Road Trip to The Possibility Place

We went to The Possibility Place Nursery down in Monee Illinois this morning. I am very impressed with the quality of what they had... yet again. The entire family is always a pleasure to deal with. I picked up a couple of each of the following:
New Jersey Tea (Ceanothus americanus)
Juneberry (Amelanchier arborea)
Paw Paw (Asmina triloba)
Ironwood (Ostrya virginiana)
Bald Cypress (Taxodium distichum)
Smooth Hydrangea (Hydrangea arborescens)
Fragrant Sumac (Rhus aromatica)
Bladdernut (Staphylea trifolia)
Snowberry (Symphoricarpos albus)

They didn't have any 5 gallon Sassafras, Fringe Tree, or Persimmon. Bummer. I'll try back next spring with them to pick these up and I think I'd also like some more Hop Hornbeam.

Terryr... if you are out there in the threads, you really need to take a drive over there. You will definitely not be disappointed. Kevin_5 sent me to these people a few years ago and their plants are healthy healthy healthy and affordably priced.

Lauren! I just now found this thread. I called this morning and we're going Fri! I talked to him about the Liriodendron tulipifera and the Nyssa sylvatica. He doesn't recommend either tree for here. Bummer. He does have the hop hornbeam, so I know I'm getting that. Now I'm back to trying to figure out a street tree. He suggested one of the oaks. They have a few shrubs I'd love to get too. And I wouldn't mind the prairie crab....oh me oh my!

I bought Ostrya. I saw the Malus ioensis. Very nice plants. What about Gymnocladus dioica for a street tree? I'd probably go with Quercus macrocarpa or Q. bicolor which isn't just for swamps. Come to think of it, they had some nice Q. bebbiana there too. You'll have so much fun. Oh Terrrrrrrrrrrrry, they had Sambucus there and it was really nice. Their Ninebark was pretty darn nice too but I didn't need any of those. Why did Conner say the Liriodendron tulipifera wouldn't work for you? I can see the Nyssa sylvatica not working but the Tulip Tree?

Gymnocladus dioica, Kentucky Coffeetree is a possibility. Quercus macrocarpa can get 100 ft wide and my lot is only 60 wide. I "think" these are the ones he mentioned, Chinquapin Oak, Quercus muehlenbergii, or Hill's Oak, Quercus ellipsoidalis. I also think the Black Oak, Quercus velutina could work. The bicolor get too big and I'm not sure which one is the bebbiana? I can't seem to locate that one. Kevin told me to come up sometime and get the sambucus, so I don't think I need to buy any. He (I don't know who I was talking to, a man) didn't think the tulip tree would survive here. He thought it was really iffy. Dirr say both will go to zone 4. So I don't know. I think Nyssa would survive, but I don't have the place to protect it like he said it needs. I've got all the wires on the north side of house, so I have to be careful what I plant there. Unless I want the city guys to come thru and give whatever a hair cut. I already took out 2 cherry trees for that reason, plus they were heaving the sidewalk. I bought some ninebark last year, we'll see if it made it thru the winter. It should of, but you never know. I also want some American filbert and some bladdernut shrubs. I wish money was no object, but it is, so in time......

And I forgot........how big, tall, are the 5 gallon trees? Do I need my dads full size pick-up or will our ford ranger be big enough?

Hi, that Tulip Tree has been grown here and I think it would make it. Sorry about suggesting trees so big but I really like Oaks and I keep forgetting you are on a city lot. I'd steer clear of the Q. ellipsoidalis for a bit because that has issues of its own and is additionally a Red Oak. The Q. velutina (also a Red Oak) only has a spread of about 25' but it has real nice height. Unfortunately that muehlenbergii has a spread of around 55'-60'. The muehlenbergii would be real nice for a street tree although I still think the Bebb's Oak would be best given the area you are working in. The Bebb Oak only has a spread of around 40' with height of around 55'. The Bebb, Chinuapin, and the Burr Oak are all White Oaks. I spent a heck of a lot of time last year digging up and replanting all of my Red Oak saplings in an attempt to keep their root systems all away from each other when they mature. With where you live, you might want to consider a White Oak over a Red Oak as you will have no say so in what your neighbor plant.

You should be able to get the 5 gallon trees into your Ford Ranger just fine. Take a look at their New Jersey Tea when you go there. Actually, their American Hazelnuts were real nice too. I bet you'll like those real well.

Don't forget to bring a tarp or two to wrap or cover the trees in the truck if they are leafing out.

His tulip trees may be of more southern provenance(?), in which case they might not make it. Remember Dirr uses the Arnold Arboretum zone map too. There are a few nice tulip trees here in Minnesota U.S.D.A. zone 4a (and my yard), but many don't make it.

Rick

Well duh, I didn't even see the bebb oak! I've got my glasses on now :o) You're right, that one does look the best. I bought 3 new jersey teas last year, another one I'm waiting to see if it made it thru the winter. Right now, they're little twigs. As are my spice bushes. What is an American hazelnut? Am I overlooking it on their site? Ohhhhh wait! The filbert is the American hazelnut? My neighbor already complains about "all the trees" his wife planted years ago. They have 2 maples and something that must have gotten run over by a lawnmower and looks like a shrub, but I know it's a tree...just can't remember what he said it was. They barely mow and are hardly ever outside. I'm on a corner lot....ya know...as embarrassing as it is, I'll post a pic of the front of our house. You can't see my little twigs in there, but there really is stuff planted! And remember, we've only been here about a year. The tree in the front got chopped out today, as with some more of the privet on the left side. I'll get it all....soon. Would you believe we can pull those things out? No shovel, just pull on them and out they come. The lilac bush on the right is going bye bye also. That's where I thought about putting the prairie crab. Left, right, is all you looking at the pic. Oh gosh, I'm looking at the thumbnail of the pic and I did NOT put that baby blue siding up there! As soon as the roofer comes, he's going to remove one to see what's under it. The PO loved baby blue.........and I'm not sure if the lilac is shown. If not, it's probably just to the right of the pic. Or the privet for that matter.....it's almost on the lot line to the left.

Rick, from what I understand, these trees are grown from all local seed. This place is around 90 miles east of me. So, I don't think they're of southern provenance. I am dying for a tulip tree. I planted one at our house in TN...but we didn't live there long enough (we only stayed for 17 months) for me to see it really do much of anything. It did grow about 4 ft from spring to fall! But the BIG but is, I don't want a tree that won't make it. You don't think they wrap them in burlap or anything? Hmmm....gotta find a tarp now.....

I love your house!

American Hazelnut is Corylus americana is American Filbert. They had them there and they were nice looking. I thought he said he had gathered the Liriodendron tulipifera from Indiana somewhere but you better call him back and ask him. For $20 it might be worth a gamble if you love the tree.

Thanks Lauren....we've done so much work on the inside, and I'm not done yet in here....we've only just begun on the outside . It's what happens when you buy a house that's 110 yrs old. I demolish one thing and found 3 things to fix before I could fix the first thing.....but I do love this house. I just can't wait to paint the porch and see what's under that awful baby blue siding.....

You read my mind.....I just keep going back to how much I love that darn tree! Do I need to call him? I just can't "change my mind" when I'm there? I didn't mention to him the shrubs I was interested in. Come to think of it, I never said anything about the prairie crab either.

When I go looking for plants, I come knowing what I want and very rarely do I deviate. I'm not saying I know where I'm going to plant what I buy but I know what I am there to buy. Granted, they may have crop failures and some of the species on my list might not be available as was the case with The Possibility Place (they didn't have any Sassafras, Fringe Tree, or Persimmon which I had planned on purchasing) but I don't generally change my mind once I get to a nursery other than to maybe add another plant of one I was already planning on buying. That's just me though. I don't see any reason why you can't change your mind once you get there but I personally feel the need to bring lists otherwise I'll end up a pauper. Same concept as why I don't go grocery shopping when I'm hungry.

First off, I love older homes and I resent moving from my old home to where I live now. Our old home had character. It had nooks and crannies and an attic and bay windows and chimneys that had the initial of our last name in the brickwork (coincidence as we weren't alive when the home was built), gorgeous woodwork throughout from the stair cases to the book shelves to the moulding on the floor and ceiling and it had established landscaping that needed nothing but weeding. I loved that house and I miss all of my old neighbors. That being said, I prefer older homes like yours. I love the porch you have on your home. I love that attic area you must have above the living areas based on the little window up there. My home is newer and it is devoid of character. It looked like a face without eyebrows up until when we added the shutters. The builder had forgotten them and we never noticed until my Dad said the house looked like it was missing something. Sure enough, we never noticed it was missing all the shutters. Building a house is stressful and you get to the point where you just don't care any more as long as you can get in it with no more delays. I guess I could sum it up by saying that where you live looks like a home and where I live looks like a house... and yes, every time we fixed one thing on our last home we found 3-4 more things in need of attention but I didn't mind.

Lauren, I swear you must be over my shoulder! I've just spent the last 2 hours making a list. Whether I can afford everything or not is an entirely different story. So far, I have (using common names)
American Filbert
Bladdernut
Smooth sumac
Button bush
Common Witchhazel
Gray Dogwood
Wahoo
Winterberry
Prickly ash (not real sure, but it looks neat)
Withe Rod Viburnum

I'm debating on the tree, either a tulip poplar or the bebb oak. These are for sure, Hop hornbeam and the prairie crab.

Regarding houses....we built our first home way back in 82, one year after we were married. I had the whole thing landscaped (by me), the house had character because I added the character. I had, over the years, changed out just about everything. Including interior doors and all the trim. Bought a different front door, redid the kitchen, added hardwood in the kitchen, redid the bathroom, new vinyl, vanity, vanity top and faucet. I had oak plywood down the hallway, the bottom 1/3, with picture framing on the oak. It was just home and so much a part of me. Then we move to TN (for 17 months). We couldn't find an older house, so we went with new construction. The house was done on the outside, but no sheet-rock or anything inside. So, I picked it all out. Spent a lot of money getting it "my way". Repainted some of what the builder had painted. Landscaped like a mad woman. Just was doing everything to make it "home". Then Harper-Wyman goes belly up, and were bought out by a company we knew, we knew not just in our guts, but in our hearts, would send almost all the machines to Mexico. So we put the house up for sale down there, and Krista and I came "home". John continued working down there till he could find a job up here. Finally he did and had to take a huge paycut in the process. In between our house down there being listed and us moving back, I came up for 3 weeks to just visit and house hunt. I was specific in what I wanted. The Realtor took me to house after house and I kept saying, well you see, I want an open staircase, or why did they change this or that, add on, whatever. I don't want painted woodwork etc. Finally, he says, I know these people that had this house up for sale for 3 years and nobody bought, so now it's got renters in it. Would you like for me to contact them and see if they're still interested in selling? Of course! And I walked in here. It had this crappy carpet thruout the downstairs, vinyl in the kitchen, peel and stick in the 1/2 bath, hardwood showing in the dining room. Carpet all upstairs, including the stairs, and carpet and el cheapo tile in the full bath. Dining room has a pass thru cupboard. Big wide baseboards. Open staircase. Balcony upstairs (that peak on the right side above the porch? Last PO redid the porch roof and changed it. So the balcony is barely visible now. I'd love to put it back). Yep, huge walk up attic with hardwood floors too. I knew as soon as I walked in, this was my house. My eyes only saw the good, they ignored the bad and some of that bad cost boo coo bucks. We did what we could, hired the rest out. I have a beautiful coal burning fireplace that no longer is usable. Unless I rebuild the chimney, where again, the last PO had it knocked down where it came out of the roof. Except for the plaster, I gutted the whole upstairs bathroom and had everything reconfigured to make sense. And what's a 110 year old house without a claw foot tub? But, now I'm out of money. I do what I can inside as my funds allow. And of course, right now, my mind isn't on the inside, it's on the outside. Oh, and this house has 2 pocket doors....I love pocket doors. We (meaning my husband, my sister and I) refinished all the floors downstairs, and I had the bath (full up and 1/2 down) tiled, and we refinished Krista's room and ours. I really don't have a lot to finish up inside. I'm working on the spare room now. It need a skim coat and the woodwork stained and polyed. And all the doors for that room, plus Krista's closet door. Paint the walls and that room should be done, minus the floors being refinished. When it's done, I've got the hallway and the back area where the servant stairs is to finish. That area also has painted trim and the door to the attic is painted, so I need to strip it all. Fix the plaster walls. Then I just need to have someone make me some trim for the kitchen. To recreate the trim like the rest of the house. Oh and finish the rest of the floors upstairs. Down is maple, up is wide plank pine. If I got the right pic, here's the living rooom. The pic color lies to you, the color on the walls is directly out of the little 1x3 tiles surrounding the fireplace.

Terry:

Just a few comments on your choices, if you don't mind. You have picked some suckering machines in the Rhus glabra(smooth sumac), Filbert, Prickly Ash, and Gray Dogwood. I have pulled suckers up from my newly planted sumac that had travelled 15' in one growing season. The Filbert and Gray Dogwood spread more locally, but spread they do. There is a Filbert on the local walking trail that must be 20' tall and 20' around, with literally hundreds of stems. Also, you will need 2 withe rod Viburnums to get good fruit set. Make sure they were seed grown, which I think is all they do there. As for the trees, don't write off the Chinkapin Oak, as it has awesome unique leaves. Mine grew incredibly fast as well. Also, look close at the Hornbeam, Carpinus caroliniana, vs. your choice of Ostrya, the hop hornbeam. Carpinus has great leaves, unique smooth bark, and blazing red fall color. It stays smaller too. Ostrya can get very large. Just a few things to think about!

Kevin, I have somewhere between 50 to 75 ft of privet I'm removing. I wanted some suckering shrubs to fill it in, without having to buy 15 different plants, 5 of each. Follow my thinking? I definitely could do 20 ft. long, but not 20 deep. Would the Gray dogwood be less of suckering spreader? I had them in TN, again didn't get to see them do anything, so I really wanted one here. I also have what was listed as Viburnum Cassinoides Wild Raisin. Will that be good enough for Withe Rod? I was going for the Ostrya because it indigenous to my county. I will look at the Carpinus caroliniana. I thought Ostrya was only 30 tall and something like 20-30 wide? Does Possibility Place have the Carpinus and I'm just not seeing it? Want to meet us there and give some guidance? I was going to d-mail you and see if Fri would work for me to get the sambucus?

Gray Dogwood stays smaller than Corylus, that's for sure. The local versions might get 10' tall if they get leggy in shade, otherwise 6'x6' or so. They do form thickets in the wild, but I am not sure if that is from one plant or seed or ??? I planted some into a hedge row and they got about 5' x 4' in 4 years.

That Filbert I described is an exceptional plant. It must be decades old. You should be ok for many years with planting smaller plants.

Viburnum cassinoides is the latin name for the Withe Rod Viburnum so you are good to go.

Possibility Place should have Carpinus, common name Hornbeam, or musclewood. I got mine there years ago. I can't make it down to the nursery Friday, but you are welcome to stop for some Sambucus and whatever else I might have. How much Sambucus do you want?

Bummer, I was typing a reply to you earlier on this evening and there were problems with the site and it wouldn't post so I saved it and fell asleep at around 8pm. Gosh I hate it when that happens because then I'm up in the middle of the night for a few hours wide awake. Anyway, I'll second Kevin's comments on the Smooth Sumac, Prickly Ash, as well as the Gray Dogwood but go one step farther by telling you don't plant them or you might be miserable some time down the road. Those plants need room, lots of room. I've thinned them out here. Beautiful plants but you might end up with way more than you bargained for in no time flat and to top it off that Prickly Ash probably isn't a good pick for a small lot because it's well... prickly and your daughter is developmentally delayed. The Hazelnuts I have not found to be suckering but then maybe they haven't been in the ground long enough here to be suckering. Mine are also planted in shade. I want them for my Blue Jays as well as other critters. I also haven't noticed the Hazelnuts forming thickets in the wild but then I'm pretty far north and east from both of you. If he says they sucker and form thickets, they sucker and form thickets. Consider substituting the Hazelnut for the Ninebark. The Buttonbush tends to like really moist soil, at least that's been my experience. The Viburnum, Wahoo, and Winterberry are all wonderful picks. What about the Hydrangea they offer?

Hey you two, I wanted gray dogwood because I hear how the birds love the fruit. I'm not only trying to get indigenous to my country, but throwing in wildlife attractors also, not indigenous here. I will follow what you say, you guys know a lot more than I do....but I really want the gray dogwood :( Perhaps I could plant it on the side of house, more in the middle and that way it can spread? Wouldn't go into the neighbors yard that way? Make any sense? Or just in my mind? I thought I'd read that button bush could be in garden soil as well as in a very moist to wet area? Wrong? It's on my list with a question mark.

Kevin, can you d-mail me the directions to your house? I figured we'd come after we were at Possibility Place. I told them early afternoon, since it's kind of a drive and my husband works nights. And hopefully, the rain doesn't stick around that they're forcasting!

He knows a lot more than me. He asked me if I really wanted to plant Gray Dogwood about 4-5 years ago so fortunately I only planted a few and now I have a few more and next year I'll have even more. I'm going to block them by planting other plants near them and that should work just fine for me but I'm dealing with a little bit more space here and can afford to allocate more space if they need it. I suppose I should have left well enough alone but I, too, want the Gray Dogwood here for just the reasons you mentioned. There are other plants that are equally as beneficial to critters. You know what you need? You need some milkweed. There are some very attractive milkweeds out there.

Yes the Buttonbush can do just fine in regular garden soil. It just doesn't seem to do as well as if it had higher moisture.

The birds do love gray dogwood fruit. It is gone immediately upon ripening. Then again, they also love arrowwood Viburnum fruit, which is also native. You could do that one, and it spreads via suckers, but only in the immediate area, so you end up with 10' x 10' plants that produce enormous amounts of blue berries(once again, buy two if you go that route).

If you have time, I can take you a few miles from here and show you what these various plants are doing out in the wild.

This message was edited Apr 6, 2006 11:29 AM

Arrowwood is dentatum? Tell me which one you mean, I still can't keep them all straight. O.k. just checked....this one is different than Chicago Lustre and Autumn Jazz....(man I hope I got that right!). But do I buy two of the arrowwood they have? Or they have to be different ones? I would like very much to see what they do in the wild. Thank you! I forgot to look, did you send me a d-mail? I need directions...coming from Possibility Place I guess....I am so excited....you have no idea.....like a kid in a candy store.....

Chicago Lustre and Autumn Jazz are cultivars of Viburnum dentatum. Possibility Place probably sells seedlings which would be genetically different and thus able to successfully cross pollinate. Ask them.

Make another note to self....ask about viburnum arrowwood. Got it! I also meant to say I did plant milkweed last fall. I can't remember off hand which one it is. Has the rain hit you two yet?

Ok Terry---I have a big clump of Sambucus and a couple bare rooted suckers with not much root. They are tough. I also have a Viburnum dentatum for you. I am heading over to my neighbors to see if I can pluck out a Gray Dogwood for you as well. Stay tuned....

Oh Kevin! I don't know what to say.....thank you so much! What a kind thing to do for somebody you don't even know. This means more to me than you can even imagine.

Got one--not very big, maybe 3' tall, but the price is right! I have some bottlebrush buckeye seedlings, some river birch seedlings, etc. if you are interested. One should never leave a plant freak's house empty handed!

Am I interested? You ask if I'm interested? YES! 3 ft tall is better than no feet at all. And you are so right, the price is right! I was excited 30 minutes ago...how do I even explain how I feel now??? Anything you want to give me, will be so much appreciated! I'm not turning nothing down!