County Ex. of a state. Does that answer your question?
I will say that when I got into gardening of this size I didn't know anything about cultivars! Or Latin names. I now realize how important they are. But I still have plants that I don't know what the cultivar is. I let a newbie landscaper help me. I don't think she knew much either!
Ah, I've been zapped by my county extension office before. Mine is still recommending Fraxinus spp., Ulmus parvifolia, Acer platanoides, Alnus glutinosa, Phellodendron amurense, Pinus nigra, and Robinia pseudoacacia. And, you can go to their website and click on links to where they have specific recommendations of where they should be used. So sad. I no longer bother with lists created by our County Master Gardeners. There are some extension offices that have really great Master Gardeners who have kept abreast of environmental issues but, ours don't appear to have done so. Our extension office is more focused on turf, roses, tomatoes, crafts and composting. I do give them credit for one thing, they have removed Bradford Pears and Burning Bushes from their list of recommended plants.
I honestly don't know why your County Extension Office would be recommending any of the Buddleia that are exotic because their ability to naturalize is well documented. I also don't honestly know why I haven't heard of any County Extension Offices that have agreed to help battle destructive plants by voluntarily minimizing the spread of invasive species. I suppose I could see them recommending some of the Buddleia that are indigenous to other parts of the country because I can't think of any extensions offices that are pro-native plants per se although I'm sure there are some out there.
Now about those cultivars... boy did I get myself in trouble with many of those and I did it again this past summer with some Loosestrife which I bagged and pitched before I planted them when I went online to check the plant out. I can't tell you how much money I've lost ripping out cultivars of exotic invasives a few years ago that were allegedly "sterile".
Yes, I have had experience with Loosestrife. I got lucky on that one though. As to my county extension, I guess I should have figured that one out. I live in a state that leads the nation in heart disease, STD's, teenage pregancy rates, school dropout rates, etc. Our school test scores are always in the bottom 3. I am not native to the state but have lived here for 30 years after living 30 years in other states.
It comes as no surprise that their list is not exactly cutting edge when it comes to the envirnment. I won't even go into the various trouble parts of the state have had with drinking water because of things being buried or the government overlooking what our industries dump into the water. Yeah, all the laws are on the books but the courts just really "don't have the time" to bother with them.
So where do I go for the best info?
Thanks!
We have frequent boil orders around here because of the sheer numbers of Canada Geese and Bambis. Otherwise, our water is so so.
National Wildlife Federation has a site that offers a rather comprehensive listing of plants per state if you use their drop down menu and click on your State then click on a radio button below to choose the type of plant and click on go-
http://www.enature.com/native_invasive/
Just a suggestion but you could begin creating your own list by researching the native plant communities that exist in your county. You can start with organizations such as this-
http://www.scnps.org/
I began creating my own lists. There may be a research station around you that you could contact to ask for lists. They can be a wealth of information.
Then maybe start looking for nurseries such as this-
http://www.carolinawild.com/
Look at what plants these types of nurseries are offering for sale and then insert the Latin name into a search engine and see if it's a fit for your state and county. I have found that the list provided by nurseries that are 100% native and located in my immediate area have some really great ideas that are tailored to my area.
Equilibrium, Thanks! I belong to the NWF and have the eNature site bookmarked. I am on it all the time but am usually looking up animals or birds or something I found in the woods. I never noticed the list you are talking about. I will definitely check it out...as well as the others you suggested. I appreciate the help!
Hey Mollie! Glad you like the starter list.
Holy Cow, I checked out the scnps link and in April they are "branching out" and having a native plant sell in my dinky little town that most natives don't know exist. I printed it out real big and am putting it on the bulletin board! Thanks again! I am excited already!
Uh oh... Mollie's husband is going to hate me for posting that link!
Don't forget that at many native plant sales you can pre-order... tee he! I always pre-order when possible and still end up writing an additional check from my husband's check book.
OOHH, goody, thanks for the tip, Is it too early? :) I only have 4 months! :)
You'll have to contact them direct and ask if they allow pre-orders first. And no, it's not too early if they allow pre-orders. Tell your checkbook to forrrrrrrrrrrrrgivvvvvvvvvvvvvve me.
I am sure this summer this summer it wil :)
Well Mollie! What happened to your check book ;)
Can some one give advice on the best way to eliminate the asian wisteria? We bought a house that's had it for maybe 15 years? We killed a big part of it by drilling holes in it's base & pouring concentrated roundup in it, but it's got skinny runners under our deck... Have the same problem w/ artemisia, but figure that is better posted elsewhere. (Made the mistake of pulling it then tilling the soil. Problem got much worse.... Roundup isn't preventing it, wondering if best thing to do is cover w/ black plastic....) Thanks!
I wished I had an easy answer for you. I have some runners in my lawn that I have been mowing for about five years. I was hoping this year it would finally be exhausted, but there are more sprouts popping up now. My only suggestion is to use Brush-B-Gone rather than Roundup, it works better on vines and woody brush.