Hey Gang,
While I was surfing some links looking for a good moisture meter,
I came across some interesting stuff.
I found 2 products that got my interest up.
1 = Liquid Karma
2 = Monty's Joy Juice
Im wondering if anyone has any experience or knowledge of these products?
I am going to be giving them a try.
I also use, and advocate everyones using, Spray and Grow as well as Super Thrive.
I did find a really nice moisture meter too.
It is a 3way, it measures soil Moisture, Acidity, and has a light meter as well.
It was $9.99 about 5 bucks more than the Home Depot cheapie which doesnt last very long.
I am amazed at how wrong my perception of my soils moisture was.
I was ready to water several of my plumies,
But the meter said NO NO NO NO!!!
I am sooo glad I bought this!!
These are the links to the products I spoke of.
The Moisture Meter and Spray and Grow:
http://www.spray-n-growgardening.com/?keywords=moisture+meter&nd=list&return_nd=compost&issearch=1&data=merge&x=31&y=12
http://www.spray-n-growgardening.com/?nd=sngproducts
Liquid Karma and Monty's Joy Juice:
http://rosemania.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page16.html
You can also purchase Super Thrive here
But I needed some other things they didnt carry
So I ordered Tags, Cocowet, Bills and ST all from Jen @ MPG
http://www.mauiplumeriagardens.com/index.php?cPath=21
She included a free frankenPlumie Tab for me heh.... ya GA-3
If you're not familiar with this stuff...LEAVE IT BE!!
It is a growth horemone, properly used in different applications it can produce some interesting results.
Missused or abused it will produce some undesireable damage and growth.
I am planning on doing a comparison between specific plants.
One group will get the Liquid Karma and Monty's Joy Juice
The other group will recieve Spray and grow.
Both groups will be fed with Miracle Grow, Peter's and Bill's.
In both a liquid root feeding as well as a foliar spray mixed with Cocowet.
I will use a high nitrogen the first time I feed this spring.
The second and subsequent feedings will be high phosphorus for blooms.
I dont need a whole lot of growth, just a lil'!
Naturally I shall keep y'all posted!!
Links to some good products for your plumies
Michael,
Re: the spray and grow...only online? or at some retailers? I have the Superthrive (Walmart). Some of the rest of that sounds like happy hour cocktails...LOL
Thanks much!
Chantell
Good luck with your experiments, Michael! I look forward to hearing about your results.
I dunno whats available in your area.
I dont find it around here anywhere.
I find if im needing a few things and they can be found online
Ussually if the order is big enough, Shipping is free or cheap.
The convenience of not having to hunt down a product is worth a few $$ to me.
Most times I find things cheaper online anyway.
Oh I shall keep ya'll posted when the 'Cocktail Hour' begins!..... heh...... hiccup**....
well along with spray - n - grow... super thrive .. another of my don't be without products is messenger... http://www.edenbio.com/usa/agriproducts/?m=1
I use it as the spray.. and love it in their plant food... also... keeps them healthy and flowering ...
another of my favorites for health..is spraying with a seaweed concentrate.. I love the MaxiCrop...
http://www.maxicrop.com/pages/products_main.html
good flowering ... Gordon
Thanks!!
Thanks, Gordon! It's good to see you over here. I am looking forward to your rooftop plumie blooms against the skyline of New York.
I will be watching your experiments!
I discovered something last summer, that I am going to apply to my full grown plumerias I am about to plant next week. I had/have been experimenting with putting Lava Sand in my Brugs last summer at about the same time a friend of mine gave me a bunch of aztec gold plumeria seeds, :
Thinking to myself :Plumerias + Hawaii = alot of lava soil...So I put lava sand in the mix, and I could not believe a.) the propagation rate was 100 percent (never happened before) b. the growth rate was tripled my past experiences growing from seed. (Not that I/m any pro) - At the time, all of my full grown plumerias were already planted, so I am eager to see what response adult plumerias will have.
I buy the lava sand in bags like potting soil at a local garden store here. It is red in color. I mix in a few handfuls in with the potting or garden soil I am using. From what I researched about lava sand or lava clay was from Europe. The studies indicated that the lava facilitates a better absorption rate of nutrients by the plants roots. - yet allowing good drainage.
Just thought I had to share that-- everyone probably already knows this-- ! I couldn/t figure out why the seedlings were doing so well, till I read about plumerias loving the lava soil.
Rj
Interesting, Rj! I look forward to hearing your results too. It sounds like you've had some good results already. One grower here in Southern California, Jack of Kimi's Plumerias, says that he and other growers are moving away from sand in their mixes because it compacts when it gets wet, which, I guess, is not a good thing. You may want to watch for this compacting, but if it is mixed with your potting soil, I don't see how it could compact really. Maybe it might compact if it is used as the only potting agent. I've heard of people mixing in lava rocks for the added benefit of good drainage. I haven't tried that yet.
I wish I could find the lava sand Rj. I do have a local source for green sand here.
Clare.. well thanks.. I've been about here for years.. albeit in a limited manner... but posting pictures and such... I'm here getting my plumeria fix as it were ... as I'm locked out of all of my Yahoo groups... due to regestering with Flickr... the great free photo posting.. photo site recently taken over by Yahoo..I registered the other day using my Yahoo name and password.. and since then have been locked out of the groups I've been visiting for 5 years.. and can't get it back.. and have gotten no help from them as to what to do or why it happened.. they have alot of plumeria photos there ... some 4000 or so as I remember ...
Rj.. and back on topic almost... I love and use Lava also... it's not as much for drainage.. as there are lots of things that will help out there.. like the 145* F roof temps I grow my plumerias on... but the lava has paramagnetic properties that few other addatives have.. this paramagnetic aspect is what it is that causes the better uptake of nutrients you mentioned with lava.. I get my lava in a producet..also from the fine folks a Spray - n - Grow .. expencive but a little goes a long way.. and it isn't discipated with age ..
http://www.spray-n-growgardening.com/?key=VOL7&html=full&data=data&keywords=dept_soil
the link is both lines above... Paramagnetic forces are little understood... but are real... and is an energy system/field around the earth... here's a few paramagnetic links... the second is a wonderful book discussed in the first article
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=127
now for Philip Callahans wonderful Paramagnetism book
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/102-3917013-1315333?url=index%3Dstripbooks%3Arelevance-above&field-keywords=++paramagnetism&Go.x=15&Go.y=13
I saw Plumerias growing in only lava rock... chunks thrown out of the volcano in Nicaragua... and doing real well... dispite areal high acid air poluition and execive amounts of CO2 and sulpheric acids... the plumerias grow as the last plants up the side of the volcano where no other tree or plant might survive.. and are growing in softball sized lava hunks... and in an area where there are great excessive temperatures of the root zone... from the open lave pit in the volcanos crator below.... and the heat of growing in a black rock medium in the hot clime of Nicaragua...
well more a bit later there .. and if I'm really pressured..ha ha ha..... just a hint perhaps... I'll send out pictures from last years plumeria aganst the Manhatten skyline... or pictures of them blooming now inside.. looking out the window at it .. now that it's spring and 25*F outside... Gordon
Hi Gordon! I actually meant that I am glad to see you over here at the plumie forum. I've seen your beautiful pics in other forums. I even remember seeing your pics way back in my GardenWeb days! LOL! That does seem like a long time ago. I'm sorry that you are locked out of Yahoo. I hope that can be fixed. Wow, I've got to check out those 4000 photos. Can you register again under a different but similar name? That is a real bummer. I can email people for you, if you like, to try to get some help on this matter if you are unable to send emails to them. Maybe Scott or Ken can help? Have you tried unregistering with Flickr? I wish I could help you.
Great picture, Gordon. That is very interesting about the lava sand and lava rock and plumerias growing in Nicaragua. Scott just posted some pictures from there too today over at Pals. Yes, please post your pictures from last year and from this year. We would love to see them. Please, please, please? Maybe you can start a new thread so we can leave this one about supplements, additives, etc. Whatever you would like.
Aahh..thanks Gordon, it has taken me almost a year to get to this point, with our really knowing the mechanics of the lava soil -additive- (smile). When I was refering to the drainage, I meant that it was a bonus - that it still allows for the needed well drained soil. It has been a trial of hit and miss as far as how much to add at what times of the year. For example I think there is a temperature at which point the properties of lava will dry out quickly, or not. (like being on your jungle rooftop) I have noticed that at about 75- 80 degrees, the soil with lava sand added to it dries out very quickly, but the same pot will stay pretty damp under 75 degrees. - and perhaps that is why some people stopped using it, because of compacting the soil. From my experimentation, I use less during the winter a bit more in the summer and am still tweaking it. I have also extended the usage into most of my tropicals, and in some of my garden beds. When you think of it, most tropical regions have a high volcanic soil composition. Thanks for those links, as it may offer some alternatives. I/m very happy to talk to someone else that is using it. What proportions do you use?
Maelstrrom, I am very interested in what you think of that water meter...it looked pretty cool.
Kell, would you like me to pack a couple bags of sand and fly out there for happy hour?
Rj
rj
Rj,
I was searching the better part of the day for lava sand...finally gave up and just book marked the link you listed above. Go visit Kell on the west coast and then hit the east coast with your "carry on bags" of lava sand...we can take some up to Michael and....yeah...you all guessed it...have some Steak -n- cheese...one way mind I have sometimes...LOL
Clares gonna come too...right Clare? Then we'll all take that cruise down to the carribean!!! Yeah!!!
Chantell
This message was edited Mar 21, 2006 7:54 PM
Yes, I hear it is difficult to find. Not to mention if you did find it online, the bags are 40 lbs and heavier if the sand is wet. I would look in the phone book- look for a local store that sells bulk items for horses, goats chickens and fertilzers. I think they call them feed stores.. The store I buy mine from - is a store dedicated to fertilzers . Did you try one of Gordons links? Also, some farm supply stores? If they dont - perhaps they will order by request. I have been meaning to go look at the bag..I think it is by green sand...I have tried googling that- but nothing comes up.
Okay, I will be come the official lava sand man...lol- they will wonder if its gold in my suitcases.
i have been reading this thread and an idea pop in my head. this needs a little elbow grease.
if not mistaken, if u buy red lava rock [used in barbequeing]. the little red lava rocks that sells cheap and are suppose to make the regular charcoal last longer. now, if lava rock is pounded with the aid of a hammer will disintergrate. after which u can add into ur potting soil. lava rock are in the barbeque section of either in Walmart or Home Depot. these lava rocks are far cheaper and more available. jmo.... ma vie
OR....lava rock is usually in the rocks section at home depot-
Here is a web site, that is probably suited to mail order and has even more goodies in it, and is much less weight to mail around. I have been meaning to try it- but have not yet.
http://www.earthplusproducts.com/html/whatis.htm
Rj
OH...and look what I found...I mentioned above putting the seeds in the lava soil...I/d forgotten I actually had the sense to do a comparison of plumeria seeds with lava soil and one without..and take a picture of it..(doesn/t do much good when I forget though huh?).
Here is the comparison- I think they are at a couple of months in the photo. The one on the left is with out the lava sand, right is with.
Clare... well lgood Idea... I'll start a thread about growing in the north and still getting flowers and quick blooms from seedlings... of something to give a reason for my photos... Yes.. Scott posted some photos.. they were more of the series I showed here of the Nicaraguan volcanos.. and there are mor besides as well.. and alot of volcano backgroung for this particular place.. quite unique systems in play there... and the plumeria are the ones to grow up furthest up twards the crator rim.. OH thanks for the tips.. but I'm now reinstated in Yahoo... they finally sent me a link to clear it up...
Rj .. well nice looking seedlings.. to give a good trial they should both be in the same type of pot though... the clay pot will dry out real fast.. and have more air to the roots... this is one of my hot roof secrets... keep the plants cycleing from wet to dry as fast and as often as possible... this spurs growth in a grand fashon... it's like compacting a week of drying out into a day or so... Keep up the good work... and keep the pictures comming ..
Gordon
Rj & others:
Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7743888421&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2F%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D7743888421%26fvi%3D1
What do you all think about Ma vie's idea?
Is pumice a product of Lava? Anyone know? I've been adding pumice to my Plummie soil mixture.
Pumice Rock is ur other alternative. i used to used Pumice Rock when i had plenty of rare cacti and succulent. here are some link: http://volcano.und.nodak.edu/vwdocs/vwlessons/lessons/Slideshow/Igrocks/Igrock13.html, http://saltthesandbox.org/rocks/pumice.htm http://www.seabean.com/ThingsThatFloat/pumice/index.htm
only source i know it is --> http://www.whitneyfarms.com/products/containergarden.shtml
way back in the 90's there was a local source in Los Angeles, i used to buy 3 cu ft bag for $18.00
lately i ask a local nursery in my area to get me some pumice rock @ Whitney Farms, 4 qt bag cost me $2.49 a bag. it is ur preference how much of it u need, u can ask ur local nursery supplier to order for u.
Pumice Rock is nice to add in the potting mix cuz it absorbs nutrient when the soil is watered and supply the root system of the nutrient,. at the same time, it aerates the plant's roots too.
edited to add another source: http://www.orchidobsession.com/barordfor.htm
This message was edited Mar 22, 2006 12:02 AM
Rj, I think we should all head for Hawaii for happy hour and then the next day we can dig our own lava rck. LOL
Rj, can you post a pictures of your lava sand bag?
So yours is made by Greensand? I wonder if that is the same company that makes the greensand I just bought.
So I wonder if pumice would do the same?
Sorry folks, double post. See below.
This message was edited Mar 22, 2006 8:15 AM
Very interesting thread, folks. The only thing that I wonder, if anyone knows, is if the lava rock that you buy for barbequing is treated with any chemicals. Anyone know? I wouldn't hesitate to use bags of stuff found in the garden department, but I would if it was located in other departments.
Chantell, a cruise down to the Carribean sounds wonderful!
Yes, pumice is great for drainage and doesn't rise to the top of the soil like Perlite does. They have bags of pumice at GreenThumb/Green Arrow Nurseries here and other nurseries as well. I don't think Home Depot carries pumice here.
Kell, great idea!
Gordon, I'm glad your Yahoo troubles are fixed. That is a lovely picture! Thanks for the info about the Nicaraguan plumies. That is fascinating:-) I'm looking forward to seeing more of your pics.
Great-looking seedlings there, Rj. I agree with Gordon that the clay container may offer an advantage, and it is also bigger than the other container, and I have noticed that the more room you give seedlings to grow, the faster they will grow bigger. That is not to say that the sand isn't helpful in growth. It probably is helpful.
Clare and Gordon..I noticed that too- not too scientific.
Personally - I would not use anything made for a barbeque in my garden plants. As a matter off fact when I use lava stones (because they are lighter) for drainage rocks in the bottom of the pots, I wash them off thouroughly. I believe pumice is from a volcano- right ?
Ma vie..wow...where were you when we had a 4 month long discussion in the brug forum last spring about lava..! Thankyou for those links..!
Kell- Yes..I was out with my camera to take a pict of the bag today...and was distracted by everything...but I do remember that the name is greensense...not greensand like I previously said. I will try and get a photo tomorrow as I am at work now. ooh..now I think I left my camera outside..
I say we buy our own little pacific volcanic Island...
Rj,
last year was a very bad year for me, too many health issues that led to so many hospitalization, which also led to.... quiet as it was kept i was homeless from June thru Dec. 2005. i have no access to the internet until recently. due to those unfortunate incidents, i lost the great majority of my plants!
at the moment, since i am free so to speak, i have been "cleaning" my accumulated bookmarks into categories, sub-categories and folders, not to mention updating those bookmarks/favorites. now it is so easy to find the right link for recommendation.
i would not worry about the lava rock - used for barbequing. i had in the past 'experimented using them in my plants. i do not believe there are any chemicals incorporated into them. in fact, my plants trived when i applied them to some tropical plants - the red lava rocks did tremendously good for my plants. i look at it this way, if i can use the red lava rock to cook my food, i can also use them to grow plants i grow either for food consumption or ornamental purposes.
if available to my area, my main preference of soil additive would be pumice and red lava rocks over perlite or other non organic materials.
i do not know if some of u are aware i am originally from the Philippines Islands... where most of our soil have some tint of volcanic soil. that is, to the areas not near any active or inactive volcanos. one of the major reason why tropical plants are very abundant, plus the temperature and humidity help grow luscious and abundant tropical plants.
Oh- I wish I could have been there to take care of your plants and help you out- I hope you are doing better now.
You make a good point about the bbq rocks. You mix the lava rocks in your soil? Sounds like a great idea...do you break them up some to make them smaller?
I relate to where you are from, I grew up in Liberia West Africa, which is also high in volcanic and iron ore composition and features some of the most beautiful tropical jungles. I lived in Yekepa, way up in the bush, and the jungle was literally my back yard. This of course has influenced my gardening today, and landscaping in a very jungle type enviornment. I love walking into my back yard, and everything is bigger than I am, towering tropicals - just like the jungle. My true calling would have been a botanist/ observing from the jungle floors to the tree tops animals and plant life. I did on one occasion in The Gambia meet Jane Goodall who was at the game reserve oberving chimpanzees.
Rj and others who are reading this thread: pls. let it be known that i have no intention/reason of hijacking this thread. if u wish to touch basis with me u can either dmail me or reach my email mavierose@yahoo.com i was merely responding to question/s ask of me.
the red lava rock or bbq rock are small, not big like a charcoal brickets. in fact much smaller than a bricket. using bbq rocks depends on the plant i apply them too. some i use them as is, others i had to pound or break up with a mallet to nearly sand consistency.
Rj am glad to know that i am not the only one who lived and experienced the prestine virgin forest jungle. but oh those were the days of paradise not known to a lot of people.
MavieRose,
Hijacking is fine. ;)
So long as its productive LOL!!
Keep the info train rolling right here!!
Its all gold dahlin' ;)
I will be trying the messenger also.
Jack Morgan reccomends it highly.
I like the idea of lava rock or pumice.
Im tired of the perlite floating up LOL!!
I dont know if I can get it here though.
We shall see!!
So far my babies are very happy so itll be next year before I repot em.
Okay - the lava rocks I have available here are for landscaping and around an inch thick and about as long - I think I would mabe break mine up a bit then. Thanks for those tips-
Does anyone use the Plumeria food? Do Plumerias like to be dried out by the end of the day? I am thinking I have been keeping mine too wet in the past.
Plumie food specifically?
I use Peters, Miracle grow, Bills, SnG ST etc... etc...
Just read the ingredients and compare it to whatever you are used to using for food.
Yes - I use Nutri - Star granules...designed for Plumerias- wonder if it makes a difference or not.
in the good old days when income was coming in great [meaning my younger days], a small pot of orchid for $200.00 is merely a drop in the bucket. as i have reached retirement age, where very limited income is the issue: i do not have the money to splurge on expensive non organic fertilizers [the very reason why i do lots of researches and experiments on what is affordable on my limited budget.] all plants i had grown, were solely dependent on alfalfa pellets, steer manure and dried seaweeds i buy from the oriental market to feed plants that some DG members kindly shared with me in the past. i doubt very much if plants have the choice of being picky as to what they are being fed. i guess the only thing to consider or reconsider is the natural growth of said plant/s from their native habitat. jmo... ma vie
here is a super lengthy thread i posted in the brug forum that is filled with info and links to support the use of above plant nutrients i posted above http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/433894/ if u do not have the patience, i suggest to take notes on what appeal to u as u read the thread. better yet cut and paste notes that is relevant to u.
Excellent, thankyou....we had a similar thread on brugs that was so long it/s in 2 parts..so I understand- I look forward to reading it. I do use alfalfa pellets infused with seaweed, cotton seed and fish emulsion- but not in everything - I am cautious to add the same thing to everything.
Fish emulsion and Bat-Guana(?) (POO) works great but stinky!!!
I have a small plot and with my windows open most of the season I dont wanna smell it!!
Rj, that is so cool about where you used to live and seeing Jane Goodall. That must have been wonderful. Someone posted a plumie that they obtained in The Gambia here last year and had pictures of huge plumeria trees. I didn't realize that they made Nutri-Star granules designed for plumies. That's great. Rj, plumies love water as long as they have good drainage. They don't like to sit it water, and they don't like to be wet and cold, but during the summer, I water every day, and they love it. When it is windy, I have to water twice a day.
Michael, I did purchase Liquid Karma on my last purchase from Rosemania.com so I'll be using it to along with a bunch of other stuff that I am trying. I'm very non-scientific about it though. If I get too caught up in record keeping, then the fun goes right out the window so I'm just trying stuff to see what happens. I have heard good things about Messenger too, but the last time I checked, it was fairly expensive so I'm using other things for now.
Michael, get this: a Leela seedling sown on Nov. 1st has an inflo. Isn't that wild? I'm sure it will be a dud, and I didn't get a picture of it, but I will if it keeps growing.
KOOL!!
I had so many seedling inflos...
All were duds...
But I have lots of branches now!!
WOO-HO!!
IT was cool, and yes...I was all excited as I saw the same posting of that plumeria in The Gambia. It is a poplular Scandanavian sun spot to go to.
Good to know about the water...It seemed like I was getting some mixed signals on that. Yes Nutri star has a whole line of fertilzer designed for bougenvilla, hibiscus, plumeria etc.
But like Ma vie says-- if there is no need to buy certain designer things - when I might already have the stuff in stock.
My relandscaping of the front beds included - alfalfa pellets with fish emulsion, mollasses, seaweed and cottonseed, bat guano, lots of mulch and leaves, and volcanic sand.
Which I was intending to repeat on another bed for the plumerias. I want a whole section dedicated to Plumerias.